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boots dilema



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 13th 04, 02:59 AM
Monique Y. Herman
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On 2004-01-13, F. Plant penned:

"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message
...

I agree with all of the above, except that I do have to say that I
love the "walk" setting on my boots. It's not a deal-breaker for me
or anything, but it sure is nice to be able to straighten out my legs
when clomping around the lodge, hoofing it back to the car, etc.


The walk feature is something you will use less and less as you ski on
them more and more. Eventually you will find yourself walking
spastically across the room unless you have your boots on -and locked
in the ski position of course :-) By the way Monique did you get new
boots or get the old ones reworked?

F. Plant


I have lots of practice walking in ski boots prior to these boots. It's
much easier to walk when your lower legs aren't being pushed forward
into a half-crouch. As I said, it's not a deal breaker, but it's
definitely nice to give my legs a break.

About the boots:

I still have the old boots. I had Surefoot punch out the toe once more.
They are almost totally comfortable except that I have one toe that
inevitably goes "painfully numb"* after 3-4 hours. I'm reluctant to get
new boots; these are "mostly" there, and if I can't isolate the cause of
the toe problem, who's to say the new ones won't have the same issue?

Anyway, I think I've decided to stick with these, at least for this
year. I think that frequent use has helped pack them down. I've heard
a rumor that boot dryers, which I've used in the past but not this year,
can pop the liners back to their original state -- that they rely on
humidity to stay molded. No idea if there's any truth to that. In any
case, if I haven't done it before then, I'll bring them by the Surefoot
at Vail during my honeymoon. After all, they're the ones who sold me
the boots.

Eight days already -- hard to believe for an ex-pat Virginian!


* "painfully numb" means that the toe aches, but the toe itself can't
feel its surroundings; the big and middle toe feel its cold skin, but it
doesn't reciprocate. When I remove the boot, I get a prolonged ache
that makes me want to scream, presumably due to blood flowing back into
the region. So *something* is causing this pressure. I've taken to
leaving the lowest buckle undone (doesn't seem to change my degree of
control) and have the second buckle on its loosest setting. The upper
two buckles are as loose as I can set them while still feeling like I'm
in the driver's seat. This isn't due to cold; it's been pretty warm on
our ski days. It's also not isolated to skiing; I've noticed a similar
numbing effect while mountain biking. So I'm guessing the problem is
actually the constant pressure from the soles. Except that riding lifts
with no foot-bars seems to hasten the process, so that would implicate
pressure from the top. *sigh*

--
monique

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  #12  
Old January 13th 04, 04:06 AM
Richard Walsh
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"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in
:

(Snip for brevity)

Eight days already -- hard to believe for an ex-pat Virginian!


Shoot, I live ten miles from the lift and I've only got 7
days in. It's that old "working for a living" thing.


* "painfully numb" means that the toe aches, but the toe itself can't
feel its surroundings; the big and middle toe feel its cold skin, but it
doesn't reciprocate. When I remove the boot, I get a prolonged ache
that makes me want to scream, presumably due to blood flowing back into
the region. So *something* is causing this pressure. I've taken to
leaving the lowest buckle undone (doesn't seem to change my degree of
control) and have the second buckle on its loosest setting. The upper
two buckles are as loose as I can set them while still feeling like I'm
in the driver's seat. This isn't due to cold; it's been pretty warm on
our ski days. It's also not isolated to skiing; I've noticed a similar
numbing effect while mountain biking. So I'm guessing the problem is
actually the constant pressure from the soles. Except that riding lifts
with no foot-bars seems to hasten the process, so that would implicate
pressure from the top. *sigh*


So, it's your second toe (on one foot only?) that goes painfully numb?
You may be creeping up on a solution. What you probably need to do is
find out the nerve pathways that lead from the offending toe. Then
expirament with isolating spots along this pathway, maybe with a thin
donut, or shaped pads made from moleskin or some such. Maybe a trip to
a podiatrist might pinpoint the area to be held away from contact with
the boot in some way. Feet are funny things, the pressure point which
numbs your toe may be up by your ankle, though I doubt it from other
things you said. I'd guess that the point is somewhere near the middle
of your arch, either top or bottom of your foot.

RW

  #13  
Old January 13th 04, 05:04 AM
Monique Y. Herman
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On 2004-01-13, Richard Walsh penned:
"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in
:

(Snip for brevity)

Eight days already -- hard to believe for an ex-pat Virginian!


Shoot, I live ten miles from the lift and I've only got 7 days in.
It's that old "working for a living" thing.


Hey now, I work too!

To be honest, though, most of our ski days started around 11. It's
*hard* jumping out of bed on a weekend! Especially when you played
hockey the night before and didn't get home till one ...

This season should be great, though, between the Vail honeymoon and the
visit to Park City sometime around early March. (I want to ski
Solitude; he wants to see PCMR itself; any suggestions for a possible
third? anyone?)

So, it's your second toe (on one foot only?) that goes painfully numb?


Yes. Which, I might add, is a vast improvement (probably attributable
to sane buckle settings and the packing-down of my boot liner).

You may be creeping up on a solution. What you probably need to do is
find out the nerve pathways that lead from the offending toe. Then
expirament with isolating spots along this pathway, maybe with a thin
donut, or shaped pads made from moleskin or some such. Maybe a trip to
a podiatrist might pinpoint the area to be held away from contact with
the boot in some way. Feet are funny things, the pressure point which
numbs your toe may be up by your ankle, though I doubt it from other
things you said. I'd guess that the point is somewhere near the middle
of your arch, either top or bottom of your foot.


All of what you say makes sense. I was kind of thinking it might be the
ball of the foot right below the toe, but I'm not sure how I developed
that theory. I guess just because it's the closest thing to my toe.
Anyway, I have a coworker who has toe trouble and seems to be happy with
her podiatrist; perhaps I'll ask her for their number.

Thanks for your suggestions! It seems like all of the people with whom
I've skied or gone ski-gear-shopping have perfectly-molded last-shaped
feet. It gets to the point where I feel like a trouble-maker for
complaining all the time -- but dammit, it hurts! And anything that
cuts down on my ski time is a major issue.

--
monique

  #14  
Old January 13th 04, 05:49 AM
bdubya
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On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:04:53 CST, "Monique Y. Herman"
wrote:

On 2004-01-13, Richard Walsh penned:
"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in
:

(Snip for brevity)

Eight days already -- hard to believe for an ex-pat Virginian!


Shoot, I live ten miles from the lift and I've only got 7 days in.
It's that old "working for a living" thing.


Hey now, I work too!

To be honest, though, most of our ski days started around 11. It's
*hard* jumping out of bed on a weekend! Especially when you played
hockey the night before and didn't get home till one ...

This season should be great, though, between the Vail honeymoon and the
visit to Park City sometime around early March. (I want to ski
Solitude; he wants to see PCMR itself; any suggestions for a possible
third? anyone?)


If you're staying in PC? Dear Valet, without question. The skiing's
darn good, the lift prices really aren't that high (rel. to PC, or
Vail f'rinstance), and although the food is even more expensive than
most on-mountain cuisine, it's actually worth the price, unlike most
on-mountain chow. I mean, I live in Chicago, and would happily pay the
same prices for the same food here (and I eat well when I go out).
And the bumps have the sort of skiable rhythm to them that you just
don't see anymore except at a few rare places. IMHO. And the groomers
will make anyone feel like a hero. I'd say blow off PCMR entirely,
and go to DV.

bw

  #15  
Old January 13th 04, 06:12 AM
Monique Y. Herman
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Default

On 2004-01-13, bdubya penned:

If you're staying in PC? Dear Valet, without question. The skiing's
darn good, the lift prices really aren't that high (rel. to PC, or
Vail f'rinstance), and although the food is even more expensive than
most on-mountain cuisine, it's actually worth the price, unlike most
on-mountain chow. I mean, I live in Chicago, and would happily pay the
same prices for the same food here (and I eat well when I go out).
And the bumps have the sort of skiable rhythm to them that you just
don't see anymore except at a few rare places. IMHO. And the groomers
will make anyone feel like a hero. I'd say blow off PCMR entirely,
and go to DV.


Yup, I'm lucky enough to have relatives living right in PC.

I would blow off PCMR, but my fiance's never been there and wants to
check it out. Since I insisted on Solitude, it's only fair that he gets
to pick one, too.

Skiing quality ranks way higher than food quality in my book. He's an
antifan of groomers, but tell me ... the website boasts 800 acres of
glade skiing ... is any of that in the blue-black range?


--
monique

  #16  
Old January 13th 04, 04:05 PM
pigo
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"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message
...
On 2004-01-13, bdubya penned:

If you're staying in PC? Dear Valet, without question. The skiing's
darn good, the lift prices really aren't that high (rel. to PC, or
Vail f'rinstance), and although the food is even more expensive than
most on-mountain cuisine, it's actually worth the price, unlike most
on-mountain chow. I mean, I live in Chicago, and would happily pay the
same prices for the same food here (and I eat well when I go out).
And the bumps have the sort of skiable rhythm to them that you just
don't see anymore except at a few rare places. IMHO. And the groomers
will make anyone feel like a hero. I'd say blow off PCMR entirely,
and go to DV.


Yup, I'm lucky enough to have relatives living right in PC.

I would blow off PCMR, but my fiance's never been there and wants to
check it out. Since I insisted on Solitude, it's only fair that he gets
to pick one, too.

Skiing quality ranks way higher than food quality in my book. He's an
antifan of groomers, but tell me ... the website boasts 800 acres of
glade skiing ... is any of that in the blue-black range?


It depends on the conditions.

If you ask for and "Experts Only" map when you get your ticket, it shows you
where they are (at DV). Though it does have a high % of groomers, it has
lots of non groom too. And the clientelle isn't as likely to ski it as much.
At pc everything is groomed by the two legged groomers (trees included).

How long are you going to be here?

pigo



  #17  
Old January 13th 04, 05:22 PM
Monique Y. Herman
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On 2004-01-13, pigo penned:

"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message
...

Yup, I'm lucky enough to have relatives living right in PC.

I would blow off PCMR, but my fiance's never been there and wants to
check it out. Since I insisted on Solitude, it's only fair that he
gets to pick one, too.

Skiing quality ranks way higher than food quality in my book. He's
an antifan of groomers, but tell me ... the website boasts 800 acres
of glade skiing ... is any of that in the blue-black range?


It depends on the conditions.

If you ask for and "Experts Only" map when you get your ticket, it
shows you where they are (at DV). Though it does have a high % of
groomers, it has lots of non groom too. And the clientelle isn't as
likely to ski it as much. At pc everything is groomed by the two
legged groomers (trees included).

How long are you going to be here?

pigo


Good question. Not 100% decided as we'll be driving, but probably 3 ski
days, maybe 4.

--
monique

  #18  
Old January 13th 04, 09:22 PM
bdubya
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On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:12:58 CST, "Monique Y. Herman"
wrote:

On 2004-01-13, bdubya penned:

If you're staying in PC? Dear Valet, without question. The skiing's
darn good, the lift prices really aren't that high (rel. to PC, or
Vail f'rinstance), and although the food is even more expensive than
most on-mountain cuisine, it's actually worth the price, unlike most
on-mountain chow. I mean, I live in Chicago, and would happily pay the
same prices for the same food here (and I eat well when I go out).
And the bumps have the sort of skiable rhythm to them that you just
don't see anymore except at a few rare places. IMHO. And the groomers
will make anyone feel like a hero. I'd say blow off PCMR entirely,
and go to DV.


Yup, I'm lucky enough to have relatives living right in PC.

I would blow off PCMR, but my fiance's never been there and wants to
check it out. Since I insisted on Solitude, it's only fair that he gets
to pick one, too.

Skiing quality ranks way higher than food quality in my book. He's an
antifan of groomers, but tell me ... the website boasts 800 acres of
glade skiing ... is any of that in the blue-black range?


The Empire chair serves a nice chunk of off-piste blue/black terrain,
some open, some gladed, all good clean fun. IMHO.

bw

  #19  
Old January 14th 04, 12:56 AM
Richard Walsh
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"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in
:

(Schnipp)

Thanks for your suggestions! It seems like all of the people with whom
I've skied or gone ski-gear-shopping have perfectly-molded last-shaped
feet. It gets to the point where I feel like a trouble-maker for
complaining all the time -- but dammit, it hurts! And anything that
cuts down on my ski time is a major issue.


No last-moulded foot here. If it's any consolation, you will
probably become the best bootfitter for yourself that there is.

This was a new boot year for me. I was very happy with my last
boots. Salomon Force 9 (same as X-Scream but with riveted cuff
for extra stiffness), but it took me a couple of years to get
them right, or right enough that I could put them on in the
morning, buckle them moderately and never touch them again until
I took them off at night.

The new boots are this year's X-Wave, same plastic stiffness as
the old X-Scream but without the riveted cuff for a little more
flex. Bought 1/2 size smaller (actually narrower) since that
what the 1/2 size indicates in mondo sizing. My feet have
bunions on both the inside (normal) and outside (rare), I broke
my right one (skiing) 35 years ago and the bones were never
set exactly as nature intended, so I have permanent calcium
deposits there. Never got heel spurs though. Anyway, I went into
the shop, we spent a couple of hours fitting with me requesting
the way I wanted the fitting to be done and where I wanted the
shell pushed.

Took them home. A month and a half later was my first day on
the hill. I buckled them moderately, skied all day without
changing anything and took them off at night. It's been this
way right along now.

This isn't by way of bragging, it's for encouragement. You will
get your boots right and the next time you buy boots it will
be easier. Work hard on getting them at least close so you won't
mess up your honeymoon trip with sore feet after the first day.

BTW, my recommendation for buckling, assuming the boots fit
snuggly.

Bottom two buckles just tight enough to not jar open. Third
buckle up tight enough that I can close it but not so tight
as I need help closing it. Same for the top buckle, but can
be looser if the terrain is easy. Fairly snug for the strap.

ALWAYS wear the same brand/size/weight of socks once you have
found the right ones.

RW

  #20  
Old January 14th 04, 03:55 AM
F. Plant
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Default


"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message
...
snip

I still have the old boots. I had Surefoot punch out the toe once more.
They are almost totally comfortable except that I have one toe that
inevitably goes "painfully numb"* after 3-4 hours. I'm reluctant to get
new boots; these are "mostly" there, and if I can't isolate the cause of
the toe problem, who's to say the new ones won't have the same issue?

Anyway, I think I've decided to stick with these, at least for this
year. I think that frequent use has helped pack them down. I've heard
a rumor that boot dryers, which I've used in the past but not this year,
can pop the liners back to their original state -- that they rely on
humidity to stay molded. No idea if there's any truth to that. In any
case, if I haven't done it before then, I'll bring them by the Surefoot
at Vail during my honeymoon. After all, they're the ones who sold me
the boots.

Eight days already -- hard to believe for an ex-pat Virginian!


* "painfully numb" means that the toe aches, but the toe itself can't
feel its surroundings; the big and middle toe feel its cold skin, but it
doesn't reciprocate. When I remove the boot, I get a prolonged ache
that makes me want to scream, presumably due to blood flowing back into
the region. So *something* is causing this pressure. I've taken to
leaving the lowest buckle undone (doesn't seem to change my degree of
control) and have the second buckle on its loosest setting. The upper
two buckles are as loose as I can set them while still feeling like I'm
in the driver's seat. This isn't due to cold; it's been pretty warm on
our ski days. It's also not isolated to skiing; I've noticed a similar
numbing effect while mountain biking. So I'm guessing the problem is
actually the constant pressure from the soles. Except that riding lifts
with no foot-bars seems to hasten the process, so that would implicate
pressure from the top. *sigh*


Congrats on the 8 days and the intended honeymoon. Ive got 2 days and a
todler, used to get about a dozen.

Your boot is still probably only partially broken in, and your foot will
also be getting manipulated into a slightly different shape so it takes a
bit of time for it to get used to being constrained.

RE the MTB, a friend had a similar issue which she cured by putting some old
ski orthodics in her cycling shoes. They were the rigid plastic type w no
arch posting.

Boot dryers that are too warm can soften the liner materials and let them
somewhat bounce back to their original uncompacted form. Moisture only
gives you musties AFAIK.

I can relate to your toe issue as I get foot cramps on a reg basis -I can do
great involuntary Vulcan greetings with my toes :-) Don't rule out cold
'cause if the circulation to that toe is bad it could be freezing before its
friends do. Dosn't mean that its not the boots fault, just that it could be
a blood vessel issue and not a pinched nerve issue. If its white and its
neighbours are pink (assuming your are of pasty european descent -which is a
great bootfitting aid) you have minimally some sort of circulation issues.

I have cramping issues that are boot volume related. For me I find chair
lifts sometimes hell as that is when I get cramps. For myself at least, its
the lack of weighting on my foot, which causes the problem. My theory is
when weighted its in a stable spread position, easily overcoming boot
forces. When unweighted the now relatively large boot forces distort it
resulting in potential for cramps. I find this is worsened by cold, lactic
acid, and dehydration.

I do have a low volume fit, and I am very close to the sides and top of the
shell. All that said I've been looking for replacements for about 2-3
seasons and nothing comes close to their fit even though they must be close
to 300 days.

BTW if you go to a podiatrist, try to get someone who specializes in skiing.

F. Plant


 




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