First skiing hol advice needed

We intend to have our first skiing holiday this winter but don't know where
to start. We would like some advice on where to go and when. We are a family
of 4 (2 teenagers) and would have to go either over New Year or during
school Easter hols. I have loads of questions to ask but want to get the hol
sorted first. Any advice?

Jan

"wallace" wrote in message ...
We intend to have our first skiing holiday this winter but don't know where
to start. We would like some advice on where to go and when. We are a family
of 4 (2 teenagers) and would have to go either over New Year or during
school Easter hols. I have loads of questions to ask but want to get the hol
sorted first. Any advice?

Jan

Don't waste money going to a big resort like Val d'Isere, 3 valleys,
Chamonix etc - as you'll be paying high lift pass prices for slopes
you'll never see.

Get a good travel brochure (but not Crystal) and find a resort with no
more than say 50 km of runs. Look for ones with high ratings for
beginners and lots of easy (blue & green) runs. Ideally you want a
resort with easy access to the gentle slopes - and certainly not one
where you're expected to ski down a black run to get back to the
resort.

I'd recommend somewhere in Andorra - the ski schools have good
reputations and it's a lot cheaper than France / Austria etc.

Also check out resort reports on www.ifyouski.com. Oh and I reckon a
catered chalet is by far the best way to go....

Good luck.

What is wrong with Crystal???? We always use them and they are far better
than Inghams, Thompson etc especially for catered chalets.
"Roger" wrote in message
...
"wallace" wrote in message
...
We intend to have our first skiing holiday this winter but don't know
where
to start. We would like some advice on where to go and when. We are a
family
of 4 (2 teenagers) and would have to go either over New Year or during
school Easter hols. I have loads of questions to ask but want to get the
hol
sorted first. Any advice?

Jan

Don't waste money going to a big resort like Val d'Isere, 3 valleys,
Chamonix etc - as you'll be paying high lift pass prices for slopes
you'll never see.

Get a good travel brochure (but not Crystal) and find a resort with no
more than say 50 km of runs. Look for ones with high ratings for
beginners and lots of easy (blue & green) runs. Ideally you want a
resort with easy access to the gentle slopes - and certainly not one
where you're expected to ski down a black run to get back to the
resort.

I'd recommend somewhere in Andorra - the ski schools have good
reputations and it's a lot cheaper than France / Austria etc.

Also check out resort reports on www.ifyouski.com. Oh and I reckon a
catered chalet is by far the best way to go....

Good luck.

ash wrote:
What is wrong with Crystal???? We always use them and they are far better
than Inghams, Thompson etc especially for catered chalets.
Crystal used to have a reputation as being at the lower quality end of
the market in terms of accomodation and service. My own personal
experience backed this up. This may or may not have been the case across
the board but many people steered clear of them after bad experiences.

Over the past few seasons it seems as though Crystal have caught up with
the other main stream operators. I can't speak from personal experience
as I haven't been on a package trip for a long time, but from the
comments of others (such as yourself) there seems to be little to choose
between the big operators and Crystal's poor reputation is more a
historical hangover than anything else.

If you do have problems with Crystal (or anyone else) I'd suggest you do
it yourself. It's more fun, it doesn't have to cost more (and can indeed
be cheeper) and you can be far more flexible with your plans.

Steve Haigh wrote in message ...
ash wrote:
What is wrong with Crystal???? We always use them and they are far better
than Inghams, Thompson etc especially for catered chalets.

Rather than state why I'll never touch Crystal again here's a letter I
wrote to them a while back. Despite the holiday being in Meribel the
reply opened with 'regard your recent holiday to Italy' - and barely
managed to apologise.

letter

Chalet xxx, Meribel-Mottaret 22 - 29 December 2001

Dear Sir / Madam

I am writing to complain of the substandard service we received from
Crystal on our recent holiday at the above chalet.

There were three main areas of concern: getting to the resort, issues
with the chalet and getting back:

1. Getting there

We were extremely happy that despite industrial action by Eurtostar
staff, our train left Waterloo on time and arrived at 5:50 AM the next
morning in Moutiers dead on time.

We then found the Crystal reps and were directed to our coach by 6 AM
to be told that we'd be on our way to the resort by 6:30 AM. However,
we were unable to wait on the coach as, for some reason, it was full
of exhaust fumes which we were told were "normal". So we had to wait
outside in the cold until the fumes died down.

6:30 AM came and went as the "reps" organised lift passes etc. On
every other ski holiday I've been on this is arranged on the move but
we were told we could not go until it was done. It later transpired
that the "reps" were in fact resort nannies, not trained for what they
were doing hence taking extra long time. We were constantly told we
were "about to leave" and then just sat there. No one took control of
the situation and told us what was actually happening.

So, after a long, cold, tiring and somewhat smelly wait for an hour
and a forty minutes our coach finally moved at around 7:30 AM (by this
time we'd long been the only coach in the station car park as all the
other tour operators' coaches managed to leave promptly).

The short coach transfer was one of the appeals of going via Eurostar
but the one hour stated was actually two and a half due to the
seemingly pointless delays. We were also fobbed off rather bluntly by
stories that there was "no point" leaving any earlier as the chalets
were not ready which simply wasn't true as we were the first occupants
and on arrival our chalet host told us he had been up since 5:30 AM
awaiting us.

The problems did not end there, the next was one of serious concern.
There was clearly a fault with the coach as once the engine was
running again more exhaust fumes entered. This was extremely
unpleasant and hazardous; passengers were coughing and people's eyes
were watering. This was extremely concerning for health reasons I'm
sure you'd agree.

2. The chalet & service

We were generally pleased with the chalet and were greeted very
cordially by our chalet Host XXX. However, there were several issues
with the chalet:

- There was only one key for the chalet (not just for the guests but
for our host as well)

- The ski "locker" had no key at all so could not be locked - this
was of great concern as I'd had my skis stolen the year before.

- On one side of our bed there were 3 slats missing so the mattress
simply fell through - we had to put a wardrobe door under the mattress
in order to sleep on it. On the other side a slat was missing in the
middle and I awoke with severe back ache the next morning (the bed was
fixed the next day once we'd reported it).

- The upstairs toilet leaked and so had to be fixed. We were without
this for the better part of two days which not only meant sharing one
toilet but no toilet was available if the shower was in use.

- The door on the bedroom would not shut this giving even less privacy
in the already small room.

There were other areas that did not affect us directly such as a
dishwasher that leaked all over the floor, a shower that didn't drain
properly and oven that had to be replaced that all contributed to an
air of chaos and disorganisation rather than of relaxation one expects
on a holiday, especially one booked 6 months in advance. Out chalet
host Ian, did a great job under some very trying circumstances.

We were pleased with the chalet location but the description in the
brochure as 3 minutes walk to the lifts was somewhat of a joke with
ski boots and skis!

Resort staff were friendly and generally helpful. However, we were
offered "ski-do" trips which we decided to book on the birthday of one
of our group. The evening before we were due to go we were told that
the booking hadn't been made and we had to do it ourselves which
involved wasted skiing time going to sort out the booking.

One evening our chalet host did not return to the chalet until after
7:30 pm. The reason, we were told, is that he and other chalet hosts
had been left in Albertville after doing the weekly shop as their
coaches did not return to pick them up. As a result our meal was very
late and not of a very high quality - we sympathised with Ian, our
chalet host as he'd been let down and had to prepare a meal quickly.

We generally felt that your resort staff worked very hard with no
support from Crystal which they must have found very frustrating.

3. Getting back

We were given clear instructions that we were to be outside a nearby
supermarket at 7:55 PM on departure day where we would be picked up by
coach number 41. We waited 40 minutes in the cold and rain before a
Thompson coach turned up with no number nor indication that it was for
Crystal passengers as well. The Thompson rep apologised for being a
"few minutes" late as she had our pick up time as 8:35 PM, I therefore
showed her the written instructions we had stating 7:55 PM; another
result of poor management and organisation. We would not have minded
the wait in our chalet but standing outside was most unpleasant
especially as one of our group was suffering from a chest infection.

Neither on the way down to Moutiers nor upon arrival at the station
did we have a single address from a rep. We didn't mind that we
weren't thanked for booking with Crystal or wished a safe journey home
etc., but we didn't expect to be just dumped at Moutiers station
without any idea of what the procedure was. Finally we managed to find
a helpful rep from Ski World (we actually saw 3 from ski World and not
one from Crystal) who helpfully informed us what the procedure was.

All in all, we had a great holiday, but I'm afraid to say this was
largely in spite of Crystal and not because of. Most interaction with
Crystal led to frustration or completely wrong information.

We expected a great deal more from a large tour operator but
Crystal's whole attitude smacked of doing the absolute minimum to get
by. The problems did NOT appear to be due to the resort staff
themselves, rather a poor support and management structure behind
them.

The general excuse was that this was the first real week of the
season. However, I don't expect my Christmas holiday to be a "warm up"
for poorly trained or inexperienced staff or problems that should have
been checked and sorted prior to our arrival.

I don't think I would book with or recommend Crystal again.

/letter ends

I felt compelled to complain as I'd already given Crystal the benefit
of the doubt before after one of their cock ups which had our group
having cleared customs at the Paris railway station and all our bags
left on the concourse as the Crystal rep assured us they'd follow.
Thus I had to be escorted back by French customs officials to collect
8 people's luggage.

The first thing I always say to my booking agent is, "even if you've
got a week in Val d'Isere for £100 - I still wouldn't take it if it's
with Crystal".

Sounds like you had a pretty poor time of it. I have been using Crystal for
at least the last 10 years and have never had a problem and always been
happy with the chalets. One year I booked an extra holiday and had to go
with Inghams - that was terrible!
"Roger" wrote in message
m...
Steve Haigh wrote in message
...
ash wrote:
What is wrong with Crystal???? We always use them and they are far
better
than Inghams, Thompson etc especially for catered chalets.

Rather than state why I'll never touch Crystal again here's a letter I
wrote to them a while back. Despite the holiday being in Meribel the
reply opened with 'regard your recent holiday to Italy' - and barely
managed to apologise.

letter

Chalet xxx, Meribel-Mottaret 22 - 29 December 2001

Dear Sir / Madam

I am writing to complain of the substandard service we received from
Crystal on our recent holiday at the above chalet.

There were three main areas of concern: getting to the resort, issues
with the chalet and getting back:

1. Getting there

We were extremely happy that despite industrial action by Eurtostar
staff, our train left Waterloo on time and arrived at 5:50 AM the next
morning in Moutiers dead on time.

We then found the Crystal reps and were directed to our coach by 6 AM
to be told that we'd be on our way to the resort by 6:30 AM. However,
we were unable to wait on the coach as, for some reason, it was full
of exhaust fumes which we were told were "normal". So we had to wait
outside in the cold until the fumes died down.

6:30 AM came and went as the "reps" organised lift passes etc. On
every other ski holiday I've been on this is arranged on the move but
we were told we could not go until it was done. It later transpired
that the "reps" were in fact resort nannies, not trained for what they
were doing hence taking extra long time. We were constantly told we
were "about to leave" and then just sat there. No one took control of
the situation and told us what was actually happening.

So, after a long, cold, tiring and somewhat smelly wait for an hour
and a forty minutes our coach finally moved at around 7:30 AM (by this
time we'd long been the only coach in the station car park as all the
other tour operators' coaches managed to leave promptly).

The short coach transfer was one of the appeals of going via Eurostar
but the one hour stated was actually two and a half due to the
seemingly pointless delays. We were also fobbed off rather bluntly by
stories that there was "no point" leaving any earlier as the chalets
were not ready which simply wasn't true as we were the first occupants
and on arrival our chalet host told us he had been up since 5:30 AM
awaiting us.

The problems did not end there, the next was one of serious concern.
There was clearly a fault with the coach as once the engine was
running again more exhaust fumes entered. This was extremely
unpleasant and hazardous; passengers were coughing and people's eyes
were watering. This was extremely concerning for health reasons I'm
sure you'd agree.

2. The chalet & service

We were generally pleased with the chalet and were greeted very
cordially by our chalet Host XXX. However, there were several issues
with the chalet:

- There was only one key for the chalet (not just for the guests but
for our host as well)

- The ski "locker" had no key at all so could not be locked - this
was of great concern as I'd had my skis stolen the year before.

- On one side of our bed there were 3 slats missing so the mattress
simply fell through - we had to put a wardrobe door under the mattress
in order to sleep on it. On the other side a slat was missing in the
middle and I awoke with severe back ache the next morning (the bed was
fixed the next day once we'd reported it).

- The upstairs toilet leaked and so had to be fixed. We were without
this for the better part of two days which not only meant sharing one
toilet but no toilet was available if the shower was in use.

- The door on the bedroom would not shut this giving even less privacy
in the already small room.

There were other areas that did not affect us directly such as a
dishwasher that leaked all over the floor, a shower that didn't drain
properly and oven that had to be replaced that all contributed to an
air of chaos and disorganisation rather than of relaxation one expects
on a holiday, especially one booked 6 months in advance. Out chalet
host Ian, did a great job under some very trying circumstances.

We were pleased with the chalet location but the description in the
brochure as 3 minutes walk to the lifts was somewhat of a joke with
ski boots and skis!

Resort staff were friendly and generally helpful. However, we were
offered "ski-do" trips which we decided to book on the birthday of one
of our group. The evening before we were due to go we were told that
the booking hadn't been made and we had to do it ourselves which
involved wasted skiing time going to sort out the booking.

One evening our chalet host did not return to the chalet until after
7:30 pm. The reason, we were told, is that he and other chalet hosts
had been left in Albertville after doing the weekly shop as their
coaches did not return to pick them up. As a result our meal was very
late and not of a very high quality - we sympathised with Ian, our
chalet host as he'd been let down and had to prepare a meal quickly.

We generally felt that your resort staff worked very hard with no
support from Crystal which they must have found very frustrating.

3. Getting back

We were given clear instructions that we were to be outside a nearby
supermarket at 7:55 PM on departure day where we would be picked up by
coach number 41. We waited 40 minutes in the cold and rain before a
Thompson coach turned up with no number nor indication that it was for
Crystal passengers as well. The Thompson rep apologised for being a
"few minutes" late as she had our pick up time as 8:35 PM, I therefore
showed her the written instructions we had stating 7:55 PM; another
result of poor management and organisation. We would not have minded
the wait in our chalet but standing outside was most unpleasant
especially as one of our group was suffering from a chest infection.

Neither on the way down to Moutiers nor upon arrival at the station
did we have a single address from a rep. We didn't mind that we
weren't thanked for booking with Crystal or wished a safe journey home
etc., but we didn't expect to be just dumped at Moutiers station
without any idea of what the procedure was. Finally we managed to find
a helpful rep from Ski World (we actually saw 3 from ski World and not
one from Crystal) who helpfully informed us what the procedure was.

All in all, we had a great holiday, but I'm afraid to say this was
largely in spite of Crystal and not because of. Most interaction with
Crystal led to frustration or completely wrong information.

We expected a great deal more from a large tour operator but
Crystal's whole attitude smacked of doing the absolute minimum to get
by. The problems did NOT appear to be due to the resort staff
themselves, rather a poor support and management structure behind
them.

The general excuse was that this was the first real week of the
season. However, I don't expect my Christmas holiday to be a "warm up"
for poorly trained or inexperienced staff or problems that should have
been checked and sorted prior to our arrival.

I don't think I would book with or recommend Crystal again.

/letter ends

I felt compelled to complain as I'd already given Crystal the benefit
of the doubt before after one of their cock ups which had our group
having cleared customs at the Paris railway station and all our bags
left on the concourse as the Crystal rep assured us they'd follow.
Thus I had to be escorted back by French customs officials to collect
8 people's luggage.

The first thing I always say to my booking agent is, "even if you've
got a week in Val d'Isere for £100 - I still wouldn't take it if it's
with Crystal".

You do seem to have a bad week with crystal! The reps do not have to do
the lift passes, you can do this perfectly easily in the resort. I
always found telling them this stopped them messing about.

The allowing you access to the chalet so early in the morning is, IMHO,
quite a plus for Crystal.


With us crystal have always been OK. The really bad experiences have
been with first choice who left us for 3 hours on a car park in St.
Anton in freezing conditions (apparently the resort manager had been
arrested for a traffic offence and thought his clients were a minor
concern) and presented rather poor quality food, and ski olympic in
Courechevel who managed to loose my wife's skis and compounded it by
appearing not to give a damm. On later holidays both companies gave
adequate service.

John

Roger wrote:
Steve Haigh wrote in message ...

ash wrote:

What is wrong with Crystal???? We always use them and they are far better
than Inghams, Thompson etc especially for catered chalets.


Rather than state why I'll never touch Crystal again here's a letter I
wrote to them a while back. Despite the holiday being in Meribel the
reply opened with 'regard your recent holiday to Italy' - and barely
managed to apologise.

letter

Chalet xxx, Meribel-Mottaret 22 - 29 December 2001

Dear Sir / Madam

I am writing to complain of the substandard service we received from
Crystal on our recent holiday at the above chalet.

There were three main areas of concern: getting to the resort, issues
with the chalet and getting back:

1. Getting there

We were extremely happy that despite industrial action by Eurtostar
staff, our train left Waterloo on time and arrived at 5:50 AM the next
morning in Moutiers dead on time.

We then found the Crystal reps and were directed to our coach by 6 AM
to be told that we'd be on our way to the resort by 6:30 AM. However,
we were unable to wait on the coach as, for some reason, it was full
of exhaust fumes which we were told were "normal". So we had to wait
outside in the cold until the fumes died down.

6:30 AM came and went as the "reps" organised lift passes etc. On
every other ski holiday I've been on this is arranged on the move but
we were told we could not go until it was done. It later transpired
that the "reps" were in fact resort nannies, not trained for what they
were doing hence taking extra long time. We were constantly told we
were "about to leave" and then just sat there. No one took control of
the situation and told us what was actually happening.

So, after a long, cold, tiring and somewhat smelly wait for an hour
and a forty minutes our coach finally moved at around 7:30 AM (by this
time we'd long been the only coach in the station car park as all the
other tour operators' coaches managed to leave promptly).

The short coach transfer was one of the appeals of going via Eurostar
but the one hour stated was actually two and a half due to the
seemingly pointless delays. We were also fobbed off rather bluntly by
stories that there was "no point" leaving any earlier as the chalets
were not ready which simply wasn't true as we were the first occupants
and on arrival our chalet host told us he had been up since 5:30 AM
awaiting us.

The problems did not end there, the next was one of serious concern.
There was clearly a fault with the coach as once the engine was
running again more exhaust fumes entered. This was extremely
unpleasant and hazardous; passengers were coughing and people's eyes
were watering. This was extremely concerning for health reasons I'm
sure you'd agree.

2. The chalet & service

We were generally pleased with the chalet and were greeted very
cordially by our chalet Host XXX. However, there were several issues
with the chalet:

- There was only one key for the chalet (not just for the guests but
for our host as well)

- The ski "locker" had no key at all so could not be locked - this
was of great concern as I'd had my skis stolen the year before.

- On one side of our bed there were 3 slats missing so the mattress
simply fell through - we had to put a wardrobe door under the mattress
in order to sleep on it. On the other side a slat was missing in the
middle and I awoke with severe back ache the next morning (the bed was
fixed the next day once we'd reported it).

- The upstairs toilet leaked and so had to be fixed. We were without
this for the better part of two days which not only meant sharing one
toilet but no toilet was available if the shower was in use.

- The door on the bedroom would not shut this giving even less privacy
in the already small room.

There were other areas that did not affect us directly such as a
dishwasher that leaked all over the floor, a shower that didn't drain
properly and oven that had to be replaced that all contributed to an
air of chaos and disorganisation rather than of relaxation one expects
on a holiday, especially one booked 6 months in advance. Out chalet
host Ian, did a great job under some very trying circumstances.

We were pleased with the chalet location but the description in the
brochure as 3 minutes walk to the lifts was somewhat of a joke with
ski boots and skis!

Resort staff were friendly and generally helpful. However, we were
offered "ski-do" trips which we decided to book on the birthday of one
of our group. The evening before we were due to go we were told that
the booking hadn't been made and we had to do it ourselves which
involved wasted skiing time going to sort out the booking.

One evening our chalet host did not return to the chalet until after
7:30 pm. The reason, we were told, is that he and other chalet hosts
had been left in Albertville after doing the weekly shop as their
coaches did not return to pick them up. As a result our meal was very
late and not of a very high quality - we sympathised with Ian, our
chalet host as he'd been let down and had to prepare a meal quickly.

We generally felt that your resort staff worked very hard with no
support from Crystal which they must have found very frustrating.

3. Getting back

We were given clear instructions that we were to be outside a nearby
supermarket at 7:55 PM on departure day where we would be picked up by
coach number 41. We waited 40 minutes in the cold and rain before a
Thompson coach turned up with no number nor indication that it was for
Crystal passengers as well. The Thompson rep apologised for being a
"few minutes" late as she had our pick up time as 8:35 PM, I therefore
showed her the written instructions we had stating 7:55 PM; another
result of poor management and organisation. We would not have minded
the wait in our chalet but standing outside was most unpleasant
especially as one of our group was suffering from a chest infection.

Neither on the way down to Moutiers nor upon arrival at the station
did we have a single address from a rep. We didn't mind that we
weren't thanked for booking with Crystal or wished a safe journey home
etc., but we didn't expect to be just dumped at Moutiers station
without any idea of what the procedure was. Finally we managed to find
a helpful rep from Ski World (we actually saw 3 from ski World and not
one from Crystal) who helpfully informed us what the procedure was.

All in all, we had a great holiday, but I'm afraid to say this was
largely in spite of Crystal and not because of. Most interaction with
Crystal led to frustration or completely wrong information.

We expected a great deal more from a large tour operator but
Crystal's whole attitude smacked of doing the absolute minimum to get
by. The problems did NOT appear to be due to the resort staff
themselves, rather a poor support and management structure behind
them.

The general excuse was that this was the first real week of the
season. However, I don't expect my Christmas holiday to be a "warm up"
for poorly trained or inexperienced staff or problems that should have
been checked and sorted prior to our arrival.

I don't think I would book with or recommend Crystal again.

/letter ends

I felt compelled to complain as I'd already given Crystal the benefit
of the doubt before after one of their cock ups which had our group
having cleared customs at the Paris railway station and all our bags
left on the concourse as the Crystal rep assured us they'd follow.
Thus I had to be escorted back by French customs officials to collect
8 people's luggage.

The first thing I always say to my booking agent is, "even if you've
got a week in Val d'Isere for £100 - I still wouldn't take it if it's
with Crystal".

I'd agree with most of what Roger says. Certainly a catered chalet is IMHO
the best way to go, having done chalets for a few years we'd not do hotels
again. The big resorts are great but are likely to be wasted on 1st timers,
and as he says, they can be bloody expensive. Cannot say about Andorra as
I've not been but Italy is worth a look - Claviere, or Serre Chevalier (In
France close by), or perhaps Sause D'Oulx, but that can be full of Brits on
cheap packages and school trips. Also look out the Italian Dolomites.

Check out Equity Total Ski - they have quite a few smaller and cheaper
resorts and if you're beginners their prices include kit hire, tuition and
lift pass. Their initial price looks a bit steep, but there are no add-ons,
so overall the prices are competitive - they're on 01273 298298, or on the
web. We've been skiing for 10years and in the early days we found them
pretty good. You can always phone and talk to somebody who's been there and
understands what you are looking for. I cannot say about Crystal, but 1st
Choice has been consistently crap, the prices are Ok but the accommodation
and food is always dreadful - don't even think about it. On the other hand
we had a truly 1st class week in a chalet with Airtours last February and
cannot recommend them high enough.

Rob




"wallace" wrote in message
...
We intend to have our first skiing holiday this winter but don't know
where
to start. We would like some advice on where to go and when. We are a
family
of 4 (2 teenagers) and would have to go either over New Year or during
school Easter hols. I have loads of questions to ask but want to get the
hol
sorted first. Any advice?

Jan

"Rob White" wrote in message
...
| I'd agree with most of what Roger says. Certainly a catered chalet is
IMHO
| the best way to go, having done chalets for a few years we'd not do
hotels
| again.

Chalets v. hotels??? Don't forget the third alternative, and IMO
(unsurprisingly!) the best of the lot.

Self-catering......

Pete

http://bsm.alpesprovence.net - SNOWeSCAPE

Unless you're the mother who wants a break from the oven :-)

Take a break - find a small local hotel and put your feet up. IMHO the small
local hotels are what it's all part of. www.seehof-laax.ch -
http://www.poestlilaax.ch/ are two examples from my neck of the mountains.

Simon Brown
www.hb9drv.ch

----- Original Message -----
From: "PG"

Self-catering......