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trying to determine a good board for my needs
I'm a new boarder (I've only been a couple times), but I think I know
what sort of riding I want to do. I'm more interested in freeride then anything else. I am a rather large fellow: 6'3" 220lb and I got some solomon boots 11 1/2. My weight floats a bit depending on how busy I am at work, but I generally range between 190-220lb. So I'm trying to determine what boards I should try to demo. thanks, --Matt |
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wrote: I'm a new boarder (I've only been a couple times), but I think I know what sort of riding I want to do. I'm more interested in freeride then anything else. I am a rather large fellow: 6'3" 220lb and I got some solomon boots 11 1/2. My weight floats a bit depending on how busy I am at work, but I generally range between 190-220lb. So I'm trying to determine what boards I should try to demo. thanks, --Matt Hey Matt... based on what you've said - I'm going to get right to the point and suggest that you get a Donek Wide or Sasquatch snowboard in the 160-165cm range. Donek is a very small Colorado-based company that turns out exceptionally good high-end snowboards. If you do a search online on this newsgroup, you will see it mentioned a LOT of times by myself and several other people who have ridden their boards. All of us try to promote the company because "word of mouth" and a few team freestyle riders and alpine racers are their only form of advertisement. You can check them out at www.donek.com. The Incline/Wide/Sasquatch line is one of the best freeride boards in existence. Handmade with high quality materials, it has an excellent shape for carving freeriding, with a stiffness that will easily support your weight even up to 220 lbs. If you want to zip in through the trees, I would recommend getting the shorter/less stiff models like a 162 Sasquatch, definitely get the Sasquatch (the wideset model for "big feet") or at least a Wide 165 as well if you ride deep powder a lot as it will float better (you are borderline in your boot size so you could do either one). By now you probably are like... "whoa, this thing probably costs a fortune" but no, the Wide sell for $370 and the Sasquatch goes for $380. The difference being that since they tend to make the board when you order it, they don't have much inventory around so you aren't likely to find one on a spring clearance sale. , but I recently saw a used Wide 165 on sale on Catek.com's forum - you might be able to score one for even cheaper. ======= From Catek.com forum ============================================= For the ultimate soft boot setup, I am considering selling Donek 165 Wide, Black tope sheet and Bottom with Red Logo, one chip in Topsheet, perfect base. Let me kn ow if there is any interest. No pictures until I get back in a few days- ================================================== ======================== More info: There are a ton of other companies, boards, etc... but I'm trying to keep this post relatively short - ask me if you have questions or want more board suggestions. For more information you can search this newsgroup using www.dejanews.com. You can also search www.freecarve.com as well. Some people here like to frequent an alpine snowboard community at www.bomberonline.com, but I can tell you what the people there will likely suggest - get hardboots, Bomber TD2 bindings, and a BX/All-Mtn board. Now while I think this is a perfectly good suggestion, I'm not to keen on how some of them driving it into your skull like a railroad spike (I'm exaggerating). Of course if what I just said intrigues you AND you've have sever footpain from softboots... then by all means check out the site... there is a a TON of information and people there waiting for you. |
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It's that type of customer service ontop of a great board for
a good price that makes Donek the first company many people suggest. I'll second lonerider's Donek suggestion and for mostly the same reasons. Their Freeride series is IMHO a great choice for a heavier rider such as yourself, the boards will support your weight and handle crisply. I weigh 195 and ride a Wide 161 with soft boots and an Axis 172 with hard boots, and I have an old Incline 168 that I use as a rock board. Just great stuff all around. My first Donek's stability helped me gain the confidence to push through the "Terminal Intermediate" barrier and start riding a lot better. It also was my "gateway board" in to carving and later hardbooting. Mike T |
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Mike T wrote: I'll second lonerider's Donek suggestion and for mostly the same reasons. Count me in to... I'm 6'2", 210, with a size 10.5 foot. I ride the Donek Wide 165 and really like it for powder, bombing groomers, and general freeriding with moguls and a few jumps thrown in here and there. -Dave |
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There certainly seems to be a vocal group of supporters here. I am
feeling sorely tempted. I wish there was more of this season left so I could do the try it to see if I like it. I guess it will depend on if I the snow holds up a bit longer. Thanks for the advice guys. --Matt |
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Matt wrote: There certainly seems to be a vocal group of supporters here. I am feeling sorely tempted. One thing to keep in mind that it's a pretty stiff board and is in its element when cruising at a decent clip. As a beginner, I think it might challenge you a bit at first as compared to the (likely floppy) rental boards, but in the end you'll like it. BTW, I learned about 8 years ago on a K2 Eldorado 169 (I weighed about 40 lbs more than my current 210) and have stayed with stiff, freeride boards since then (a Ride Timeless '67 and then the Donek Wide '65). The Donek Phoenix might be more your style, though the Wide is a great deal at $100 less than the Phoenix. My advice would be to perhaps find a board that suits you on closeout this year, or wait until next season and see if you can demo a Donek. Personally, I like to buy my gear at the start of the season. There are some modest early-season deals and you get to enjoy your gear right then and there. End of season deals can be great, but availability of size and models really dwindle and you don't get to really use the gear until next season. My two cents. -Dave |
#8
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So the questions just keep coming for me, I am seriously considering
ordering the Donek, but I have few more questions. My boots are Solomon symbios. This is a pretty soft boot, but I got them because they are really confortable. I have recently demoed a couple of boards: 163 Burton custom, and the 163 burton canyon. The custom felt like it might have been a bit to soft, and the canyon definitely seemed a bit loose, but I was happy with the fact that I could easily push out the tail to absorb some speed. I was also frustrated by the fact that I was really nervous riding flat because both of these boards seemed to easily get shifted when which caused me a few nasty falls. I'm hoping you guys can help me figure out whether or not the Donek will work for me. My second question is about binding. Currently, I can't rock up onto my board when I fall heel side, and If I have to sit down to strap in then I need to flip over to toe side so I can stand up. These things make the flow like binding systems really attractive to me, but I wonder if they will work well with my boots, and possible board choice of Donek? If not the flows what do people recommend? I find all the information a bit to much, and very contradictory. So please if you can help me answer my questions I would be very grateful. thanks, --Matt |
#9
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Hi again Matt. I will be giving you a lot of information very quickly,
so feel free to ask questions should you get confused. I will summarize my points to start and then follow up with some of background information that guides my opinions. I can't really solve the conflicting advice thing, but for the most part everything I sat is well accepted and a moderate viewpoint. Boots - soft-flex boots maybe comfortable like slippers, but aren't good for performance like hiking boots - stiff-flex boots give you performance, but you need spend much more time finding a boot that fits you perfectly, otherwise it won't be very comfortable - always size down for boots, do not settle for an "ok" fit - you don't need to go to super-stiff boots immediately, but you should consider moving up to a medium stiffness boot soon Board - you need a board of sufficient stiffness for you weight - longer boards within a particular board model line tend to be stiffer - Burton/Forum models are very soft, so for you, you would need to ride the longer models available (longer models are difficult for novices to handle) - Salomon, Donek, and Palmer have stiffer models made for bigger, heavier riders - stiffer models tend to be slightly less forgiving of bad technique, so you don't want to go too stiff either when starting out. - that being said, some of your complaints are unrelated to the board and more just because you are still learning Bindings - again, you main complaints with your bindings (about strapping in heelside and getting up on toeside) are because you are still learning. - while I wouldn't get them to cover a personal techinque flaw, FLOW bindings are more convenient and a lot of people like them - other bindings bands that have a good price/performance ratio at Ride, Salomon and Technine - bring your boots to the store make sure you boots fit well (Salomon boots occasionally don't mesh well with Burton bindings I've found). Matt wrote: So the questions just keep coming for me, I am seriously considering ordering the Donek, but I have few more questions. My boots are Solomon symbios. This is a pretty soft boot, but I got them because they are really confortable. I have recently demoed a couple of boards: 163 I like the stiff models in the Salomon lines (Dialogue, Synapse, Malamute) and I haven't tried the Simbio, but I know it's on the lower end of the line. Yes they are very comfortable, but it is very easy to be comfortable in a soft-flexing boot, it's like wearing slippers... but you don't want to run a marathon or go hiking in slippers. The problem is that in order for a stiff boot to feel comfortable, it has to fit you perfectly, otherwise it will pinch and pressure you all over the place. Stiffer boots tend to be more expensive, so I understand that you might not want to buy them when you are starting out... but they are the most important piece of equipment - high performing bindings and boards are worthless if you have this super floppy, super loose pair of comfy boots where you foot and shin can slide around inside without that energy being transferred to the rest of the gear. As a compromise, I just suggest that each time you buy a new pair of boots, slowly get a higher end, stiffer pair of boots (that fit perfectly!) until you are at least in the medium-high stiffness range. Super-stiff boots give you more performance, but there a tradeoff point where you just might not want that stiff a boot. However, you would really need to search and try hard to find a boot that I would say would be too stiff in general (especially at your size and weight). Snowboard boots are made for snowboarding, not for walking, be prepared to walk a little funny in them, if you can walk completely normally in a pair of boots (instead of slightly on your heelsde), they aren't going to treat you well when snowboarding. A good fitting boot trumphs all other concerns - if the boot doesn't fit you calf, ankle, instep, toes just right... you are going to pay for it on the slopes (more so with stiff boots). So when you do decide to upgrade your boots, much sure that you have the smallest boot you can physically wear that is still not uncomfortable. This is because the boot liners will expand half to fullsize after 5-7 days of use as it sort of molds to your foot. US shoe sizes vary a lot so have you foot measured in centimeters as most snowboard boots will use this length as their sizing index. This will often leave you with a much smaller size boot (like 1-2 size smaller) than your sneaker size. The boots downright cozy, your toes touching the tips of the boots, but not curling like a glove with no truly uncomfortable pressure points. Salomon, ThirtyTwo, and some other brands make boots with heat-moldable liners that are great for this. Burton custom, and the 163 burton canyon. The custom felt like it might have been a bit to soft, and the canyon definitely seemed a bit loose, but I was happy with the fact that I could easily push out the tail to absorb some speed. I was also frustrated by the fact that I was really nervous riding flat because both of these boards seemed to easily get shifted when which caused me a few nasty falls. I'm hoping you guys can help me figure out whether or not the Donek will work for me. Yes, the Custom is a soft board and Canyon is wide and not very torsionally rigid. I wouldn't recommend either for you... actually. I wouldn't recommend ANYTHING in the Burton lineup and you are just beyond the maximum recommended weight for all of their boards except for the Baron 172 and the Triumph 173 and then you are at the very limit of the range (check the Burton website). Longer board tend to be stiffer within a particular model line (the 170 is stiffer than the 165, etc) but because Burton makes soft boards in general, you have to go really long to get the proper stiffness to support your weight. With other brands and other board models, you can ride a shorter board if it is stiffer. Palmer, Salomon, and Donek stick out in my mind as stiffer boards but there are other brands too (Prior can stiffen up a board, but they make really expensive boards that rarely go on sale). Burton and Forum (now owned by Burton I think) make very soft boards. The boards you demo'd a really designed for someone 50 lbs lighter than you. Sure they felt really easy to push around because again they were so soft, but you aren't going very fast yet and once you get better they are not going to be able to support you weight in a turn (it's going to chatter and flap and bounce you around). Not to mention the fact that at 50 lbs over the designed weight you are much more likely to snap the board if you hit a bump or a rut and crash (think of trying to cut a burnt steak with a plastic knife). Back to what you said about being able to push the tail around. It is important to be able to do it occasionally to control speed, but you don't want to be doing it every turn (i.e. turing by pushing your back leg out left and right) - as you get better you will learn to do this less. I'm not quite sure what you were saying when you said that the snowboards "get easily shifted" riding flat. If you mean they drift in a random direction when you are trying to stay flat and pointed down the fall line, I am pretty sure that is mainly because you are still learning and have quite gotten the hang of flatboarding (it is rather hard to do starting out). Having beveled base edges will help a lot in keeping you from catching you edge while flatboarding (don't worry about base edges right now). Again, you don't have to buy a super-stiff board immediately, but if you want to progress beyond a novice level... you are definitely going to have to get something stiffer than a Burton Custom/Canyon 163. Whether you do that now or later is up to you. Some people like to buy a board they can grow into, others like to buy a cheap beginnner board and then switch in 1 year be reselling and buying again. I will definitely warn you that a stiffer board like the Donek Wide 165 will not be as "forgiving" for really bad technique (like excessive man-handling of the board by pushing out the tail) and you will have to deal with the bevelling the edges (just take it to a shop and ask then to sharpen your edges with 1 degree base / 1 degree side, which is the general standard) even though 98% of all snowboarder have no clue about edge bevels. I would suggest the Wide 160 to start out so you are on the higher end (but still not on the maximum limit) of the weight range so it will be more forgiving. The Donek Phoenix 163W would actually be the perfect choice for you (noticebly softer and more forgiving while still stiffer than any Burton at the same length) but I hesitate to recommend it becuase it is $100 more ($475). It is one of the best designed boards and most versatile I've ever ridden though. AGAIN if you buy a Donek, take it to a shop and have the edges bevelled, otherwise it will toss you to the snow hard a lot (any board with unbevelled edges will do this, but Donek is the only company that doesn't bevel their edges at the factory). My second question is about binding. Currently, I can't rock up onto my board when I fall heel side, and If I have to sit down to strap in then I need to flip over to toe side so I can stand up. These things make the flow like binding systems really attractive to me, but I wonder if they will work well with my boots, and possible board choice of Donek? If not the flows what do people recommend? I find all the information a bit to much, and very contradictory. So please if you can help me answer my questions I would be very grateful. First, I would like to say that you will soon learn how to push yourself up from your heelside, so I wouldn't buy gear just to be able to get into your bindings from the toeside edge. That being said, FLOWS are very convenient and hte higher ends are pretty good bindings and I don't see any major problems with them and Donek boards. I think FLOW should work decently with Salomons as they don't have a big chunky heel (and get caught on the highback), but you should really just go to a store with your boots and test if yourself. The K2 Cinch has a similar idea, but allow you to strap in OR step-in. The Cinch's plastic is a bit cheap and flexy though (not very good performance, questionable durability). Other bindings that are good are Ride, Salomon, and Technine - Burton and Drake make good high-end bindings, but they tend to be very expensive and the cheaper models are not very good at all. |
#10
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lonerider wrote:
I like the stiff models in the Salomon lines (Dialogue, Synapse, Malamute) and I haven't tried the Simbio, but I know it's on the lower end of the line. Yes they are very comfortable, but it is very easy to be comfortable in a soft-flexing boot, it's like wearing slippers... but you don't want to run a marathon or go hiking in slippers. The problem is that in order for a stiff boot to feel comfortable, it has to fit you perfectly, otherwise it will pinch and pressure you all over the place. Stiffer boots tend to be more expensive, so I understand that you might not want to buy them when you are starting out... but they are the most important piece of equipment - high performing bindings and boards are worthless if you have this super floppy, super loose pair of comfy boots where you foot and shin can slide around inside without that energy being transferred to the rest of the gear. As a compromise, I just suggest that each time you buy a new pair of boots, slowly get a higher end, stiffer pair of boots (that fit perfectly!) until you are at least in the medium-high stiffness range. Super-stiff boots give you more performance, but there a tradeoff point where you just might not want that stiff a boot. However, you would really need to search and try hard to find a boot that I would say would be too stiff in general (especially at your size and weight). Snowboard boots are made for snowboarding, not for walking, be prepared to walk a little funny in them, if you can walk completely normally in a pair of boots (instead of slightly on your heelsde), they aren't going to treat you well when snowboarding. Well the good news here is that while this boot is soft it also fits pretty tightly. I have no slide inside the boot, and I definitely have to walk heel first. They do have a fair amount of flex to them though. I'm hoping these will last me through next season so I can then really evaluate what I want. I chose these because I had zero heel lift with them. Yes, the Custom is a soft board and Canyon is wide and not very torsionally rigid. I wouldn't recommend either for you... actually. I wouldn't recommend ANYTHING in the Burton lineup and you are just beyond the maximum recommended weight for all of their boards except for the Baron 172 and the Triumph 173 and then you are at the very limit of the range (check the Burton website). Longer board tend to be stiffer within a particular model line (the 170 is stiffer than the 165, etc) but because Burton makes soft boards in general, you have to go really long to get the proper stiffness to support your weight. With other brands and other board models, you can ride a shorter board if it is stiffer. Palmer, Salomon, and Donek stick out in my mind as stiffer boards but there are other brands too (Prior can stiffen up a board, but they make really expensive boards that rarely go on sale). Burton and Forum (now owned by Burton I think) make very soft boards. The boards you demo'd a really designed for someone 50 lbs lighter than you. Sure they felt really easy to push around because again they were so soft, but you aren't going very fast yet and once you get better they are not going to be able to support you weight in a turn (it's going to chatter and flap and bounce you around). Not to mention the fact that at 50 lbs over the designed weight you are much more likely to snap the board if you hit a bump or a rut and crash (think of trying to cut a burnt steak with a plastic knife). Back to what you said about being able to push the tail around. It is important to be able to do it occasionally to control speed, but you don't want to be doing it every turn (i.e. turing by pushing your back leg out left and right) - as you get better you will learn to do this less. I'm not quite sure what you were saying when you said that the snowboards "get easily shifted" riding flat. If you mean they drift in a random direction when you are trying to stay flat and pointed down the fall line, I am pretty sure that is mainly because you are still learning and have quite gotten the hang of flatboarding (it is rather hard to do starting out). Having beveled base edges will help a lot in keeping you from catching you edge while flatboarding (don't worry about base edges right now). So as far as the back leg thing. I am still pretty nervous about going fast because the few times it has happened I have either gotten into a nasty wobble, and eventually I hang an edge and go down hard. So I have taken to side sliding a good bit to avoid gaining to much speed. I realize this is a total crutch, but I don't how else to control my speed. I assume there are other better ways once I progress, but I want to make sure I am not getting a board that will prevent me from slowing down when I need to. If the answer is "yes but it will take a bit more effort" then I am down with that. I am more than willing to have to work harder to get the board to go where I want it to. I just need to have some way to effectively control how fast I go down the mountain. Otherwise, I do all my actual turning with my front leg. I hope this clarifies my concerns somewhat. Again, you don't have to buy a super-stiff board immediately, but if you want to progress beyond a novice level... you are definitely going to have to get something stiffer than a Burton Custom/Canyon 163. Whether you do that now or later is up to you. Some people like to buy a board they can grow into, others like to buy a cheap beginnner board and then switch in 1 year be reselling and buying again. I will definitely warn you that a stiffer board like the Donek Wide 165 will not be as "forgiving" for really bad technique (like excessive man-handling of the board by pushing out the tail) and you will have to deal with the bevelling the edges (just take it to a shop and ask then to sharpen your edges with 1 degree base / 1 degree side, which is the general standard) even though 98% of all snowboarder have no clue about edge bevels. I would suggest the Wide 160 to start out so you are on the higher end (but still not on the maximum limit) of the weight range so it will be more forgiving. The Donek Phoenix 163W would actually be the perfect choice for you (noticebly softer and more forgiving while still stiffer than any Burton at the same length) but I hesitate to recommend it becuase it is $100 more ($475). It is one of the best designed boards and most versatile I've ever ridden though. AGAIN if you buy a Donek, take it to a shop and have the edges bevelled, otherwise it will toss you to the snow hard a lot (any board with unbevelled edges will do this, but Donek is the only company that doesn't bevel their edges at the factory). So you recomend the Phoenix. Do you think this is a good long term board that I can grow into? Is it just a good all around mountain board (I really don't care about tricks)? I know people were recommending the sasquach(sp?) earlier. Can you compare and contrast the two boards for me so I have a better idea about the pros/cons of the boards? First, I would like to say that you will soon learn how to push yourself up from your heelside, so I wouldn't buy gear just to be able to get into your bindings from the toeside edge. That being said, FLOWS are very convenient and hte higher ends are pretty good bindings and I don't see any major problems with them and Donek boards. I think FLOW should work decently with Salomons as they don't have a big chunky heel (and get caught on the highback), but you should really just go to a store with your boots and test if yourself. The K2 Cinch has a similar idea, but allow you to strap in OR step-in. The Cinch's plastic is a bit cheap and flexy though (not very good performance, questionable durability). Other bindings that are good are Ride, Salomon, and Technine - Burton and Drake make good high-end bindings, but they tend to be very expensive and the cheaper models are not very good at all. So I have solomon boots, and I imagine solomon bindings go well with those, can you recommend some good bindings from flow, ride, and solomon, with the obvious caveat that I need to make sure they fit my boots? I'm just trying to figure out what I should be looking at. Thanks again for all the help. This group is amazingly friendly. --Matt |
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