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best base layer?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 13th 12, 04:31 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
gr[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 78
Default best base layer?

1) I perspire a whole lot
2) When skiing I need to change socks and gloves after a couple hours
because they get so damp, my hands or feet get cold (they get cold
easily anyway, something I inherited)
3) I have mostly used Sporthill base layers, but they don't really seem
to wick very well. Sporthill 3SP fabric (not really a baselayer) however
is great (warm and very breathable).
4) Some kind of shirt I got from LL Bean, seems to be a dual layer, and
is somewhat better.

Question; What brand and/or material is the best kind of base layer
that can handle lots of perspiration? Smartwool, Capalain, Craft etc???

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old March 13th 12, 04:58 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 572
Default best base layer?

Gary, What has been your experience going light on base layers and outer
garments? For example, using only one shirt and silk-thickness
longjohns? For example, unless it's really cold I use different
thickness vests to increase or decrease warmth, whether under an
appropriate jacket or above a shirt - and I use turtlenecks a lot
unless it's warm. If it's colder, I'll stick a silk or silk-thickness
turtleneck on (easy to carry). For longjohns, either silk or
Patagonia's silk-like fabric or their Capilene 1 longjohns work really
well in most conditions for me (watch for sales). Then it's just the
outer pants I vary, from Hind or Sporthill's original Voyage pant (zone
2) to the looser fitting 3SP pant to Craft's thicker cold pants.

For socks, I really like Bridgedale's X-C model, but maybe you need
to experiment with light (stay away from Smartwool, they're widely
recognized as crap - not sure about their other products). As for
gloves, I'm the opposite of you and prefer warmer than colder,
Sinisalo's lobster being the only one of the type that's worked for me,
and their fingered Arctic, with the back straps cut off, being for next
warmer. But again, what's your experience going light, such as the
Yoko Gore-tex glove or Craft's lighter model?

Gene


On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 00:31:31 -0400
gr wrote:

1) I perspire a whole lot
2) When skiing I need to change socks and gloves after a couple hours
because they get so damp, my hands or feet get cold (they get cold
easily anyway, something I inherited)
3) I have mostly used Sporthill base layers, but they don't really
seem to wick very well. Sporthill 3SP fabric (not really a baselayer)
however is great (warm and very breathable).
4) Some kind of shirt I got from LL Bean, seems to be a dual layer,
and is somewhat better.

Question; What brand and/or material is the best kind of base layer
that can handle lots of perspiration? Smartwool, Capalain, Craft
etc???

Thanks!

  #3  
Old March 14th 12, 04:47 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
gr[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 78
Default best base layer?

Gloves have been a problem; I also go for the very warm- Smartwool liner
gloves inside rather heavy mittens (except for very warm times, even the
lobster mitts are too cold for me). My hands get cold too easy, but also
perspire way too much, I am looking around for vented mittens to try
this year. Very heavy ragg wool mitts work pretty well, breathe nicely,
but don't block wind and get wet very easily.

Pant are the only thing that I don't have a problem with. I wear
Sporthill xc pants with no base layer, down to about 15 F.

I tried going light this year with just a thin wicking base layer and
various light jackets, but it really didn't help getting soaked too
much. But I did notice that the LLBean base was better than the others I
had, so I am thinking there are some real differences in base layers.



Socks work pretty well for wicking, but trapped inside boots they reach
moisture capacity in a few hours (good thing for lunch stops in a
warming hut!). A thin coolmax sock as base and thicker LL bean
Thinsulate works with a mid-day change.

Gary

On 3/13/2012 12:58 PM, wrote:
Gary, What has been your experience going light on base layers and outer
garments? For example, using only one shirt and silk-thickness
longjohns? For example, unless it's really cold I use different
thickness vests to increase or decrease warmth, whether under an
appropriate jacket or above a shirt - and I use turtlenecks a lot
unless it's warm. If it's colder, I'll stick a silk or silk-thickness
turtleneck on (easy to carry). For longjohns, either silk or
Patagonia's silk-like fabric or their Capilene 1 longjohns work really
well in most conditions for me (watch for sales). Then it's just the
outer pants I vary, from Hind or Sporthill's original Voyage pant (zone
2) to the looser fitting 3SP pant to Craft's thicker cold pants.

For socks, I really like Bridgedale's X-C model, but maybe you need
to experiment with light (stay away from Smartwool, they're widely
recognized as crap - not sure about their other products). As for
gloves, I'm the opposite of you and prefer warmer than colder,
Sinisalo's lobster being the only one of the type that's worked for me,
and their fingered Arctic, with the back straps cut off, being for next
warmer. But again, what's your experience going light, such as the
Yoko Gore-tex glove or Craft's lighter model?

Gene


On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 00:31:31 -0400
wrote:

1) I perspire a whole lot
2) When skiing I need to change socks and gloves after a couple hours
because they get so damp, my hands or feet get cold (they get cold
easily anyway, something I inherited)
3) I have mostly used Sporthill base layers, but they don't really
seem to wick very well. Sporthill 3SP fabric (not really a baselayer)
however is great (warm and very breathable).
4) Some kind of shirt I got from LL Bean, seems to be a dual layer,
and is somewhat better.

Question; What brand and/or material is the best kind of base layer
that can handle lots of perspiration? Smartwool, Capalain, Craft
etc???

Thanks!


  #4  
Old March 15th 12, 05:09 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 572
Default best base layer?

It sounds like you're out for quite a long time, so it would seem
natural to go through some sweating and cold and hopefully back to
sweating again. I also sweat a fair amount but am usually not out
for more than three hours. In that context, I've tried all the brands
of lobster (two finger) gloves available in the U.S. and the only one
that my hands don't get cold in, short of extreme cold temps, is the
Sinisalo lobster. Somehow they're different. But now I find that
rollerskishop.com hasn't dealt with Sinisalo for awhile, just having
old stock and not the lobster, and Sinisalo's website doesn't even show
ski gloves anymore. Oh well...

Gene


On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 00:47:51 -0400
gr wrote:

Gloves have been a problem; I also go for the very warm- Smartwool
liner gloves inside rather heavy mittens (except for very warm times,
even the lobster mitts are too cold for me). My hands get cold too
easy, but also perspire way too much, I am looking around for vented
mittens to try this year. Very heavy ragg wool mitts work pretty
well, breathe nicely, but don't block wind and get wet very easily.

Pant are the only thing that I don't have a problem with. I wear
Sporthill xc pants with no base layer, down to about 15 F.

I tried going light this year with just a thin wicking base layer and
various light jackets, but it really didn't help getting soaked too
much. But I did notice that the LLBean base was better than the
others I had, so I am thinking there are some real differences in
base layers.



Socks work pretty well for wicking, but trapped inside boots they
reach moisture capacity in a few hours (good thing for lunch stops in
a warming hut!). A thin coolmax sock as base and thicker LL bean
Thinsulate works with a mid-day change.

Gary

On 3/13/2012 12:58 PM, wrote:
Gary, What has been your experience going light on base layers and
outer garments? For example, using only one shirt and
silk-thickness longjohns? For example, unless it's really cold I
use different thickness vests to increase or decrease warmth,
whether under an appropriate jacket or above a shirt - and I use
turtlenecks a lot unless it's warm. If it's colder, I'll stick a
silk or silk-thickness turtleneck on (easy to carry). For
longjohns, either silk or Patagonia's silk-like fabric or their
Capilene 1 longjohns work really well in most conditions for me
(watch for sales). Then it's just the outer pants I vary, from
Hind or Sporthill's original Voyage pant (zone
2) to the looser fitting 3SP pant to Craft's thicker cold pants.

For socks, I really like Bridgedale's X-C model, but maybe you
need to experiment with light (stay away from Smartwool, they're
widely recognized as crap - not sure about their other products).
As for gloves, I'm the opposite of you and prefer warmer than
colder, Sinisalo's lobster being the only one of the type that's
worked for me, and their fingered Arctic, with the back straps cut
off, being for next warmer. But again, what's your experience
going light, such as the Yoko Gore-tex glove or Craft's lighter
model?

Gene


On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 00:31:31 -0400
wrote:

1) I perspire a whole lot
2) When skiing I need to change socks and gloves after a couple
hours because they get so damp, my hands or feet get cold (they
get cold easily anyway, something I inherited)
3) I have mostly used Sporthill base layers, but they don't really
seem to wick very well. Sporthill 3SP fabric (not really a
baselayer) however is great (warm and very breathable).
4) Some kind of shirt I got from LL Bean, seems to be a dual layer,
and is somewhat better.

Question; What brand and/or material is the best kind of base
layer that can handle lots of perspiration? Smartwool, Capalain,
Craft etc???

Thanks!


  #5  
Old March 16th 12, 02:04 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
gr[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 78
Default best base layer?

I have been using the Gordini Goretex mitts, not the down ones (lose
insulation when they get wet), but the Goretex doesn't breathe anything
like enough. The lobsters I tried did not have anything like the
insulation that the full mitts do, so that is probably why they were not
all that warm, but maybe the extra surface area of the lobster had some
to do with that.




On 3/15/2012 1:09 AM, wrote:
It sounds like you're out for quite a long time, so it would seem
natural to go through some sweating and cold and hopefully back to
sweating again. I also sweat a fair amount but am usually not out
for more than three hours. In that context, I've tried all the brands
of lobster (two finger) gloves available in the U.S. and the only one
that my hands don't get cold in, short of extreme cold temps, is the
Sinisalo lobster. Somehow they're different. But now I find that
rollerskishop.com hasn't dealt with Sinisalo for awhile, just having
old stock and not the lobster, and Sinisalo's website doesn't even show
ski gloves anymore. Oh well...

Gene


On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 00:47:51 -0400
wrote:

Gloves have been a problem; I also go for the very warm- Smartwool
liner gloves inside rather heavy mittens (except for very warm times,
even the lobster mitts are too cold for me). My hands get cold too
easy, but also perspire way too much, I am looking around for vented
mittens to try this year. Very heavy ragg wool mitts work pretty
well, breathe nicely, but don't block wind and get wet very easily.

Pant are the only thing that I don't have a problem with. I wear
Sporthill xc pants with no base layer, down to about 15 F.

I tried going light this year with just a thin wicking base layer and
various light jackets, but it really didn't help getting soaked too
much. But I did notice that the LLBean base was better than the
others I had, so I am thinking there are some real differences in
base layers.



Socks work pretty well for wicking, but trapped inside boots they
reach moisture capacity in a few hours (good thing for lunch stops in
a warming hut!). A thin coolmax sock as base and thicker LL bean
Thinsulate works with a mid-day change.

Gary

On 3/13/2012 12:58 PM,
wrote:
Gary, What has been your experience going light on base layers and
outer garments? For example, using only one shirt and
silk-thickness longjohns? For example, unless it's really cold I
use different thickness vests to increase or decrease warmth,
whether under an appropriate jacket or above a shirt - and I use
turtlenecks a lot unless it's warm. If it's colder, I'll stick a
silk or silk-thickness turtleneck on (easy to carry). For
longjohns, either silk or Patagonia's silk-like fabric or their
Capilene 1 longjohns work really well in most conditions for me
(watch for sales). Then it's just the outer pants I vary, from
Hind or Sporthill's original Voyage pant (zone
2) to the looser fitting 3SP pant to Craft's thicker cold pants.

For socks, I really like Bridgedale's X-C model, but maybe you
need to experiment with light (stay away from Smartwool, they're
widely recognized as crap - not sure about their other products).
As for gloves, I'm the opposite of you and prefer warmer than
colder, Sinisalo's lobster being the only one of the type that's
worked for me, and their fingered Arctic, with the back straps cut
off, being for next warmer. But again, what's your experience
going light, such as the Yoko Gore-tex glove or Craft's lighter
model?

Gene


On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 00:31:31 -0400
wrote:

1) I perspire a whole lot
2) When skiing I need to change socks and gloves after a couple
hours because they get so damp, my hands or feet get cold (they
get cold easily anyway, something I inherited)
3) I have mostly used Sporthill base layers, but they don't really
seem to wick very well. Sporthill 3SP fabric (not really a
baselayer) however is great (warm and very breathable).
4) Some kind of shirt I got from LL Bean, seems to be a dual layer,
and is somewhat better.

Question; What brand and/or material is the best kind of base
layer that can handle lots of perspiration? Smartwool, Capalain,
Craft etc???

Thanks!



  #6  
Old March 16th 12, 03:51 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 572
Default best base layer?

It's funny because when my wrist was broken this winter, I bought Black
Diamond Mercury Mitts with PolarTec to fit over the cast and my hand got
cold pretty quickly on days in the mid teens, while the other hand with
the Sinisalo lobster were fine. Had to add a liner. Of course, the
Mitts hand couldn't use a pole. I think some or most lobsters are just
colder than others. What makes the lobster style work is the fingers
sharing warmth, so surface area should be a good thing.

Gene

On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 10:04:51 -0400
gr wrote:

I have been using the Gordini Goretex mitts, not the down ones (lose
insulation when they get wet), but the Goretex doesn't breathe
anything like enough. The lobsters I tried did not have anything like
the insulation that the full mitts do, so that is probably why they
were not all that warm, but maybe the extra surface area of the
lobster had some to do with that.




On 3/15/2012 1:09 AM, wrote:
It sounds like you're out for quite a long time, so it would seem
natural to go through some sweating and cold and hopefully back to
sweating again. I also sweat a fair amount but am usually not out
for more than three hours. In that context, I've tried all the
brands of lobster (two finger) gloves available in the U.S. and the
only one that my hands don't get cold in, short of extreme cold
temps, is the Sinisalo lobster. Somehow they're different. But
now I find that rollerskishop.com hasn't dealt with Sinisalo for
awhile, just having old stock and not the lobster, and Sinisalo's
website doesn't even show ski gloves anymore. Oh well...

Gene


On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 00:47:51 -0400
wrote:

Gloves have been a problem; I also go for the very warm- Smartwool
liner gloves inside rather heavy mittens (except for very warm
times, even the lobster mitts are too cold for me). My hands get
cold too easy, but also perspire way too much, I am looking around
for vented mittens to try this year. Very heavy ragg wool mitts
work pretty well, breathe nicely, but don't block wind and get wet
very easily.

Pant are the only thing that I don't have a problem with. I wear
Sporthill xc pants with no base layer, down to about 15 F.

I tried going light this year with just a thin wicking base layer
and various light jackets, but it really didn't help getting
soaked too much. But I did notice that the LLBean base was better
than the others I had, so I am thinking there are some real
differences in base layers.



Socks work pretty well for wicking, but trapped inside boots they
reach moisture capacity in a few hours (good thing for lunch stops
in a warming hut!). A thin coolmax sock as base and thicker LL bean
Thinsulate works with a mid-day change.

Gary

On 3/13/2012 12:58 PM,
wrote:
Gary, What has been your experience going light on base layers and
outer garments? For example, using only one shirt and
silk-thickness longjohns? For example, unless it's really cold I
use different thickness vests to increase or decrease warmth,
whether under an appropriate jacket or above a shirt - and I use
turtlenecks a lot unless it's warm. If it's colder, I'll stick a
silk or silk-thickness turtleneck on (easy to carry). For
longjohns, either silk or Patagonia's silk-like fabric or their
Capilene 1 longjohns work really well in most conditions for me
(watch for sales). Then it's just the outer pants I vary, from
Hind or Sporthill's original Voyage pant (zone
2) to the looser fitting 3SP pant to Craft's thicker cold pants.

For socks, I really like Bridgedale's X-C model, but maybe you
need to experiment with light (stay away from Smartwool, they're
widely recognized as crap - not sure about their other products).
As for gloves, I'm the opposite of you and prefer warmer than
colder, Sinisalo's lobster being the only one of the type that's
worked for me, and their fingered Arctic, with the back straps cut
off, being for next warmer. But again, what's your experience
going light, such as the Yoko Gore-tex glove or Craft's lighter
model?

Gene


On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 00:31:31 -0400
wrote:

1) I perspire a whole lot
2) When skiing I need to change socks and gloves after a couple
hours because they get so damp, my hands or feet get cold (they
get cold easily anyway, something I inherited)
3) I have mostly used Sporthill base layers, but they don't
really seem to wick very well. Sporthill 3SP fabric (not really a
baselayer) however is great (warm and very breathable).
4) Some kind of shirt I got from LL Bean, seems to be a dual
layer, and is somewhat better.

Question; What brand and/or material is the best kind of base
layer that can handle lots of perspiration? Smartwool, Capalain,
Craft etc???

Thanks!


  #7  
Old March 17th 12, 03:14 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
gr[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 78
Default best base layer?

I use the older style simple pole strap (because I must use lots o'
insulation mitts!) poles, so no problem using full mittens.
Gary

On 3/16/2012 11:51 AM, wrote:
It's funny because when my wrist was broken this winter, I bought Black
Diamond Mercury Mitts with PolarTec to fit over the cast and my hand got
cold pretty quickly on days in the mid teens, while the other hand with
the Sinisalo lobster were fine. Had to add a liner. Of course, the
Mitts hand couldn't use a pole. I think some or most lobsters are just
colder than others. What makes the lobster style work is the fingers
sharing warmth, so surface area should be a good thing.

Gene

On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 10:04:51 -0400
wrote:

I have been using the Gordini Goretex mitts, not the down ones (lose
insulation when they get wet), but the Goretex doesn't breathe
anything like enough. The lobsters I tried did not have anything like
the insulation that the full mitts do, so that is probably why they
were not all that warm, but maybe the extra surface area of the
lobster had some to do with that.




On 3/15/2012 1:09 AM,
wrote:
It sounds like you're out for quite a long time, so it would seem
natural to go through some sweating and cold and hopefully back to
sweating again. I also sweat a fair amount but am usually not out
for more than three hours. In that context, I've tried all the
brands of lobster (two finger) gloves available in the U.S. and the
only one that my hands don't get cold in, short of extreme cold
temps, is the Sinisalo lobster. Somehow they're different. But
now I find that rollerskishop.com hasn't dealt with Sinisalo for
awhile, just having old stock and not the lobster, and Sinisalo's
website doesn't even show ski gloves anymore. Oh well...

Gene


On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 00:47:51 -0400
wrote:

Gloves have been a problem; I also go for the very warm- Smartwool
liner gloves inside rather heavy mittens (except for very warm
times, even the lobster mitts are too cold for me). My hands get
cold too easy, but also perspire way too much, I am looking around
for vented mittens to try this year. Very heavy ragg wool mitts
work pretty well, breathe nicely, but don't block wind and get wet
very easily.

Pant are the only thing that I don't have a problem with. I wear
Sporthill xc pants with no base layer, down to about 15 F.

I tried going light this year with just a thin wicking base layer
and various light jackets, but it really didn't help getting
soaked too much. But I did notice that the LLBean base was better
than the others I had, so I am thinking there are some real
differences in base layers.



Socks work pretty well for wicking, but trapped inside boots they
reach moisture capacity in a few hours (good thing for lunch stops
in a warming hut!). A thin coolmax sock as base and thicker LL bean
Thinsulate works with a mid-day change.

Gary

On 3/13/2012 12:58 PM,
wrote:
Gary, What has been your experience going light on base layers and
outer garments? For example, using only one shirt and
silk-thickness longjohns? For example, unless it's really cold I
use different thickness vests to increase or decrease warmth,
whether under an appropriate jacket or above a shirt - and I use
turtlenecks a lot unless it's warm. If it's colder, I'll stick a
silk or silk-thickness turtleneck on (easy to carry). For
longjohns, either silk or Patagonia's silk-like fabric or their
Capilene 1 longjohns work really well in most conditions for me
(watch for sales). Then it's just the outer pants I vary, from
Hind or Sporthill's original Voyage pant (zone
2) to the looser fitting 3SP pant to Craft's thicker cold pants.

For socks, I really like Bridgedale's X-C model, but maybe you
need to experiment with light (stay away from Smartwool, they're
widely recognized as crap - not sure about their other products).
As for gloves, I'm the opposite of you and prefer warmer than
colder, Sinisalo's lobster being the only one of the type that's
worked for me, and their fingered Arctic, with the back straps cut
off, being for next warmer. But again, what's your experience
going light, such as the Yoko Gore-tex glove or Craft's lighter
model?

Gene


On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 00:31:31 -0400
wrote:

1) I perspire a whole lot
2) When skiing I need to change socks and gloves after a couple
hours because they get so damp, my hands or feet get cold (they
get cold easily anyway, something I inherited)
3) I have mostly used Sporthill base layers, but they don't
really seem to wick very well. Sporthill 3SP fabric (not really a
baselayer) however is great (warm and very breathable).
4) Some kind of shirt I got from LL Bean, seems to be a dual
layer, and is somewhat better.

Question; What brand and/or material is the best kind of base
layer that can handle lots of perspiration? Smartwool, Capalain,
Craft etc???

Thanks!



  #8  
Old April 10th 12, 03:35 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
jeff potter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 191
Default best base layer?

I go out both long and short duration and always dress light and find
that all my warmth is generated just by steady activity. Thin outfits
also wick quick and stay dry. If I stop for more than, like, 2
minutes, I'll pop on a shell vest to cut any breeze.

But I go WOOL AND ALL WOOL AND NOTHING BUT WOOL.

It breathes. It protects from wind.

I suppose I mostly do semi-sheltered skiing, with trees around.

But my 90% outfit is thin wool tee or longsleeve or tneck with a
Woolrich shirt on top -- shirt can range from thin to thick.

If it's 10F in a.m., warming to 20 in p.m., I'll start and stick with
wool longsleeve plus medium-weight Woolrich button-up shirt.

If it's -5F warming to 10F I'll use thin tneck with thicker shirt.

2 thin socks do the trick.

If I'm moving I find even wet feet stay warm. -- We skied our last day
for 7 hours with drenched feet, no prob.

Med-lite XC gloves. When I first start skiing the hands will go thru
about 3 cycles of different kinds of pain if it's 0F lasting 15
minutes total before they settle in on being warm. It's interesting.

....But everyone is different!

(If I tried skiing even a half hour with thicker stuff for a given
temp I would sweat it drenched and be miserable. My skiing and
thinking ability -- and enjoyment -- plummets when I overheat. And I
can't ski AT ALL with nylon coated windblocking fabrics. Not even for
a "warmup." They stifle me promptly.)

--JP outyourbackdoor.com
 




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