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Advice needed on Burton Cascade and Nitro Shogun



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 9th 04, 07:28 PM
Arne Aas
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Default Advice needed on Burton Cascade and Nitro Shogun

I have a LibTech Emmagator board. While I was very pleased with this
board when I bought it about 3 years ago, I am now not that satisfied.
It performs well in normal conditions, but not really when it is
hard/icy or otherwise more challenging. I am therefore considering
buying another board, but I want to make sure that I am getting
something better.

I enjoy off-piste riding the most, going down forest runs, wide open
mountain sides, or narrow couloirs. I encounter all kinds of
conditions, powder, slush, windblown hardpack, ice, crusty snow, and
so on. I basically need a board that rides well in all kinds of
conditions and terrain. I have ridden for ten years and consider
myself a fairly advanced boarder with a somewhat aggressive riding
style.

The local stores are having a sale, and I have found two promising
candidates
Burton Cascade
Nitro Shogun

(snowboards are quite expensive in Norway, the normal price for these
would be almost USD900, so getting them for half price is rather
important...)

Finally, the questions:

Do you have any experience with these boards, and do you have a
comment on how they would perform for my use?

Do you know how they would compare to the Lib Tech? Will they be
noticebly better.

I am 170 cm / 70 kg (6' 7" / 154 lb) but I prefer fairly long boards
(the Emmagator is 165 cm) to get sufficient powder float as well as
high speed stability.

Oh, one thing: I have the Nitro Naturals, but I find it too stiff, the
nose tends to dig into slushy snow/"wet powder snow". Is the Shogun
just a slightly modified Naturals?

Thanks for any advice, and for actually reading this long post... :-)
Arne
Ads
  #2  
Old January 9th 04, 07:57 PM
Mike T
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Default Advice needed on Burton Cascade and Nitro Shogun

(snowboards are quite expensive in Norway, the normal price for these
would be almost USD900, so getting them for half price is rather
important...)


I recommend you consider the Donek Incline, at www.donek.com. Check
out the all inclusive Euro pricing... 420 Euros including shipping and
taxes.

Many, many Donek owners hang out on this newsgroup and most of us give
our boards glowing reviews.

I am 170 cm / 70 kg (6' 7" / 154 lb) but I prefer fairly long boards
(the Emmagator is 165 cm) to get sufficient powder float as well as
high speed stability.


170 cm = 67 inches = 5'7". Big difference!

Mike T


  #3  
Old January 9th 04, 08:04 PM
Mike T
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Default Advice needed on Burton Cascade and Nitro Shogun

I enjoy off-piste riding the most, going down forest runs, wide open
mountain sides, or narrow couloirs. I encounter all kinds of
conditions, powder, slush, windblown hardpack, ice, crusty snow, and
so on. I basically need a board that rides well in all kinds of
conditions and terrain. I have ridden for ten years and consider
myself a fairly advanced boarder with a somewhat aggressive riding
style.


Many, many Donek owners hang out on this newsgroup and most of us give
our boards glowing reviews.



I should add, I use my Doneks in the kinds of conditions you mention
above with great results. I actually own four of them:

Wide 161 - my main soft-boot board

Freecarve 163 - carving board, groomers only

Axis 172 - hard boots only, great at carving groomers, just as much fun
off piste, especially in crud and on wide open bowls

an old Incline 168 - rock board. This one is softer than the current
Inclines, still a lot of fun when I don't want to trash any one of my
new ones!


  #4  
Old January 10th 04, 09:07 AM
WeatherCam
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Default Advice needed on Burton Cascade and Nitro Shogun


"Mike T" wrote in message
...
(snowboards are quite expensive in Norway, the normal price for these
would be almost USD900, so getting them for half price is rather
important...)


I recommend you consider the Donek

Ignoring the blatant commercial plug for some board which in my opinion
should be treated like spam - and that guy should call it a halt to plugging
his crap here on this NG - I'll sincerley try and answer half your
question - I'm just under 178kgs and 5'10" - I'm quite a hard agressive
freerider ( 8 years La Grave ) lost all my kit in a house fire this year,
including 192 Powder Gun - I was also riding a 167 Natural, but have
replaced that with a 169 Shogun and used it a week before xmas in all
conditions, hard packed piste, crud with crust off piste - then three days
of powder - it was very responsive and rode really well - ok have changed my
boots and bindings to Deeluxe Touring boots which have Dynafit lugs to use
90cm approach skis (we're touring in Narvik in April with Per As (swede) as
a guide) - and used these with flow bindings (bit heavy) but the setup was
very good, almost a hard boot setup - don't know what spring snow will be
like but the board was very good!

Best of luck and lets all ignore this blatant Donel crap shall we - till he
learns better manners.

REgards
WC


  #5  
Old January 10th 04, 02:39 PM
Mike T
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Default Advice needed on Burton Cascade and Nitro Shogun

Best of luck and lets all ignore this blatant Donel crap shall we -
till he
learns better manners.


WeatherCam, I don't work for Donek in any way shape or form, I'm just a
very satisfied customer. And I'm not getting any discounts for
recommending them either. It's just that I've ridden *lots* of other
boards by Burton, Salomon, Ride, LibTech, K2, Lamar, Oxygen, Liquid, and
probably a few others I've forgotten, and none of them have treated me
half as well.

I really enjoy riding my Doneks, all four of them, so why shouldn't I
blatantly evangelize them! I have nothing to gain. In fact just the
opposite, there could be a longer backlog next time I want to order one!

Don't knock it until you've tried it.

Mike T



  #6  
Old January 10th 04, 10:20 PM
Jason Watkins
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Default Advice needed on Burton Cascade and Nitro Shogun

My friend has the cascade. I'm only an intermediate, but my experience
with his board was that it was fairly quick responding relaxed
cruiser. I've only taken a few runs on it, so not much experience in
varried terrain, but overall I think "relaxed" describes it well. I'm
about your weight at 65 kg. If you're an aggressive, advanced rider,
I'd be a little worried that you might find the cascade too relaxed
and limiting.

Don't know anything about the Nitro.

I have a donek wide 161. I've found it to be a little stiffer than the
average burton board. It's not quite as responsive, but far more
stable at speed, and has awsome edge hold. I have no connection to
donek other than I'm a customer. I happen to know Mike T as well, and
as far as I can tell, he doesn't get rewarded for speaking his mind
about donek boards. At this point there are only a few other boards
that interest me. For all around riding, I've liked the donek so much
I can't imagine buying much else.

I don't know what import taxes are like in norway compared to the rest
of the EU, but I'd think you could get something like a Rad Air Tanker
for a reasonable price. I don't have any experience with it, but it's
been described to me as a big mountain board with a slightly softer
nose, which is what it sounds like you want.
  #7  
Old January 11th 04, 04:24 PM
Arne Aas
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Posts: n/a
Default Advice needed on Burton Cascade and Nitro Shogun

"WeatherCam" wrote in message ...
ok have changed my
boots and bindings to Deeluxe Touring boots which have Dynafit lugs to use
90cm approach skis (we're touring in Narvik in April with Per As (swede) as
a guide) - and used these with flow bindings (bit heavy) but the setup was
very good, almost a hard boot setup - don't know what spring snow will be
like but the board was very good!


Thanks for your advice. I am very interested in your touring setup, I
have been considering almost the same. Today I have K2 Approach Skis
with Clicker bindings. It works really well, but the K2 Clicker boots
are not so well suited for back country, as they are not waterproof.
Thus I am considering getting some light weight and fairly soft
randonee boots, and mounting "plate bindings" (?) on my board and
DynaFit bindings on my Approach Skis.

How do you like riding with plastic boots instead of soft boots? Any
disadvantages? I don't do any freestyle so I don't really need the
soft boot mobility, but I guess too rigid boot will be a disadvantage
in powder.

Any reason for choosing Flow bindings over "plate bindings"?

I am going to Lyngen in the north of Norway for three weeks in
April/May, it is not far from Narvik. We're renting a house and doing
day trips in the mountains.

My experience with the fairly stiff Naturals is that it usually works
quite well, but in wet spring snow it tends to dig in. Consider
bringing a soft board as a backup.

Arne
  #8  
Old January 12th 04, 09:00 AM
WeatherCam
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Posts: n/a
Default Advice needed on Burton Cascade and Nitro Shogun


Thanks for your advice. I am very interested in your touring setup, I
have been considering almost the same. Today I have K2 Approach Skis
with Clicker bindings. It works really well, but the K2 Clicker boots
are not so well suited for back country, as they are not waterproof.
Thus I am considering getting some light weight and fairly soft
randonee boots, and mounting "plate bindings" (?) on my board and
DynaFit bindings on my Approach Skis.

How do you like riding with plastic boots instead of soft boots? Any
disadvantages? I don't do any freestyle so I don't really need the
soft boot mobility, but I guess too rigid boot will be a disadvantage
in powder.

Any reason for choosing Flow bindings over "plate bindings"?

I am going to Lyngen in the north of Norway for three weeks in
April/May, it is not far from Narvik. We're renting a house and doing
day trips in the mountains.

My experience with the fairly stiff Naturals is that it usually works
quite well, but in wet spring snow it tends to dig in. Consider
bringing a soft board as a backup.

Arne


Arne

Sorry I must have confused you....the boots I use are in fact Soft
Snowboarding boots made my Deeluxe to fit the front Dynafit bindings on the
Skis. Deeluxe produced the boots with a harder sole and inserted the lugs
for the bindings in the toe piece of the boots. So I just use the Flow
bindings as normal, take out the skiis and clip the toes of the boots into
the Dynafit bindings on the skis, lock them and then off I go!

The only problem is that the boots are really hard to get ...friends have
bought the Rossignol Expedition ski, and are now contemplating what route to
go - Scarpa Ski Alpine boots are their favourite, using hard plate bindings
on the board - though last week we found out about the Kneissel Rail boots
which are in fact a soft ski boot which could equally be as good....the
Clicker system though is good with their snowshoes and crampons - and their
new boots with the Boa system is quite impressive....ideal scenario would be
soft ski apline boots that are also good for freeriding on a board, that
then use a stepin hard boot binding - that would then work with Alpine
touring bindings on the skis.....trouble is we are very much in the minority
of the sport so I think we'll have to work these things out ourselves!!!

We'll let you know how we get on!!

REgards
WC


  #9  
Old January 12th 04, 09:31 AM
Arvin Chang
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Posts: n/a
Default Advice needed on Burton Cascade and Nitro Shogun

"WeatherCam" wrote in message ...
"Mike T" wrote in message
...
(snowboards are quite expensive in Norway, the normal price for these
would be almost USD900, so getting them for half price is rather
important...)


I recommend you consider the Donek

Ignoring the blatant commercial plug for some board which in my opinion
should be treated like spam - and that guy should call it a halt to plugging
his crap here on this NG - I'll sincerley try and answer half your

Best of luck and lets all ignore this blatant Donel crap shall we - till he
learns better manners.

REgards
WC



WeatherCam, you should do a little research before you make poorly
supported accusations. Next time trying going to www.dejanews.com and
doing a search in the newsgroup to see someone's posting history. I
mean you talk about "better manners" and yet your own posts are rather
caustic as well.

I happen to actually know Mike T and he is not affiliated with Donek
in anyway. Mike is a very happy customer with Donek snowboards and
since Donek have virtually no advertising budget (being a tiny company
out of Colorado), has taken it upon himself to spread the world. If
you every went to sites like bomberonline.com or tahoecarvers.com you
would see that several other people are also trying to spread the word
about Donek snowboards as well.

I admit that Mike's fervor in Donek snowboards seems a little
"strong," and it could be misunderstood if read out of context.
However, I believe you could have given him the benefit of the doubt
instead of shooting off your mouth.
Regardless of whether Mike's enthusiasm for the board is warranted or
not, you are wrong about his relationship with the company and I
believe that you owe him an apology.

==========DISCLAIMER==================
Now I should mention that based on the comments made by Mike T, Iain
D, Randy S, and a few other people ... I decided to buy a Donek last
month myself to see what all the hubbub is about. So I now own a Donek
Incline 155 and I like it, although I don't think I will recommend it
to everyone just yet, as I've only ridden it four days, however...
even them I'm not sure I think everyone would like this type of boards
======================================

To Arne:

I like the Donek Incline a lot and I think you *might* like it. Just
consider this a single data point. So ifsrt I'm originally a big fan
of Salomon gear... over the past 8 years I've ridden three of their
boards (two 450s and one Salomon Definition). I really like the
all-mountainess of the Salomon Defition, it could ride wide groomed
runs, powder runs, and choppy snow to say a few... my main problem was
that at slower speeds, it was a little unwieldy to manuever. Mike T
suggested that I try a Donek Incline and so I have... so far I've only
ridden it on groomers, icy hills, thin powder, and choppy snow. I
think it does exceptionally well in groomered runs and choppy/slushy
snow. It is extremely responsive and have very good edge hold. I still
haven't made a decision about it in powder, windblown hardpack and
ice... I mean it was ok on all of them, but I wasn't amazed or
anything (although I'm not sure that's even possible). For powder, I
tended to sink in the snow easily (not a good thing in my opinion). I
rode through windblown hardpack and icy patches, but didn't really try
to "test" the board on them. I guess the board was no worse than other
boards I've ridden (Oxygen Vibe, Ride Timeless, Burton Dragon, Salomon
450). I did like the sidecut and flex pattern as it let you pick and
choose your turn radius (whereas my Definition kind of wanted to stay
in the same turn no matter what you did)

One thing I noticed that the website only sort of mentions is that the
Donek Incline is a very narrow board... I'm 5'8" (173cm) 145 lbs (65
kg) with mondo 26 cm boots and I need to ride high angles like 36-30
to avoid boot overhang (otherwise my toes/heels would touch the snow
in the middle of the turn causing me to fall). If you have bigger feet
or want less stance angles, not sure if you want the Incline... they
have the Wide and the Sasquatch models for mellower angles and bigger
feet, but I've never ridden them and cannot review them (although I
think they are essentially the same design).

So I'd say a Donek is a good option (since it is high quality and
relatively affording) but I'm not 100% I'm not sure if you would want
to buy board in the US from Norway - even though Donek have a 30-day
guarantee (they even pay for shipping in both directions) . Salomon
makes some good boards, but they are expensive and forget getting any
customer service. I've heard good things about Nitro as well, but
haven't ridden them myself.

--Arvin
  #10  
Old January 12th 04, 10:19 AM
WeatherCam
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Default Advice needed on Burton Cascade and Nitro Shogun

Arvin

Oh a liitle apology is due - ok sorry - but he's still hijacked the thread
to promote for what ever reason he see's fit to rave on about Donek - that
WAS NOT the question of the original post....if everyone did this the whole
ethos of newsgroups would die under avlanches of irelevant text - it happens
a lot over in windsurfing NG's and it's a real pain - someone asks a
sensiible question about two brands - maybe because that's all that's
available in his area, and then they get bombarded with loads of other
recomendations......plus over here in Europe it's still can be quite a
hassle ordering goods from the US as you'll never be quite sure as to how
you'll be stung for import taxes - and there's no way Donek can answer that
because they are not in control of that!!!

So aplogies, but I hope you see the point I'm making..

Regards
WC


 




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