more "universal" powder board

Yeah, you gotta watch out for that MikeT guy... he's got a real
problem with being a board whore.

Seriously tho... at this point I see myself having an all round
softboot board, and all round hardboot board, and possibly a powder
board (depending on what I get for the all round hardboot board). I
can see some of the advantages of having a couple boards and picking
the best one for the conditions of the day... but really I just wanna
be able to grab as little gear as possible at 6am, and ride all day
without thinking about gear .

Yeah, you gotta watch out for that MikeT guy... he's got a real
problem with being a board whore.

.... says the guy who's currently borrowing one of my three functioning
boards!

:P

-Mike T

"Mike T" wrote in message ...
Yeah, you gotta watch out for that MikeT guy... he's got a real
problem with being a board whore.

... says the guy who's currently borrowing one of my three functioning
boards!

:P

-Mike T

That *WOULD* be optimal and a loophole in my reasoning. While it's
extragant to own so many snowboards, I wouldn't feel guilty at all
taking advantage of someone else's extensive equipment resources. I've
been trying to borrow Randy's stuff all season... but he went and
dropped all his stuff in his house up in North Lake... far away from
me and my "home mountain" of Kirkwood. And even though I might spend a
few days up there next season... I will already have all the boards I
could want supposedly with my Donek Incline and Madd 170 (ok, maybe I
could borrow his OSin 4807..., if I don't get one for myself)

BigFoot wrote in message news:c6ub0s$ku0
Thank you guys for your advise. I hate wide boards, I tried Never Summer Legacy
once and that was by far the worst board I've ever ridden.
So it brings me back to Khyber. I agree with og, looong board would probably
an overkill. But Im heavier than you, so I need more floatation.
Khyber 165 might be real fun. And my board of choice will still be my
Shogun 166,
the best stick I've ever had under my feet.

Hey Andrew (BigFoot), Prior just put it's demo fleet on sale for some
decent discounts... if you don't mind buying slightly used. They have
some Freeride, All-Mountain Freestyles, and some 165 Khybers for
decent discounts. Damn... I wish I needed these type of boards, but I
don't oh well. I'm pretty happy with my Doneks. One of these days I
would be interested in someone telling me how the Donek Incline
compares to the Prior Freerides.

http://www.priorsnowboards.com/frame...ards_used.html

Good luck
--Arvin

... says the guy who's currently borrowing one of my three functioning
boards!

:P

-Mike T

doh!

a 160 cm board. I see very few riders of any merit riding boards over 168
at any weight and super long boards languish in the shops because no-one
wants them.

Try Mike Wiegele's, which is where my data come from. You can of
course use anything you like in a place like that. It might be worth
wondering why people use long boards, and fail on shorter boards, in
such conditions.

Alternatively, turn up with a short board and change it on the first
fuel run ;-)

In a resort mostly what people call "powder" is riding the hardpack
under a few cm of fluff. Perhaps it's a terminology issue. You can
ride that stuff on a slalom board...


My experience has been that most longboard fans are hard booters... myself
included.
Perhaps, but at Wiegele's they're all on softies and they all ride big
boards. The snow's just deep. Seriously, on a really big powder day
you're not going to be riding anything too steep and you simply won't
be able to ride on a short board.


In my experience board length makes little difference to turn ability
in the trees, which is just a technique issue.

I respectfully disagree.

Phil - could you explain in more detail?

Yup. There's nothing in the way I turn my board which requires me to
torque the board around. I don't turn by kicking out the back foot, or
rotating my body. The turn action doesn't depend much on the length of
the board. If you can turn it right, how long it is doesn't matter.
Disclaimer: there are obviously many other reasons why length is
important, including flex, tail manouverability etc. These are not
what I'm talking about.

What I'm trying to say is that going short doesn't help you turn your
board properly. Indeed, in powder within reason more "float" makes it
easier.

FWIW the main deal with the Fish is that pin-tail, which opens up a
few different turn styles which are tighter than you can achieve with
a standard powder board with a big soft tail.


I routinely ride my Axis 172 in trees, but find myself slowing or stopping
myself all too often. I see others doing riding long boards in trees...
mostly experienced alpine riders... but it's not exactly easy to watch
someone else ride trees without hurting yourself

Not familiar with that board. Mostly you need float plus a soft tail,
or a pin tail, but you know that.. Of course bigger boards tend to go
faster (hence go even bigger in very deep snow/ less steep slopes).
You do need to have the techique to handle the pace..

I'll even agree that for many of us ( 220 pounds?) long boards are not
necessary.

But they sure as hell can be a lot of fun! Especially if you're not into
riding switch, and you are into either railing turns, floating high through
powder, or late spring riding in slush, mashed potatoes, and velvet. Longer
boards can really help you not to pearl in those conditions.

I think the board length thing generally is mostly fashion as someone
said. There can't be any reason for so many intermediate snowboarders
using such inappropriate gear. Don't get me started on the evils of
marketing. Hopefully it'll stop before they all go back to skiing.

On powder boards, I weigh about 120 of your pounds and ride a 168 on a
standard powder day. Less experienced heli-boarders tend to use longer
boards. This is mixed terrain: some open; mostly trees; log cuts.
Bottomless.

Phil

From what I've seen of most heli boarding the runs are so flat you need a
longer board.

"phil" wrote in message
om...
a 160 cm board. I see very few riders of any merit riding boards over
168
at any weight and super long boards languish in the shops because
no-one
wants them.

Try Mike Wiegele's, which is where my data come from. You can of
course use anything you like in a place like that. It might be worth
wondering why people use long boards, and fail on shorter boards, in
such conditions.

Alternatively, turn up with a short board and change it on the first
fuel run ;-)

In a resort mostly what people call "powder" is riding the hardpack
under a few cm of fluff. Perhaps it's a terminology issue. You can
ride that stuff on a slalom board...


My experience has been that most longboard fans are hard booters...
myself
included.
Perhaps, but at Wiegele's they're all on softies and they all ride big
boards. The snow's just deep. Seriously, on a really big powder day
you're not going to be riding anything too steep and you simply won't
be able to ride on a short board.


In my experience board length makes little difference to turn
ability
in the trees, which is just a technique issue.

I respectfully disagree.

Phil - could you explain in more detail?

Yup. There's nothing in the way I turn my board which requires me to
torque the board around. I don't turn by kicking out the back foot, or
rotating my body. The turn action doesn't depend much on the length of
the board. If you can turn it right, how long it is doesn't matter.
Disclaimer: there are obviously many other reasons why length is
important, including flex, tail manouverability etc. These are not
what I'm talking about.

What I'm trying to say is that going short doesn't help you turn your
board properly. Indeed, in powder within reason more "float" makes it
easier.

FWIW the main deal with the Fish is that pin-tail, which opens up a
few different turn styles which are tighter than you can achieve with
a standard powder board with a big soft tail.


I routinely ride my Axis 172 in trees, but find myself slowing or
stopping
myself all too often. I see others doing riding long boards in trees...
mostly experienced alpine riders... but it's not exactly easy to watch
someone else ride trees without hurting yourself

Not familiar with that board. Mostly you need float plus a soft tail,
or a pin tail, but you know that.. Of course bigger boards tend to go
faster (hence go even bigger in very deep snow/ less steep slopes).
You do need to have the techique to handle the pace..

Yup. There's nothing in the way I turn my board which requires me to
torque the board around. I don't turn by kicking out the back foot, or
rotating my body. The turn action doesn't depend much on the length of
the board. If you can turn it right, how long it is doesn't matter.

Right - so you're just engaging the sidecut - which means you simply need a
tight enough sidecut for the situation, right?

(For me, a 9m sidecut is plenty tight for trees... see below...)

I routinely ride my Axis 172 in trees, but find myself slowing or
stopping
myself all too often. I see others doing riding long boards in trees...
mostly experienced alpine riders... but it's not exactly easy to watch
someone else ride trees without hurting yourself

Not familiar with that board. Mostly you need float plus a soft tail,
or a pin tail, but you know that.. Of course bigger boards tend to go
faster (hence go even bigger in very deep snow/ less steep slopes).
You do need to have the techique to handle the pace..

This is the Donek Axis - http://www.donek.com/01_products/axis.htm to see
specs. It is not the ideal tree board by any means, it's more of an
all-around board designed to be ridden with plates... there's nothing soft
about it. You need a little speed in order to turn it tight w/o torquing
it around... which makes it more, um, risky in trees. I can meaneuever
more easily through trees on a Donek Wide 161 with softies, softer and
somewhat tighter (9 m) sidecut... it's just that I don't necessarily want to
be on the softie rig as often as I want to duck into the trees!

Sidecut: yes, I think so, although there's probably a fair bit of
banking going on. I was trying to figure this out whilst standing in
my kitchen the other day and I have to admit I'm not 100% sure what it
is which makes the thing turn. I know what it's not though ;-)


This is the Donek Axis - http://www.donek.com/01_products/axis.htm to see
specs. It is not the ideal tree board by any means, it's more of an
all-around board designed to be ridden with plates... there's nothing soft
about it.

Looks interesting. I once made a mistake of suggesting that one of
Sean's boards might be a tad noodlish and he was very abrupt with me.
I don't think they make anything which isn't full-on. My boarding
patterns mean I'm either full-on powder or resort boarding, so I tend
to carry around only a couple of boards these days.

I occasionally end up riding a stiffish powder board. Some of the
Salomons are pretty stiff in the tail, for example. I'm not sure how
the Donek would compare, but for sure you can ride pretty much
anything which has enough surface area to float. What you don't get
from the stiff-tail stuff (the nose matters less - this is powder) is
any "assistance" in the turns. The tail feels a bit "snatchy" on a
stiff-tailed board, and it's either in or it's out. With a softer tail
you seem to have a much wider range of options with the turn. Ditto
with a pin tail. But you probably know all that.

The main problem I have found in using plates with conventional powder
boards is stance width. Particularly Burton is into baggy-trousered
toilet-sitting stances and it can be a challenge to use hard boots
when they're that far apart. Perhaps I need longer legs. The Fish is
better in this respect.

[winter is a long way away]