First skiing hol advice needed

Steve Haigh wrote in message ...
ash wrote:
What is wrong with Crystal???? We always use them and they are far better
than Inghams, Thompson etc especially for catered chalets.

Rather than state why I'll never touch Crystal again here's a letter I
wrote to them a while back. Despite the holiday being in Meribel the
reply opened with 'regard your recent holiday to Italy' - and barely
managed to apologise.

letter

Chalet xxx, Meribel-Mottaret 22 - 29 December 2001

Dear Sir / Madam

I am writing to complain of the substandard service we received from
Crystal on our recent holiday at the above chalet.

There were three main areas of concern: getting to the resort, issues
with the chalet and getting back:

1. Getting there

We were extremely happy that despite industrial action by Eurtostar
staff, our train left Waterloo on time and arrived at 5:50 AM the next
morning in Moutiers dead on time.

We then found the Crystal reps and were directed to our coach by 6 AM
to be told that we'd be on our way to the resort by 6:30 AM. However,
we were unable to wait on the coach as, for some reason, it was full
of exhaust fumes which we were told were "normal". So we had to wait
outside in the cold until the fumes died down.

6:30 AM came and went as the "reps" organised lift passes etc. On
every other ski holiday I've been on this is arranged on the move but
we were told we could not go until it was done. It later transpired
that the "reps" were in fact resort nannies, not trained for what they
were doing hence taking extra long time. We were constantly told we
were "about to leave" and then just sat there. No one took control of
the situation and told us what was actually happening.

So, after a long, cold, tiring and somewhat smelly wait for an hour
and a forty minutes our coach finally moved at around 7:30 AM (by this
time we'd long been the only coach in the station car park as all the
other tour operators' coaches managed to leave promptly).

The short coach transfer was one of the appeals of going via Eurostar
but the one hour stated was actually two and a half due to the
seemingly pointless delays. We were also fobbed off rather bluntly by
stories that there was "no point" leaving any earlier as the chalets
were not ready which simply wasn't true as we were the first occupants
and on arrival our chalet host told us he had been up since 5:30 AM
awaiting us.

The problems did not end there, the next was one of serious concern.
There was clearly a fault with the coach as once the engine was
running again more exhaust fumes entered. This was extremely
unpleasant and hazardous; passengers were coughing and people's eyes
were watering. This was extremely concerning for health reasons I'm
sure you'd agree.

2. The chalet & service

We were generally pleased with the chalet and were greeted very
cordially by our chalet Host XXX. However, there were several issues
with the chalet:

- There was only one key for the chalet (not just for the guests but
for our host as well)

- The ski "locker" had no key at all so could not be locked - this
was of great concern as I'd had my skis stolen the year before.

- On one side of our bed there were 3 slats missing so the mattress
simply fell through - we had to put a wardrobe door under the mattress
in order to sleep on it. On the other side a slat was missing in the
middle and I awoke with severe back ache the next morning (the bed was
fixed the next day once we'd reported it).

- The upstairs toilet leaked and so had to be fixed. We were without
this for the better part of two days which not only meant sharing one
toilet but no toilet was available if the shower was in use.

- The door on the bedroom would not shut this giving even less privacy
in the already small room.

There were other areas that did not affect us directly such as a
dishwasher that leaked all over the floor, a shower that didn't drain
properly and oven that had to be replaced that all contributed to an
air of chaos and disorganisation rather than of relaxation one expects
on a holiday, especially one booked 6 months in advance. Out chalet
host Ian, did a great job under some very trying circumstances.

We were pleased with the chalet location but the description in the
brochure as 3 minutes walk to the lifts was somewhat of a joke with
ski boots and skis!

Resort staff were friendly and generally helpful. However, we were
offered "ski-do" trips which we decided to book on the birthday of one
of our group. The evening before we were due to go we were told that
the booking hadn't been made and we had to do it ourselves which
involved wasted skiing time going to sort out the booking.

One evening our chalet host did not return to the chalet until after
7:30 pm. The reason, we were told, is that he and other chalet hosts
had been left in Albertville after doing the weekly shop as their
coaches did not return to pick them up. As a result our meal was very
late and not of a very high quality - we sympathised with Ian, our
chalet host as he'd been let down and had to prepare a meal quickly.

We generally felt that your resort staff worked very hard with no
support from Crystal which they must have found very frustrating.

3. Getting back

We were given clear instructions that we were to be outside a nearby
supermarket at 7:55 PM on departure day where we would be picked up by
coach number 41. We waited 40 minutes in the cold and rain before a
Thompson coach turned up with no number nor indication that it was for
Crystal passengers as well. The Thompson rep apologised for being a
"few minutes" late as she had our pick up time as 8:35 PM, I therefore
showed her the written instructions we had stating 7:55 PM; another
result of poor management and organisation. We would not have minded
the wait in our chalet but standing outside was most unpleasant
especially as one of our group was suffering from a chest infection.

Neither on the way down to Moutiers nor upon arrival at the station
did we have a single address from a rep. We didn't mind that we
weren't thanked for booking with Crystal or wished a safe journey home
etc., but we didn't expect to be just dumped at Moutiers station
without any idea of what the procedure was. Finally we managed to find
a helpful rep from Ski World (we actually saw 3 from ski World and not
one from Crystal) who helpfully informed us what the procedure was.

All in all, we had a great holiday, but I'm afraid to say this was
largely in spite of Crystal and not because of. Most interaction with
Crystal led to frustration or completely wrong information.

We expected a great deal more from a large tour operator but
Crystal's whole attitude smacked of doing the absolute minimum to get
by. The problems did NOT appear to be due to the resort staff
themselves, rather a poor support and management structure behind
them.

The general excuse was that this was the first real week of the
season. However, I don't expect my Christmas holiday to be a "warm up"
for poorly trained or inexperienced staff or problems that should have
been checked and sorted prior to our arrival.

I don't think I would book with or recommend Crystal again.

/letter ends

I felt compelled to complain as I'd already given Crystal the benefit
of the doubt before after one of their cock ups which had our group
having cleared customs at the Paris railway station and all our bags
left on the concourse as the Crystal rep assured us they'd follow.
Thus I had to be escorted back by French customs officials to collect
8 people's luggage.

The first thing I always say to my booking agent is, "even if you've
got a week in Val d'Isere for £100 - I still wouldn't take it if it's
with Crystal".

Sounds like you had a pretty poor time of it. I have been using Crystal for
at least the last 10 years and have never had a problem and always been
happy with the chalets. One year I booked an extra holiday and had to go
with Inghams - that was terrible!
"Roger" wrote in message
m...
Steve Haigh wrote in message
...
ash wrote:
What is wrong with Crystal???? We always use them and they are far
better
than Inghams, Thompson etc especially for catered chalets.

Rather than state why I'll never touch Crystal again here's a letter I
wrote to them a while back. Despite the holiday being in Meribel the
reply opened with 'regard your recent holiday to Italy' - and barely
managed to apologise.

letter

Chalet xxx, Meribel-Mottaret 22 - 29 December 2001

Dear Sir / Madam

I am writing to complain of the substandard service we received from
Crystal on our recent holiday at the above chalet.

There were three main areas of concern: getting to the resort, issues
with the chalet and getting back:

1. Getting there

We were extremely happy that despite industrial action by Eurtostar
staff, our train left Waterloo on time and arrived at 5:50 AM the next
morning in Moutiers dead on time.

We then found the Crystal reps and were directed to our coach by 6 AM
to be told that we'd be on our way to the resort by 6:30 AM. However,
we were unable to wait on the coach as, for some reason, it was full
of exhaust fumes which we were told were "normal". So we had to wait
outside in the cold until the fumes died down.

6:30 AM came and went as the "reps" organised lift passes etc. On
every other ski holiday I've been on this is arranged on the move but
we were told we could not go until it was done. It later transpired
that the "reps" were in fact resort nannies, not trained for what they
were doing hence taking extra long time. We were constantly told we
were "about to leave" and then just sat there. No one took control of
the situation and told us what was actually happening.

So, after a long, cold, tiring and somewhat smelly wait for an hour
and a forty minutes our coach finally moved at around 7:30 AM (by this
time we'd long been the only coach in the station car park as all the
other tour operators' coaches managed to leave promptly).

The short coach transfer was one of the appeals of going via Eurostar
but the one hour stated was actually two and a half due to the
seemingly pointless delays. We were also fobbed off rather bluntly by
stories that there was "no point" leaving any earlier as the chalets
were not ready which simply wasn't true as we were the first occupants
and on arrival our chalet host told us he had been up since 5:30 AM
awaiting us.

The problems did not end there, the next was one of serious concern.
There was clearly a fault with the coach as once the engine was
running again more exhaust fumes entered. This was extremely
unpleasant and hazardous; passengers were coughing and people's eyes
were watering. This was extremely concerning for health reasons I'm
sure you'd agree.

2. The chalet & service

We were generally pleased with the chalet and were greeted very
cordially by our chalet Host XXX. However, there were several issues
with the chalet:

- There was only one key for the chalet (not just for the guests but
for our host as well)

- The ski "locker" had no key at all so could not be locked - this
was of great concern as I'd had my skis stolen the year before.

- On one side of our bed there were 3 slats missing so the mattress
simply fell through - we had to put a wardrobe door under the mattress
in order to sleep on it. On the other side a slat was missing in the
middle and I awoke with severe back ache the next morning (the bed was
fixed the next day once we'd reported it).

- The upstairs toilet leaked and so had to be fixed. We were without
this for the better part of two days which not only meant sharing one
toilet but no toilet was available if the shower was in use.

- The door on the bedroom would not shut this giving even less privacy
in the already small room.

There were other areas that did not affect us directly such as a
dishwasher that leaked all over the floor, a shower that didn't drain
properly and oven that had to be replaced that all contributed to an
air of chaos and disorganisation rather than of relaxation one expects
on a holiday, especially one booked 6 months in advance. Out chalet
host Ian, did a great job under some very trying circumstances.

We were pleased with the chalet location but the description in the
brochure as 3 minutes walk to the lifts was somewhat of a joke with
ski boots and skis!

Resort staff were friendly and generally helpful. However, we were
offered "ski-do" trips which we decided to book on the birthday of one
of our group. The evening before we were due to go we were told that
the booking hadn't been made and we had to do it ourselves which
involved wasted skiing time going to sort out the booking.

One evening our chalet host did not return to the chalet until after
7:30 pm. The reason, we were told, is that he and other chalet hosts
had been left in Albertville after doing the weekly shop as their
coaches did not return to pick them up. As a result our meal was very
late and not of a very high quality - we sympathised with Ian, our
chalet host as he'd been let down and had to prepare a meal quickly.

We generally felt that your resort staff worked very hard with no
support from Crystal which they must have found very frustrating.

3. Getting back

We were given clear instructions that we were to be outside a nearby
supermarket at 7:55 PM on departure day where we would be picked up by
coach number 41. We waited 40 minutes in the cold and rain before a
Thompson coach turned up with no number nor indication that it was for
Crystal passengers as well. The Thompson rep apologised for being a
"few minutes" late as she had our pick up time as 8:35 PM, I therefore
showed her the written instructions we had stating 7:55 PM; another
result of poor management and organisation. We would not have minded
the wait in our chalet but standing outside was most unpleasant
especially as one of our group was suffering from a chest infection.

Neither on the way down to Moutiers nor upon arrival at the station
did we have a single address from a rep. We didn't mind that we
weren't thanked for booking with Crystal or wished a safe journey home
etc., but we didn't expect to be just dumped at Moutiers station
without any idea of what the procedure was. Finally we managed to find
a helpful rep from Ski World (we actually saw 3 from ski World and not
one from Crystal) who helpfully informed us what the procedure was.

All in all, we had a great holiday, but I'm afraid to say this was
largely in spite of Crystal and not because of. Most interaction with
Crystal led to frustration or completely wrong information.

We expected a great deal more from a large tour operator but
Crystal's whole attitude smacked of doing the absolute minimum to get
by. The problems did NOT appear to be due to the resort staff
themselves, rather a poor support and management structure behind
them.

The general excuse was that this was the first real week of the
season. However, I don't expect my Christmas holiday to be a "warm up"
for poorly trained or inexperienced staff or problems that should have
been checked and sorted prior to our arrival.

I don't think I would book with or recommend Crystal again.

/letter ends

I felt compelled to complain as I'd already given Crystal the benefit
of the doubt before after one of their cock ups which had our group
having cleared customs at the Paris railway station and all our bags
left on the concourse as the Crystal rep assured us they'd follow.
Thus I had to be escorted back by French customs officials to collect
8 people's luggage.

The first thing I always say to my booking agent is, "even if you've
got a week in Val d'Isere for £100 - I still wouldn't take it if it's
with Crystal".

Yn erthygl , sgrifennodd
wallace :
We intend to have our first skiing holiday this winter but don't know where
to start. We would like some advice on where to go and when. We are a family
of 4 (2 teenagers) and would have to go either over New Year or during
school Easter hols. I have loads of questions to ask but want to get the hol
sorted first. Any advice?

You don't say if you intend to fly or drive. Driving is a real option.
I always suggest people drive and book their own accommodation, but I
suppose if you're all beginners, you may want a package.

Driving has the advantages:
1. You can get around more easily - say drive to another resort for a day
2. If there's no snow at your resort, you may have to use your car to get
to snow
3. You can bring back as much cheap booze etc as your car can carry
4. No worries about airport transfers, parking or getting a lift to the
airport at this end, etc.

The disadvantages:
1. Takes longer (24 hours typically from my home in mid Wales to the
apartment door in Switzerland, including the ferry)
2. Driving overnight is tiring and may affect your first day's skiing
(so only a realistic possibility if there's more than 1 driver)

Adrian
--
Adrian Shaw ais@
Adran Cyfrifiadureg, Prifysgol Cymru, aber.
Aberystwyth, Ceredigion, Cymru ac.
http://users.aber.ac.uk/ais uk

(Adrian D. Shaw) wrote in message ...
Yn erthygl , sgrifennodd
wallace :
We intend to have our first skiing holiday this winter but don't know where
to start. We would like some advice on where to go and when. We are a family
of 4 (2 teenagers) and would have to go either over New Year or during
school Easter hols. I have loads of questions to ask but want to get the hol
sorted first. Any advice?

You don't say if you intend to fly or drive. Driving is a real option.
I always suggest people drive and book their own accommodation, but I
suppose if you're all beginners, you may want a package.

Driving has the advantages:
1. You can get around more easily - say drive to another resort for a day
2. If there's no snow at your resort, you may have to use your car to get
to snow
3. You can bring back as much cheap booze etc as your car can carry
4. No worries about airport transfers, parking or getting a lift to the
airport at this end, etc.

The disadvantages:
1. Takes longer (24 hours typically from my home in mid Wales to the
apartment door in Switzerland, including the ferry)
2. Driving overnight is tiring and may affect your first day's skiing
(so only a realistic possibility if there's more than 1 driver)

Adrian


I'm a big fan of driving, especially as I live on the south coast, but
I'd say that unless there's more than 2 people it works out quite
expensive with additional insurance, road tolls, petrol, snow chain
hire etc.

I like the freedom it gives you though - our last day in 3 Vals last
season had most lifts closed due to wind so instead of hanging around
until the following day to leave we simply jumped in the car at noon
and came home earlier and at a more leisurely pace.

Yn erthygl , sgrifennodd
Roger :
I'm a big fan of driving, especially as I live on the south coast, but
I'd say that unless there's more than 2 people it works out quite
expensive with additional insurance

Not a problem for us as we tag it on to our car insurance - we always
go abroad in the summer as well, and it's very little extra to get full
European breakdown cover (with CIS it's around GBP40 or 50 per year for
breakdown cover, including European cover, on top of the car insurance).

road tolls

Easy to avoid if going to Switzerland or Austria. Best route to Switzerland
is Calais-Dunkerque-Lille-Charleroi-Namur-Luxembourg-Metz-Nancy-Epinal-
Mulhouse-Basel (hope I remembered those names right). Fill up with petrol
in Luxembourg. The only slow bit of that route is the 40 miles or so across
the Vosges where it's ordinary road. The rest is fast.

petrol

See above. Lux is cheap, Switzerland relatively cheap too.

snow chain hire

Worth buying. I saw some in Migros (big Swiss supermarket chain) for around
GBP20 (if I remember rightly) last year, and they looked good too.

I like the freedom it gives you though

Absolutely.

Adrian


--
Adrian Shaw ais@
Adran Cyfrifiadureg, Prifysgol Cymru, aber.
Aberystwyth, Ceredigion, Cymru ac.
http://users.aber.ac.uk/ais uk

"Adrian D. Shaw" wrote in message
...
Yn erthygl , sgrifennodd
wallace :
We intend to have our first skiing holiday this winter but don't know
where
to start. We would like some advice on where to go and when. We are a
family
of 4 (2 teenagers) and would have to go either over New Year or during
school Easter hols. I have loads of questions to ask but want to get the
hol
sorted first. Any advice?


We drove (a family of 4, with 2 kids 10 & 12 from Cheshire) to La Plagne at
Easter this year, all organised through Erna Low. We booked everything
through EL as I could save very little booking independently and the tunnel
ticket at £170 was about £50 quid cheaper than the best I could get at the
time. The total cost with accomodation, passes, 3 lots of morning lessons,
tunnel, tolls and juice was about £1700.

Advantages/disadvantages of drivinghave been covered in other posts, and
you'll probably need a roof box, unless you are taking little gear or have a
very big car.

EL were very helpful and the accomodation was fine. We stayed in Belle
Plagne which was ski to and from the appartment door.
The ESF school was 25m away and the instructors were OK with the kids.

Belle Plagne is pretty quiet with not much to do in the day, but the slopes
are pretty good for beginners, and it is high. My wife and kids had only dry
sloped before going.

Easter next year is very early and our schools break up the day before Good
Friday. To do what we did this year and split the journies would mean
travelling on Good Friday to the overnight stay in mid France. What I did
notice was how quiet is seemed this year and having just experienced French
summers holidays in the Vendee, I would want some assurance that with Easter
early, the resorts would not be teeming.

Mike

On 1 Sep 2004 20:41:06 +0100, (Adrian D. Shaw) wrote:


Driving has the advantages:

The disadvantages:
1. Takes longer (24 hours typically from my home in mid Wales to the
apartment door in Switzerland, including the ferry)

Blimey, you obviously driove slowly:-) OK so you're some distance away
within Britain, I know, but even so...

I used to reckon I could get to the Tarentaise in about 12 hours total
from Milton Keynes, so depending on which Swiss resorts, it could be
slightly more or less than that.

2. Driving overnight is tiring and may affect your first day's skiing
(so only a realistic possibility if there's more than 1 driver)

And even then it will make you tired. We used to leave Friday
afternoon, get as far down the Autoroutes as we could before our eyes
closed, then kip for two or three hours in the car before continuing
and arriving in resort around breakfast time on the Saturday morning.
So a full day's skiing was possible, albeit at a slightly reduced pace
from normal :-)

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

"wallace" wrote in message ...
We intend to have our first skiing holiday this winter but don't know where
to start. We would like some advice on where to go and when. We are a family
of 4 (2 teenagers) and would have to go either over New Year or during
school Easter hols. I have loads of questions to ask but want to get the hol
sorted first. Any advice?

Jan


I can strongly reccommend Andorra for good skiing and english speaking
instruction.


Personally I wouldn't stay in Pas De La Casa (too tacky).
Soldeu is a lot smaller. Do try the spas at Caldea.

We went Easter 2002 and finished off the holiday with a couple of days
on the Costa Brava, though Barcelona is also a good foil.

It is easy enough to DIY. You do not need a tour operator. We stayed
in a 4 star hotel in Soldeu last year and had private transport from
the airport and we still beat the best tour operator deals around.

Enjoy

John
www.Goodviews.co.uk

You have to pay road tolls (Vignette) if your using the Motorways in
Austria & Switzerland .

Adrian D. Shaw wrote:

Yn erthygl , sgrifennodd
Roger :

I'm a big fan of driving, especially as I live on the south coast, but
I'd say that unless there's more than 2 people it works out quite
expensive with additional insurance


Not a problem for us as we tag it on to our car insurance - we always
go abroad in the summer as well, and it's very little extra to get full
European breakdown cover (with CIS it's around GBP40 or 50 per year for
breakdown cover, including European cover, on top of the car insurance).


road tolls


Easy to avoid if going to Switzerland or Austria. Best route to Switzerland
is Calais-Dunkerque-Lille-Charleroi-Namur-Luxembourg-Metz-Nancy-Epinal-
Mulhouse-Basel (hope I remembered those names right). Fill up with petrol
in Luxembourg. The only slow bit of that route is the 40 miles or so across
the Vosges where it's ordinary road. The rest is fast.


petrol


See above. Lux is cheap, Switzerland relatively cheap too.


snow chain hire


Worth buying. I saw some in Migros (big Swiss supermarket chain) for around
GBP20 (if I remember rightly) last year, and they looked good too.


I like the freedom it gives you though


Absolutely.

Adrian

John Owens wrote:

snip

It is easy enough to DIY. You do not need a tour operator. We stayed
in a 4 star hotel in Soldeu last year and had private transport from
the airport and we still beat the best tour operator deals around.

Who did you use for the transfer? from which airport and how much was it?


--
Chris *:-)

Downhill Good, Uphill BAD!

www.suffolkvikings.org.uk