Pole Planting.

Greetings,

Some questions about pole planting.

In a zone 5 climate when is the best time to plant poles? How long
till they germinate and how long to harvest?

Hahaha, is it old? Sorry!

Anyway some serious questions.

How many of you pole plant? What do you gain from planting? I have
done it but it seems to slow me down and/or I detect no advantage to
doing it. I recall once going down a slope with the goal of pole
planting every turn, seemed to me to be quite a bit of work. Most of
my skiing seems to use the poles as balance aids and little more than
that.

Upper Midwest Ski Report (Last weekend):
SA Indianhead: ice rink icey but as the day went on and new snow fell
it improved. Very windy and flat lighting less than ideal conditions.

SU Blackjack: Glorious. Sunny and less wind. Not too cold but
sub-freezing and the new snow was great however the surface was
somewhat gravelly but great conditions especially in comparison to the
day before.

Thanks
Mark

Before I offer this advice, please bare in mind I only have the
information you have given in your above post to go off, so I may
pitch this at the wrong level.

Kano Ako
Pole Planting/Lifting uphill ski

(Mark A Framness)
How many of you pole plant?
What do you gain from planting?
I have done it but it seems to slow me down and/or I detect no
advantage to doing it.

***Kano AKo***

Tradionally the pole was used in the form of plough-turn know as
'stem christiana' or 'stem turn'.

As you would traverse the slope with the uphill ski slightly forward
of the the downhill ski so weight distribution is even, as you
approached the turn, the down hill pole would be extended forwards,
coupled with an unwaiting motion by extending the legs from a flexed
position. the uphill ski was then light and able to be moved from
parrallel to the 'angled downhill position' as the uphill ski was
placed into the'v'you would relax by flexing the knees and transfering
pressure to the now outside ski as you turn about the pole you have
planted. Whilst the pole is in place you would then lift the inside
ski (downhill as was) and place it parrallel with the other, using the
pole as balance.

The pole therefore aided balance and provided a point upon which to
initiate the turn.

In the modern model of skiing the pole is no longer as important for
piste skiing, design of ski's and boots is such that when used
correctly the exagerated weighting/unweighting of the ski's is not
required.

That method was also derived at a time when ski's we simple shaped
wood ski's with no metal edge and leather boots.

When on Steep slopes with deep snow (generally off pisté) the pole can
be invaluable when doing jump turns, when an extremely exagerated
weighting/unweighting motion is required to lift the ski's out of the
soft deep snow.

***Mark A Framness***

How many of you pole plant? -
I pole plant only in more difficult snow conditions, its not needed on
pistés

What do you gain from planting?
A sense of timing and a rythmical weighting/unweighting motion,
balance and aid to keeping shoulders facing downhill.

I have done it but it seems to slow me down and/or I detect no
advantage to doing it.

Again on a normal piste you will get little benefit due to the
technolgy in the boots and ski's. You can intiate tight fall line turn
much faster by applying slighlty more pressure to one ski than the
other. conversely you can enjoy a more realxed ride by simply just
applying small difference's in pressure.

by applying pressure I mean you are leaning foward with your shins
firmly pressed against the front of the boot. knees bent, with the
upper body parrallel to the incline of the lower leg.

o
/\
\
_ /_

to actually ski down a groomed piste you do not need poles they just
come in handy for propulsion on the flat and to lean on in the tow
queue.

(Mark A Framness) writes:

Greetings,

Some questions about pole planting.

In a zone 5 climate when is the best time to plant poles? How long
till they germinate and how long to harvest?

Since ski poles can obviously tolerate frost, you can plant 'em
anytime. They won't germinate until the temperature stays above 50,
though.

Hahaha, is it old? Sorry!

Anyway some serious questions.

How many of you pole plant? What do you gain from planting? I have
done it but it seems to slow me down and/or I detect no advantage to
doing it. I recall once going down a slope with the goal of pole
planting every turn, seemed to me to be quite a bit of work. Most of
my skiing seems to use the poles as balance aids and little more than
that.

I do it more than I used to. The pole plant is a kind of bizarre
evolution, it seems to me. Back when there was a lot more uphill in
everybody's downhill, poles were useful much more of the time, vital
for helping you to get yourself from point A to point B. With the
growth of lift-served skiing, that usefulness went way down, to the
point where poles are occasionally useful in and of themselves, but
most of the time, they're not directly helping you.

My guess is that the pole plant evolved as a way of dealing with the
poles the other 98% of the time, making them not directly helpful,
but at least less of a hindrance. Stickiing your pole in the snow
does nothing to help your skiing, but if it's done correctly, the
actions that you take to get there will help in the timing of the
turn, angulation and body position. Case in point: early this
season, when I was getting some remedial pole-plant help, someone
told me to plant 'em farther out ahead, and farther down the hill,
when in the steeps. Sounds a little counterintuitive, but it
encourages you to get enough angulation, to get it early, and to
initiate the turn in a really dynamic -- but still smooth -- manner,
which gives you the kind of proactive (not reactive) skiing that you
want in steeper terrain. More commonly, people use it to time turn
initiation, which I think has much the same effect: they're turning
in a more assertive and committed manner, rather than making
indecisive, back-on-their-heels, "should-I-turn-now-oh-here-come-
the-woods" type turns.

I have an easier time thinking of a pole _touch_, not a pole plant.
I learned to ski in an era when bad pole habits abounded, as in
fact they still do. The biggest problem was that people came to
associate the pole plant with turn initiation so much that it was
almost like they felt the turn couldn't happen without a pole
plant...like if you didn't do the pole plant, a huge hand would reach
out of the clouds and interrupt your turn or something foolish like
that. So the pole plant _had_ to be there, and if you were late
with your pole plant, you were gonna be late with your turn...you
couldn't just say, "Oops, time to turn now, feets do your stuff,"
and be done with it. Furthermore, it seems like a lot of us got the
more-is-better idea: the harder you slammed that pole plant, the
better, which I think led into making the same kind of harsh,
overpowered turn initiation. Well, on the old straight skis, it did
get you turned, but it wasn't pretty.

So I think of the pole plant as a remedial thing that became the
tail wagging the dog. If done right, it can help you with timing, by
making you more aware of the stages of a turn. But if you set out
to learn how to pole plant, it puts the emphasis in the wrong
place.

--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.

(Mark A Framness) writes:

Greetings,

Some questions about pole planting.

In a zone 5 climate when is the best time to plant poles? How long
till they germinate and how long to harvest?

Since ski poles can obviously tolerate frost, you can plant 'em
anytime. They won't germinate until the temperature stays above 50,
though.

Hahaha, is it old? Sorry!

Anyway some serious questions.

How many of you pole plant? What do you gain from planting? I have
done it but it seems to slow me down and/or I detect no advantage to
doing it. I recall once going down a slope with the goal of pole
planting every turn, seemed to me to be quite a bit of work. Most of
my skiing seems to use the poles as balance aids and little more than
that.

I do it more than I used to. The pole plant is a kind of bizarre
evolution, it seems to me. Back when there was a lot more uphill in
everybody's downhill, poles were useful much more of the time, vital
for helping you to get yourself from point A to point B. With the
growth of lift-served skiing, that usefulness went way down, to the
point where poles are occasionally useful in and of themselves, but
most of the time, they're not directly helping you.

My guess is that the pole plant evolved as a way of dealing with the
poles the other 98% of the time, making them not directly helpful,
but at least less of a hindrance. Stickiing your pole in the snow
does nothing to help your skiing, but if it's done correctly, the
actions that you take to get there will help in the timing of the
turn, angulation and body position. Case in point: early this
season, when I was getting some remedial pole-plant help, someone
told me to plant 'em farther out ahead, and farther down the hill,
when in the steeps. Sounds a little counterintuitive, but it
encourages you to get enough angulation, to get it early, and to
initiate the turn in a really dynamic -- but still smooth -- manner,
which gives you the kind of proactive (not reactive) skiing that you
want in steeper terrain. More commonly, people use it to time turn
initiation, which I think has much the same effect: they're turning
in a more assertive and committed manner, rather than making
indecisive, back-on-their-heels, "should-I-turn-now-oh-here-come-
the-woods" type turns.

I have an easier time thinking of a pole _touch_, not a pole plant.
I learned to ski in an era when bad pole habits abounded, as in
fact they still do. The biggest problem was that people came to
associate the pole plant with turn initiation so much that it was
almost like they felt the turn couldn't happen without a pole
plant...like if you didn't do the pole plant, a huge hand would reach
out of the clouds and interrupt your turn or something foolish like
that. So the pole plant _had_ to be there, and if you were late
with your pole plant, you were gonna be late with your turn...you
couldn't just say, "Oops, time to turn now, feets do your stuff,"
and be done with it. Furthermore, it seems like a lot of us got the
more-is-better idea: the harder you slammed that pole plant, the
better, which I think led into making the same kind of harsh,
overpowered turn initiation. Well, on the old straight skis, it did
get you turned, but it wasn't pretty.

So I think of the pole plant as a remedial thing that became the
tail wagging he dog. If done right, it can help you with timing, by
making you more aware of the stages of a turn. But if you set out
to learn how to pole plant, it puts the emphasis in the wrong
place.

--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.

Mark A Framness wrote:

Some questions about pole planting.

Less useful these days of crossover technique, where "natural ski
radius" turns i.e. long radius turns dominates. Crossover provides it's
own natural timing. Poles are often ignored.

Still very useful for short radius linked dynamic turns, for timing.

Extremely useful in slop/sludge/mush/crust conditions to achieve proper
body position for turn initiation.

Vital in steeps for achiving downhill weight transfer, and for blocking.

(And life saving when you've either fallen on steep ice where a pole
self arrest can save your life, or when you've fallen in bottomless
powder,where crossed poles may be your only hope of regaining vertical
and not drowning.)

So you see, unless you are satisfied continuously carving nice smooth
turns on piste or in a race corse for your skiing lifetime, you will
need to learn effective pole usage. Proper pole usage is not an option
for big mountain skiing, it's a requirement.

Quote:
TECHNIQUE, GOOD, BAD OR INDIFFERENT, is not skiing. New technology and
new equipment are certainly not skiing. The wind in your face may be
skiing. The fire in your legs is probably skiing. The crazy feeling in
your heart as you approach terminal velocity around a white planet where
human beings don't belong is definitely skiing. Real skiing. Real skiing
is not that all-fired real, it's the dream you don't want to wake up
from, ever, though you always do. Weightless, wild, irresponsible,
irrational, the white escape hatch from the twentieth century. This is
skiing.
Unquote
from This Is Skiing - Lito Tejada-Flores