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Donek Web Site, 2nd Board recommendation
Hey, it looks like Sean got the site updated with the new products.
Excellent! http://www.donek.com/ I'm in the market for a 2nd board. I have a 160 Incline now. I like it very much, but it doesn't do everything well for me. In particular, I find it to be not very maneuverable in the trees, and it sinks like a lead weight in powder. I'm 5'8", 155-160lbs, 9.5 boots. Flow bindings at this point. I mostly freeride, and there's not that much powder at my local hill, but plenty of trees. I'm just getting into the park some, but mainly just straight jumps. I don't ever see myself in the pipe, but who knows. I'm considering the Phoenix, but wonder if it is "all mountain" enough. Looks very soft, and I've never ridden a noodle board before. Would I be disappointed on the groomers and bumps? I'm also considering the 156 Wide, thinking it might be a little more maneuverable and should certainly float better when I need that. Do any of you (besides Sean!) actually have a Phoenix? Can you (including Sean!) compare it to a Wide? Thanks in advance! -- Robert |
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#2
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Hey Robert, I'm in the same boat as you... I'm 5'8" 152 lbs, size 8
boots with Catek Freeride bindings. I also found that my 155 Incline doesn't do trees well for me - making me think that you won't be happy with a 156 Wide. I actually picked up a Burton Fish 156MD on Ebay for around $120 - there are still several on auctions/sale which I have no doubt you could get one in the $140 range. That is an awesome board for trees and powder (the short sidecut radius and taper make it extremely quick turning)... it is very good in sloppy/chunky/slushy snow as well and can carve a good line at medium speed... although it is not a going to bomb steeps for you (but the Incline will so it is a perfect combo). That being said... knowing the style of the original Donek boards, I can't believe that the Phoenix is not going to be very carveable and all-mountain as those are the type of boards Sean has been building for years; you don't change the "character" of your board overnight. The Incline 160 is a very stiff 4.2, sufficient for a 190 lbs rider, the 155 is 3.4. The Phoenix 160/160W is 1.7/2.0 so it's about half as stiff, probably leaving it in the medium-medium stiffness range and I think should be adequate (especially compared to the Twin 160 1.0 index. Then again... why ask when you can try it out? As far as I know Sean is still into giving *free* demos of his boards. If you are interested in seeing how they ride.. call him up and have him mailing you a board or two to compare. If you like it... take it... if not, I strongly recommend the Burton Fish 156HD for you. It is a very, very, very fun board... limited in the exact opposite way of the Incline. --Arvin P.S. If you do demo the Phoenix... let me know! I am planning on getting on in 2-3 seasons I've sufficiently used my old park/pipe board. I was thinking about going with the Prior AMF in a few years... but now that Donek has come out with a similar board... I might stick with them (especially if I get to try it out, unlike Prior). |
#3
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lonerider wrote:
I was thinking about going with the Prior AMF in a few years... but now that Donek has come out with a similar board... I might stick with them (especially if I get to try it out, unlike Prior). You can try a Prior out - just plan a vacation to Whistler, and demo to your heart's satisfaction. Maybe not so convenient as the Donek demo-by-mail, but any excuse for a trip... Neil |
#4
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I was thinking about going with the Prior AMF in a few years...
but now that Donek has come out with a similar board... I might stick with them (especially if I get to try it out, unlike Prior). You can try a Prior out - just plan a vacation to Whistler, and demo to your heart's satisfaction. Maybe not so convenient as the Donek demo-by-mail, but any excuse for a trip... Ping, Kevin Morrison... you still planning to demo Phoenixes and Twins at Mt Hood over Thanksgiving? I'm curious to see what the Phoenix feels like, especially if you've got the 165. |
#5
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The last couple times I rode my wide 160, I detuned (dulled) maybe the
last 5cm of the sidecut at the tail. Made a very noticible difference, suddenly the tail got 'swishy'. I'm not completely sold on it, and may go back to a sharp tune all the way... but it may be worth trying if you want to get some maneuverability out of your incline. I'm roughly your weight, and the wide 160 floats me like a block of styrofoam in a bathtum. The wide 156 should have plenty of float. |
#6
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Robert Stevahn wrote:
I'm in the market for a 2nd board. I have a 160 Incline now. I like it very much, but it doesn't do everything well for me. In particular, I find it to be not very maneuverable in the trees, and it sinks like a lead weight in powder. I'm 5'8", 155-160lbs, 9.5 boots. Flow bindings at this point. I'm surprised the 160 won't float you in powder. I've ridden my 165 wide in every different powder condition and flotation has *never* been an issue. OK my board's bigger but then I'm 6'5" and 185 lbs! Could it be a speed/technique thing - you say you don't get much powder at your hill: I mostly freeride, and there's not that much powder at my local hill, but plenty of trees. So with the manoeverability problem in trees, are you riding ice/crud in there or is it powder? If it's the former then shorter with more flex should help. If it's the latter, then I agree with the Fish suggestion - but I do wonder if it's just a question of speed/confidence on your current board. Iain |
#7
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I'm surprised the 160 won't float you in powder. I've ridden my 165 wide
in every different powder condition and flotation has *never* been an issue. OK my board's bigger but then I'm 6'5" and 185 lbs! Could it be a speed/technique thing - you say you don't get much powder at your hill: The Incline 160 did not float me in powder either, but the Wide 161 floats me very well. The two boards have the same sidecut and stiffness... only different in width, nose length, tail length. That extra width seems to make all the difference for flotation! I mostly freeride, and there's not that much powder at my local hill, but plenty of trees. So with the manoeverability problem in trees, are you riding ice/crud in there or is it powder? If it's the former then shorter with more flex should help. If it's the latter, then I agree with the Fish suggestion - but I do wonder if it's just a question of speed/confidence on your current board. Either way, I think you'll find a wide 156 will be too similar to your Incline 160. It will still be relatively stiff, making it not maneuverable enough for you in the trees. If you want to stay with Donek - perhaps you might look at a Phoenix? (And tell us all about it if you do, many of us are curious!) BTW, I find my Wide 161 "just right" in trees, but I am heavier (195 pounds), and have about 400 riding days under my belt, and I tend to like stiff boards... so I am not surprised at all that you find it a lot to handle in trees at your weight, and doubly so if you're not as experienced. Mike T |
#8
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Mike T wrote:
The Incline 160 did not float me in powder either, but the Wide 161 floats me very well. The two boards have the same sidecut and stiffness... only different in width, nose length, tail length. That extra width seems to make all the difference for flotation! (Warning: procede with caution - unproven theory below!) I'll try to understand that. For a *first* approximation I think that lift (and therefore the rider weight that can be floated) will be proportional to board area. So relative to the 160 incline we have Board Flotation index 160 incline 1 156 wide 1.05 161 wide 1.08 165 wide 1.11 So Mike's right, the effect of increased width on flotation is significant - nearly 8% more for a 161W compared to a 160 Next lets try a relative flotation factor for each rider on his board benchmarked from Roberts weight (flotation index divided by rider weight index) : Rider Weight index Board Flotability Robert 1 160 1 Iain 1.18 165W .94 Mike 1.24 161W .87 Conclusions: * Mike has least flotation relative to his weight but is probably travelling fast! * I think 160 should float Robert * Robert moving to a 156W gains 5% more flotation and reduces stiffness by 4.2 to 3.4 (but still a lot stiffer than the Pheonix). But other than in powder, the extra width will be a disadvantage with US 9.5 boots Iain |
#9
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Conclusions:
* Mike has least flotation relative to his weight but is probably travelling fast! I admit it does become a little more tricky to float at lower speeds, but not *that* tricky! My wife bought me an OSin 4807 178 for my birthday last year (steeply discounted) which is a fish-tail board with a long powder nose... can't wait to find out how *that* floats in the powder. (It's almost as wide as my 161W, too) * I think 160 should float Robert I'm sure there are other factors to consider, but yeah, given Robert's weight versus mine, I suspect the Incline 160 does provide adequate flotation for him... .... but the stiffness could be an issue too. I've some frustrating experiences with really stiff boards in powder, for example my old Salomon FRS 165, which makes the Incline/Wide/Sasquatch feel like a noodle. I love super-stiff boards for carving on hardpack, but in powder, without the resistance of the hardpack, they are mighty difficult to bend at sub-light speeds. Robert, I don't know what your experience level is, but at your weight the Incline 160 is probably quite stiff. (Jason Watkins - any comments? You're lighter and ride a 161W...). If the board is stiffer than you'd like in powder, mistakes get magnified since you can't bend the board as easily to correct. On the other hand, in your mistake-free comfort zone, you can just weight your back foot and enjoy the ride... * Robert moving to a 156W gains 5% more flotation and reduces stiffness by 4.2 to 3.4 (but still a lot stiffer than the Pheonix). But other than in powder, the extra width will be a disadvantage with US 9.5 boots My wife has the Incline 150, so I have a pretty good idea how stiff the 156 would be, and the answer is, still pretty stiff. (lonerider has the Incline 155 - same stiffness as 156W - comments?). IMHO, if you are looking for a dedicated powder / trees board, you want something noticeably softer than what you use to carve groomers on. (That OSin 178, despite being quite long, is by far the softest board I own. It's a hair flexier than my wife's Incline 150). I haven't ridden the Fish yet - but I agree with lonerider, it's worth a serious look. (BTW I bought my wife a Fish 150 via eBay so she can keep up with me when I ride my OSin :; ) Mike T P.S. IMHO, with a 9.5 boot, the Wide is as good a choice as the Incline on average, better for some, worse for others. The last time Iain and I engaged in a calculation-intensive thread, it was on this very topic |
#10
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Robert,
My first suggestion for you is to verify that you've got your bindings mounted in the appropriate location on the board you have. You should have received a mounting instruction sheet with the board indicating the appropriate mounting and placement of the bindings. If you didn't get it, or no longer have it, I would be happy to e-mail you another one. Your position on the board has a huge affect on the performance of the board in various types of terrain. Moving toward the tail will definitely improve the boards performance in the trees and powder. Too far back and you will start to loose some carving performance. Moving forward will destroy the boards performance in powder and the trees and teach you to carve the board in the back seat. 9 times out of 10, binding position on the board is the solution to peoples problems. Now for the phoenix. I purposefully did none of the initial testing of the phoenix in an effort to make it something different. I listened carefully to the people who were testing it and made the changes they requested or made changes in the engineering that generated the results they were looking for. I was of course striving to make a board that railed an exceptional turn at the same time. Most of the testing was done in the trees, attempting to make a board that had a tremendous amount of manueverability in tight situations. The testers were very satisfied with the results. It was also tested in the park and pipe. Those testers were also very impressed. When they were all happy with the ride I finally took the board out and rode it. I feel that we did an excellent job of meeting the needs of the powder, tree and freestyle performance while maintaining exceptional carve performance. As for comparing it with the wide, I think they are quite different boards. I think you should check your stance location and then try to demo a phoenix. -- Sean Martin Donek Snowboards Inc. http://www.donek.com/ phone:877-53-DONEK "Robert Stevahn" wrote in message ... Hey, it looks like Sean got the site updated with the new products. Excellent! http://www.donek.com/ I'm in the market for a 2nd board. I have a 160 Incline now. I like it very much, but it doesn't do everything well for me. In particular, I find it to be not very maneuverable in the trees, and it sinks like a lead weight in powder. I'm 5'8", 155-160lbs, 9.5 boots. Flow bindings at this point. I mostly freeride, and there's not that much powder at my local hill, but plenty of trees. I'm just getting into the park some, but mainly just straight jumps. I don't ever see myself in the pipe, but who knows. I'm considering the Phoenix, but wonder if it is "all mountain" enough. Looks very soft, and I've never ridden a noodle board before. Would I be disappointed on the groomers and bumps? I'm also considering the 156 Wide, thinking it might be a little more maneuverable and should certainly float better when I need that. Do any of you (besides Sean!) actually have a Phoenix? Can you (including Sean!) compare it to a Wide? Thanks in advance! -- Robert |
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