Bad glide on classic skis

I am new to waxable classics this year and used them for the first
time at the Canadian Ski Marathon and the Keskinada. I seem to be
able to wax well for a decent kick (at least I was able to get up the
hills fairly well) but at the Keski my glide was poor after the first
10K or so. Previously, on the long downhills I found myself jumping
out of the tracks when I used my waxless -- at fast speeds I lost my
nerve. But this year the same tracks were never scary -- and I doubt
that it was because I had finally become a dare-devil downhill skier.
Ha! I simply never got to wicked speeds on the downhills this
year.

Comparing myself to others, in the first 10K I was keeping up well or
passing on the downhills. After that, I continued to lose ground,
though still did well climbing.

I used Toko Dibloc red in the glide zones, and a mix of VR40 over VR30
on top of a binder in the kick zone. Temps got warm -- upper 20s
Fahrenheit.

Any suggestions? Perhaps I put too many layers of kick wax on and the
skis dragged? The kick wax was too cold/warm? Sometimes it seemed
like snow was balling up under the ski. I brushed them off once.

There were a few white spots on the glide zones after the race, but
that didn't seem too unusual for a long race on newer skis. Or is
it?

As for fit, the skis are new as of December and were fitted by a
reputable shop.

Thanks for input!
Mary

mmm. tough one, sounds like you had the kick wax selection. In my
option, diabloc red isn't really fast, but it shouldn't have been
slow.

Have you gotten alot of K on the skis since you bought them or have
you gotten them ground from a local shop? Depending on the machine,
it can take from 0-300Km before the skis are fast.

Did you get your kick zone marked? Usually shops will draw a line on
the ski telling you where to wax.

how are your corking skills? After you corked, was the kick wax
smooth or did it have ridges?


byrnes-out


On Feb 28, 12:00 pm, wrote:
I am new to waxable classics this year and used them for the first
time at the Canadian Ski Marathon and the Keskinada. I seem to be
able to wax well for a decent kick (at least I was able to get up the
hills fairly well) but at the Keski my glide was poor after the first
10K or so. Previously, on the long downhills I found myself jumping
out of the tracks when I used my waxless -- at fast speeds I lost my
nerve. But this year the same tracks were never scary -- and I doubt
that it was because I had finally become a dare-devil downhill skier.
Ha! I simply never got to wicked speeds on the downhills this
year.

Comparing myself to others, in the first 10K I was keeping up well or
passing on the downhills. After that, I continued to lose ground,
though still did well climbing.

I used Toko Dibloc red in the glide zones, and a mix of VR40 over VR30
on top of a binder in the kick zone. Temps got warm -- upper 20s
Fahrenheit.

Any suggestions? Perhaps I put too many layers of kick wax on and the
skis dragged? The kick wax was too cold/warm? Sometimes it seemed
like snow was balling up under the ski. I brushed them off once.

There were a few white spots on the glide zones after the race, but
that didn't seem too unusual for a long race on newer skis. Or is
it?

As for fit, the skis are new as of December and were fitted by a
reputable shop.

Thanks for input!
Mary

Have you gotten alot of K on the skis since you bought them or have
you gotten them ground from a local shop? Depending on the machine,
it can take from 0-300Km before the skis are fast.

Not a lot of time on them, since we haven't had much snow. I've been
ironing in warm wax, but perhaps they simply need more.


Did you get your kick zone marked? Usually shops will draw a line on
the ski telling you where to wax.

Yes, I'm marked for hard waxes and kllister

how are your corking skills? After you corked, was the kick wax
smooth or did it have ridges?

I think I am corking ok, but perhaps putting on more than is
necessary, so it takes a bit to get the wax smooth.

Thanks for the reply. Perhaps I just need to get more warm wax ironed
in,
Mary

On Feb 28, 6:42 pm, wrote:
Have you gotten alot of K on the skis since you bought them or have
you gotten them ground from a local shop? Depending on the machine,
it can take from 0-300Km before the skis are fast.

Not a lot of time on them, since we haven't had much snow. I've been
ironing in warm wax, but perhaps they simply need more.



Did you get your kick zone marked? Usually shops will draw a line on
the ski telling you where to wax.

Yes, I'm marked for hard waxes and kllister

how are your corking skills? After you corked, was the kick wax
smooth or did it have ridges?

I think I am corking ok, but perhaps putting on more than is
necessary, so it takes a bit to get the wax smooth.

Thanks for the reply. Perhaps I just need to get more warm wax ironed
in,
Mary

"
Thanks for the reply. Perhaps I just need to get more warm wax ironed
in,
"
I agree with the comment below (RM), you need to iron in some very
hard wax into a newer pair of skis. In other words you need to harden
the base.

Do this once a year....
Get some cheap wax for temps below 15F.
Wax the skis with the cold wax
Wax the skis with the warm wax
do the previous two step until... forever...


Also, instead of using the binder right up to the end of the kick
zone, go in about inch on either side. In general, be very
conservative with the binder, and pretty conservative with other kick
wax. You can easily add kick wax, but removal is tricky.

GOOD LUCK!!!

Do this once a year....
Get some cheap wax for temps below 15F.
Wax the skis with the cold wax
Wax the skis with the warm wax
do the previous two step until... forever...

Looks like a good plan for the summer.


Also, instead of using the binder right up to the end of the kick
zone, go in about inch on either side. In general, be very
conservative with the binder, and pretty conservative with other kick
wax. You can easily add kick wax, but removal is tricky.

I have binder ironed in through the full kick zone. I'll try cleaning
it out and pairing it down a bit. Thanks for the suggestions.

Mary

A very good instructional page for glide waxing is Zach Caldwell's
post-grind instructions at www.engineeredtuning.net, pdf link at bottom
of the page. Assume your skis have been recently ground and start with
saturation and work on through. You can do these in a day or two
while doing other things, since the saturation step doesn't require
complete rewaxing each time.

rm

wrote:


Do this once a year....
Get some cheap wax for temps below 15F.
Wax the skis with the cold wax
Wax the skis with the warm wax
do the previous two step until... forever...

Looks like a good plan for the summer.


Also, instead of using the binder right up to the end of the kick
zone, go in about inch on either side. In general, be very
conservative with the binder, and pretty conservative with other kick
wax. You can easily add kick wax, but removal is tricky.

I have binder ironed in through the full kick zone. I'll try cleaning
it out and pairing it down a bit. Thanks for the suggestions.

Mary

First thing that comes to mind is durability of your glide wax.
Normally, kick wax wears and so glide improves over time. What did
you do to prepare glide zones?

rm

wrote:

I am new to waxable classics this year and used them for the first
time at the Canadian Ski Marathon and the Keskinada. I seem to be
able to wax well for a decent kick (at least I was able to get up the
hills fairly well) but at the Keski my glide was poor after the first
10K or so.

On Feb 28, 10:21 am, wrote:
First thing that comes to mind is durability of your glide wax.
Normally, kick wax wears and so glide improves over time. What did
you do to prepare glide zones?

rm



wrote:
I am new to waxable classics this year and used them for the first
time at the Canadian Ski Marathon and the Keskinada. I seem to be
able to wax well for a decent kick (at least I was able to get up the
hills fairly well) but at the Keski my glide was poor after the first
10K or so. - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What would change over time on striding skis is either the glide wax
wears off or the kick wax wears off, or snow conditions change. In my
humble experience, glide wax wearing might slow the skis down a
little, but it's not something that would make a huge difference.

As rm said, usually wearing kick wax results in decreased kick and
better glide.

But, I recently experienced decreased glide during a 30 K classic
training ski. I think it was caused by cold temp kick wax wearing off
down to the binder.

I had prepped by:

removing all kick wax (with solvent)
roughing kick zone with sand paper
heating in a thin layer of binder and corking after cooled
applying 4-5 layers of wax of the day, which was in the green-blue
range (pretty cold).

I know from previous experience that 4-5 layers of kick wax won't last
me 30 K - I had intended to only go 15 or so when I started. The skis
worked really well for 12-20 k: good grip and excellent glide compared
to the people I was skiing with.

I am absolutely positive that my glide decreased as I wore through the
cold temp kick wax and got down to the binder. I was doing fine with
my partners going up hill, but my downhill glide decreased
dramatically after about 20 km.

I could see this when I looked at the skis afterwards.

I am absolutely positive that my glide decreased as I wore through the
cold temp kick wax and got down to the binder. I was doing fine with
my partners going up hill, but my downhill glide decreased
dramatically after about 20 km.


This sounds like my experience. I could go uphill fine -- often
passing others. But going down I was slow as molasses. Thanks for
the reply.

On Feb 28, 1:21 pm, wrote:
First thing that comes to mind is durability of your glide wax.
Normally, kick wax wears and so glide improves over time. What did
you do to prepare glide zones?


I did what I do for skate skis -- ironed in a few layers of yellow
when I got them and then just a couple of layers of wax appropriate
for the day. As I noted to the last reply, perhaps I simply need to
iron in more warm wax.

Thanks for your response!