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#1
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Dumb Question
A previous post mentioning Marty Hall's technique for handling fast, sharp
curves got me to thinking: what is the best technique for staying in the tracks on a wicked, high-speed corner? Especially when the tracks are icy? I usually just bail out and go around on the flat-packed (skating) part of the trail, but I'm guessing that the really good skiers (like you guys) hang in there, in an aerodynamic tuck. -JJ |
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#2
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Dumb Question
here's a dumb answer, but it works for me, and I'm not a "...really good
skier." I do like the downhill guys do, and steer myself around the turn with my opposite arm hooked out into the air. It's an extension of a teaching technique I used to use with my Jackrabbits, and that's to "signal your turn with your opposite elbow. " If you raise your elbow and point your fist around in the direction of the turn, it seems to transfer your weight in all the right directions. You gotta keep both hands in front of you though, otherwise you over-rotate. Here's the disclaimer: I don't know how well this works on icy wicked high speed corners, 'cuz I've never had the guts to try it. In those situations, I get out of the tracks and scramble like crazy from one ski to the other and step turn in the direction I'm trying to go, and try to keep from falling over. Helpful, huh?!? Tim From: "Jeff J." Newsgroups: rec.skiing.nordic Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 07:17:09 -0600 Subject: Dumb Question A previous post mentioning Marty Hall's technique for handling fast, sharp curves got me to thinking: what is the best technique for staying in the tracks on a wicked, high-speed corner? Especially when the tracks are icy? I usually just bail out and go around on the flat-packed (skating) part of the trail, but I'm guessing that the really good skiers (like you guys) hang in there, in an aerodynamic tuck. -JJ |
#3
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Dumb Question
I was wondering the same thing. So at least you are not the only one thiking
of dumb questions...I normally just slide around on my arse and then stand up once I've come to a stop and keep going. Works well for me but it is not too efficient and not really all that stylish. This season I'm hoping to learn how to do the corners standing up. I wouldn't mind hearing how folks do this as well. :O) Bob "Jeff J." wrote in message .. . A previous post mentioning Marty Hall's technique for handling fast, sharp curves got me to thinking: what is the best technique for staying in the tracks on a wicked, high-speed corner? Especially when the tracks are icy? I usually just bail out and go around on the flat-packed (skating) part of the trail, but I'm guessing that the really good skiers (like you guys) hang in there, in an aerodynamic tuck. -JJ |
#4
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Dumb Question
"Bob Creasote" wrote in message ... I was wondering the same thing. So at least you are not the only one thiking of dumb questions...I normally just slide around on my arse and then stand up once I've come to a stop and keep going. Danger Danger Best to keep your backside off the icy track at all times. Otherwise your tailbone gets thumped, this in turn pushes the spinal column up between the sacroiliac joints which can strain the 'seal', the result is twist and turn pain in later life. Mike |
#5
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Dumb Question
Jeff,
I've found that three things help, all of which have sort of been mentioned. First is body position. You want to be low and forward so that your center of gravity is in between your skis and low, which brings stability and the ability to handle terrain variations and unexpected forces. Get this position by *relaxing*, bending at the knees, ankles and hips, lowering your upper body on top of all of this. Make sure that you are forward, which includes hands - hold them a bit in front of your chest or a bit lower, but do not let them get close to your body. Second is leading with the hands and head. It is startling how silly this seems, but if you look to where you want to go and then point at it with your outside hand, you will go there. The "outside hand" refers to turning; if you are making a left turn, your right hand is the outside hand. Initiate a turn by looking where you want to go and reaching toward it with your outside arm. This will begin a slight rotation and repositioning that will lead you into your turn. DO NOT look at objects you want to avoid (like the dude who just fell in front of you, or that stout tree to the side of the trail). Finally, leg work will get you through the corner. If you are in the tracks, push your outside ski a bit forward, kind of like a telemark turn. This will make you more stable. If you are skating around a corner or step-turning, you will need to actually turn yourself. Again, initiate with the outside hand. This will rotate you and point everything in the right direction. If you are outside of the track, you will take lots of little steps, changing direction with the inside ski, then bringing the outside ski parallel to the inside ski. One more thing - confidence. There is a Zen thing in all downhill activities that I have experienced, whether mountain biking, rollerskiing, skiing or other crazy pursuit. This is especially true of staying in the track around a fast, icy corner. You have to believe that you are going to make it and that you are going to do it well. As soon as you lose confidence and fear something, the fear overtakes all aspects of brain function and you lose the motor skills and focus that keep you on track. Skiing is nice because, generally, the worst that happens is you cartwheel into the trees and laugh at yourself. Other sports have much more serious consequences to falling, so it is not as easy to test this theory out. But if you believe in yourself and keep that fear at bay, most often that is how you get around an icy corner in the track. I wrote an article on this and I think it either appeared in the last issue of Master Skier last year, or will appear in the first issue this year. I don't remember which, so I guess if you want to find out, you'll have to check out the first issue of Master Skier. BTW, Ski Racing magazine (the one that has treated nordic like a red-headed step-child) just got bought out by Inside Communications, the same company that owns Velonews. They are trying to make amends to the nordic world by dramatically increasing the quantity and quality of xc coverage and hiring really good cross-country writers. So, it may be worth checking out.... -Nathan http://nsavage.com "Jeff J." wrote in message .. . A previous post mentioning Marty Hall's technique for handling fast, sharp curves got me to thinking: what is the best technique for staying in the tracks on a wicked, high-speed corner? Especially when the tracks are icy? I usually just bail out and go around on the flat-packed (skating) part of the trail, but I'm guessing that the really good skiers (like you guys) hang in there, in an aerodynamic tuck. -JJ |
#6
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Dumb Question
....or thump your tailbone, which causes compression and weakening of your
lower thoracic and upper lumbar vertebrae; the result is constant low-grade back pain in later life. I guess with turning on icy tracks, you just have to decide which area of your body you're least willing to damage, and adjust your technique accordingly. :-( Tim From: "Taywood" Reply-To: "Taywood" Newsgroups: rec.skiing.nordic Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:10:38 +0100 Subject: Dumb Question Danger Danger Best to keep your backside off the icy track at all times. Otherwise your tailbone gets thumped, this in turn pushes the spinal column up between the sacroiliac joints which can strain the 'seal', the result is twist and turn pain in later life. Mike |
#7
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Dumb Question
"Jeff J." wrote in message ...
A previous post mentioning Marty Hall's technique for handling fast, sharp curves got me to thinking: what is the best technique for staying in the tracks on a wicked, high-speed corner? Especially when the tracks are icy? I usually just bail out and go around on the flat-packed (skating) part of the trail, but I'm guessing that the really good skiers (like you guys) hang in there, in an aerodynamic tuck. Jeff, I don't think it's such a bad thing to bail out and step around a turn (which is legal). Just because there's tracks on a corner doesn't mean you can or should stay in them. Up at Giants Ridge I completely yard-saled on a corner during some training. I was trying to push my limits and the skis just locked up in the tracks and threw me across the trail. I looked back at the corner and just kind of smiled at my stupidity of trying to stay in the tracks on a corner that sharp (and at that high speed). If you fall in a race, it's usually a big deal to get back in rhythm and gain back the ground you lost. Classic seems like more of a finesse (sp?) type of thing, and it's hard to just hammer, catch up and then back off. Jay Wenner |
#8
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Dumb Question
Thanks for the input, everyone. BTW, the local (Denver area) weather
forecast is calling for snow as low as 6000 feet for Sunday morning (this means the foothills will be really pretty, and I will HAVE to go for a morning hike in one of the Open Space parks)(where the parking is free, also). |
#9
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Dumb Question
I think the reason pushing the outside ski forward helps is that it puts
more weight on the rear of the inside edge of the outside ski. I once read a mechanical engineering paper that explained (in some complicated engineering formulas) why the _rear_ of the ski was critical for holding an edge. I remember in my early days of trying to descend steep hardpack slopes at downhill resorts on skinny skis with a 3-pin binding -- that this was about the only situation where the telemark position was actually better than stem christie -- for getting some edge-grip on hard snow. Ken |
#10
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Dumb Question
It depends on the turning technique, I think. Take one
example: downhill parallel turns (normally not a xc technique, but just for illustration): the skier would indeed rotate the upper torso opposite the turn direction, "swooshing" with the heels. The result: skier faces more or less downhill through an entire series of linked turns. So in classic tracks, it might be very effective to turn like a downhill skier (?) maybe. But in step turns on cross coutry skis, I like the idea of pointing with the opposite arm in the direction of the turn. One result of that is it puts that arm and pole in an ideal position for a last second correction, which would be to rotate it outwards and away to torque the lower body inwards more. But mostly it just places you in a more commanding position through the turn. -Bob Paul Heraty wrote in message ... Would like to hear opinions on a technique we have been taught by a number of coaches... Maybe this was Marty Hall's technique discussed earlier? (sorry I'm coming late to the discussion) Nathan and others have talked about leading with the outside arm (pointing in the direction of the turn). In other words, to turn left, point in that direction with the right arm. We have been taught a technique which seems completely opposite -- you rotate the upper body to the outside of the turn. in other words, to turn left, you keep knees facing left in tracks, but point slightly right with both arms. Apparently this countermotion has the effect of twisting hips left and canting/weighting skis slightly so they edge around the turn better in the tracks. This pointing to the outside of the turn is very counterintuitive, but it seems to have worked on fast corners for me. Scary though, and staying calm, confident and low is a must. paul heraty In article , |
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