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Blind me with beer science



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 23rd 07, 01:52 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
bumpfreaq
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Posts: 131
Default Blind me with beer science

Ok, here's a sciency query for y'all.

I get to my motel with plenty of beer. I've got Sierra Nevada Pale
Ale, Sierra Nevada Wheat and O'Dell's 5 Barrel Pale Ale. The mini
fridge isn't quite chilly enough so I ratchet the thermostat down a
bit then load in the bottles, filling up each available space in turn
but rotating the different flavors so that I have ready access to
whatever suits my momentary fancy. The next evening when I return
"home" from skiing I select a wheat beer and it's quite frosty. Next
up is a SNPA, of course it's mighty chilly as well. When I get to the
O'Dell's it instantly freezes as soon as I open it. This remains the
case for each O'Dell's no matter what part of the fridge it came from,
but is never the case for the other two brews no matter what part of
the fridge they were chilling in.

Can anyone explain this?

Chris

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  #2  
Old February 23rd 07, 01:57 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Yabahoobs
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Posts: 1,406
Default Blind me with beer science

On Feb 22, 7:52 pm, "bumpfreaq" wrote:
Ok, here's a sciency query for y'all.

I get to my motel with plenty of beer. I've got Sierra Nevada Pale
Ale, Sierra Nevada Wheat and O'Dell's 5 Barrel Pale Ale. The mini
fridge isn't quite chilly enough so I ratchet the thermostat down a
bit then load in the bottles, filling up each available space in turn
but rotating the different flavors so that I have ready access to
whatever suits my momentary fancy. The next evening when I return
"home" from skiing I select a wheat beer and it's quite frosty. Next
up is a SNPA, of course it's mighty chilly as well. When I get to the
O'Dell's it instantly freezes as soon as I open it. This remains the
case for each O'Dell's no matter what part of the fridge it came from,
but is never the case for the other two brews no matter what part of
the fridge they were chilling in.

Can anyone explain this?

Chris


Any significant difference in alcohol content ?

  #3  
Old February 23rd 07, 02:10 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
John R. Copeland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Blind me with beer science

"bumpfreaq" wrote in message oups.com...
Ok, here's a sciency query for y'all.

I get to my motel with plenty of beer. I've got Sierra Nevada Pale
Ale, Sierra Nevada Wheat and O'Dell's 5 Barrel Pale Ale. The mini
fridge isn't quite chilly enough so I ratchet the thermostat down a
bit then load in the bottles, filling up each available space in turn
but rotating the different flavors so that I have ready access to
whatever suits my momentary fancy. The next evening when I return
"home" from skiing I select a wheat beer and it's quite frosty. Next
up is a SNPA, of course it's mighty chilly as well. When I get to the
O'Dell's it instantly freezes as soon as I open it. This remains the
case for each O'Dell's no matter what part of the fridge it came from,
but is never the case for the other two brews no matter what part of
the fridge they were chilling in.

Can anyone explain this?

Chris


Could be lower alcohol content in O'Dell's.
Could be higher CO2 pressure in O'Dell's.
Could be both.

  #4  
Old February 23rd 07, 02:20 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
klaus
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 409
Default Blind me with beer science

bumpfreaq wrote:
Ok, here's a sciency query for y'all.

I get to my motel with plenty of beer. I've got Sierra Nevada Pale
Ale, Sierra Nevada Wheat and O'Dell's 5 Barrel Pale Ale. The mini
fridge isn't quite chilly enough so I ratchet the thermostat down a
bit then load in the bottles, filling up each available space in turn
but rotating the different flavors so that I have ready access to
whatever suits my momentary fancy. The next evening when I return
"home" from skiing I select a wheat beer and it's quite frosty. Next
up is a SNPA, of course it's mighty chilly as well. When I get to the
O'Dell's it instantly freezes as soon as I open it. This remains the
case for each O'Dell's no matter what part of the fridge it came from,
but is never the case for the other two brews no matter what part of
the fridge they were chilling in.

Can anyone explain this?


The freezing point changes with pressure and alcohol content. When you
open the bottle, the pressure drops and the freezing point goes up. If
the beer is cold enough, and alcohol content low enough, it will
freeze. If the alcohol content is high enough, the change in pressure
doesn't raise the freezing point enough to freeze.

Physics of beer.

-klaus


  #5  
Old February 23rd 07, 02:23 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
bdubya
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 255
Default Blind me with beer science

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 22:10:32 -0500, "John R. Copeland"
wrote:

"bumpfreaq" wrote in message oups.com...
Ok, here's a sciency query for y'all.

I get to my motel with plenty of beer. I've got Sierra Nevada Pale
Ale, Sierra Nevada Wheat and O'Dell's 5 Barrel Pale Ale. The mini
fridge isn't quite chilly enough so I ratchet the thermostat down a
bit then load in the bottles, filling up each available space in turn
but rotating the different flavors so that I have ready access to
whatever suits my momentary fancy. The next evening when I return
"home" from skiing I select a wheat beer and it's quite frosty. Next
up is a SNPA, of course it's mighty chilly as well. When I get to the
O'Dell's it instantly freezes as soon as I open it. This remains the
case for each O'Dell's no matter what part of the fridge it came from,
but is never the case for the other two brews no matter what part of
the fridge they were chilling in.

Can anyone explain this?

Chris


Could be lower alcohol content in O'Dell's.
Could be higher CO2 pressure in O'Dell's.
Could be both.


The alcohol content makes sense to me. But, while I can see how the
higher CO2 pressure would keep the O'Dell's from freezing while
sealed, I'm not clear on how it would prompt freezing when the
pressure is released. (Not playing "gotcha", just geniunely curious)

I have't had the O'Dell's, but IMHO the Sierra Nevada doesn't need to
be anywhere near freezing to be palatable.

bw
  #6  
Old February 23rd 07, 02:24 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
bumpfreaq
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 131
Default Blind me with beer science

On Feb 22, 9:57 pm, "Yabahoobs" wrote:
On Feb 22, 7:52 pm, "bumpfreaq" wrote:



Ok, here's a sciency query for y'all.


I get to my motel with plenty of beer. I've got Sierra Nevada Pale
Ale, Sierra Nevada Wheat and O'Dell's 5 Barrel Pale Ale. The mini
fridge isn't quite chilly enough so I ratchet the thermostat down a
bit then load in the bottles, filling up each available space in turn
but rotating the different flavors so that I have ready access to
whatever suits my momentary fancy. The next evening when I return
"home" from skiing I select a wheat beer and it's quite frosty. Next
up is a SNPA, of course it's mighty chilly as well. When I get to the
O'Dell's it instantly freezes as soon as I open it. This remains the
case for each O'Dell's no matter what part of the fridge it came from,
but is never the case for the other two brews no matter what part of
the fridge they were chilling in.


Can anyone explain this?


Chris


Any significant difference in alcohol content ?


O'Dell's 5.5
SN 5.6

  #7  
Old February 23rd 07, 02:25 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Yabahoobs
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,406
Default Blind me with beer science

On Feb 22, 8:10 pm, "John R. Copeland"
wrote:
"bumpfreaq" wrote in ooglegroups.com...
Ok, here's a sciency query for y'all.


I get to my motel with plenty of beer. I've got Sierra Nevada Pale
Ale, Sierra Nevada Wheat and O'Dell's 5 Barrel Pale Ale. The mini
fridge isn't quite chilly enough so I ratchet the thermostat down a
bit then load in the bottles, filling up each available space in turn
but rotating the different flavors so that I have ready access to
whatever suits my momentary fancy. The next evening when I return
"home" from skiing I select a wheat beer and it's quite frosty. Next
up is a SNPA, of course it's mighty chilly as well. When I get to the
O'Dell's it instantly freezes as soon as I open it. This remains the
case for each O'Dell's no matter what part of the fridge it came from,
but is never the case for the other two brews no matter what part of
the fridge they were chilling in.


Can anyone explain this?


Chris


Could be lower alcohol content in O'Dell's.
Could be higher CO2 pressure in O'Dell's.
Could be both.



The insti freezing of the O'dells means that the extra pressure of
those bottles allowed the beer to cool beyond it's normal atmospheric
pressure freeze point. when that pressure was release it was allowed
to freeze.

Also, once that pressure was released, ice formation and decreased
temp is favored entropicly

  #8  
Old February 23rd 07, 02:29 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
bumpfreaq
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 131
Default Blind me with beer science

On Feb 22, 10:23 pm, bdubya wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 22:10:32 -0500, "John R. Copeland"



wrote:
"bumpfreaq" wrote in ooglegroups.com...
Ok, here's a sciency query for y'all.


I get to my motel with plenty of beer. I've got Sierra Nevada Pale
Ale, Sierra Nevada Wheat and O'Dell's 5 Barrel Pale Ale. The mini
fridge isn't quite chilly enough so I ratchet the thermostat down a
bit then load in the bottles, filling up each available space in turn
but rotating the different flavors so that I have ready access to
whatever suits my momentary fancy. The next evening when I return
"home" from skiing I select a wheat beer and it's quite frosty. Next
up is a SNPA, of course it's mighty chilly as well. When I get to the
O'Dell's it instantly freezes as soon as I open it. This remains the
case for each O'Dell's no matter what part of the fridge it came from,
but is never the case for the other two brews no matter what part of
the fridge they were chilling in.


Can anyone explain this?


Chris


Could be lower alcohol content in O'Dell's.
Could be higher CO2 pressure in O'Dell's.
Could be both.


The alcohol content makes sense to me. But, while I can see how the
higher CO2 pressure would keep the O'Dell's from freezing while
sealed, I'm not clear on how it would prompt freezing when the
pressure is released. (Not playing "gotcha", just geniunely curious)

I have't had the O'Dell's, but IMHO the Sierra Nevada doesn't need to
be anywhere near freezing to be palatable.

bw


Yeah, I'm definitely in agreement on that one. The motel fridge
thermostat was a bit jankity. I made another quick adjustment.

Chris

  #9  
Old February 23rd 07, 02:32 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Yabahoobs
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,406
Default Blind me with beer science

If the beer is cold enough, and alcohol content low enough, it will
freeze. If the alcohol content is high enough, the change in pressure
doesn't raise the freezing point enough to freeze.

Physics of beer.

-klaus


To a point. There would be a sigmoidal curve (freeze point-x vs.
alcohol content y) approaching, but never hitting the freeze point of
ethanol.

  #10  
Old February 23rd 07, 02:37 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
klaus
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Posts: 409
Default Blind me with beer science

Yabahoobs wrote:

To a point. There would be a sigmoidal curve (freeze point-x vs.
alcohol content y) approaching, but never hitting the freeze point of
ethanol.


Yes. But this is why they put methanol in windshield washer fluid.

But yah know.. looking at the phase diagram for water, I think you
were right about the adiabatic cooling being the culprit and the
pressure differemce as the reason, especially considering that the
alcohol content of the two beers is pretty close. Incresed pressure
would normally mean it would freeze at a warmer temp. So I think I was
confused.

-klaus


 




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