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#21
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Snowboarding or skiing?
Why would hard boots be better than soft boots? I've been to the
bomberonline Web site already, but it seems to assume preexisting personal experience of the difference between the two. Also, are hard boots for snowboarding, as opposed to ski boots, difficult to find? Do most ski/board shops carry them, or are they a specialty item? Snowboard hard boots are indeed difficult to find. There are some shops that carry them, mostly in Vermont if I'm not mistaken, or one can order them online. One can start out in hard boots... it really helps to know someone who can help you get started since resorts don't offer hardboot lessons though. If you are interested, post on Bomber, there are several hard-booters who ride at 7 Springs. Mike T |
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#22
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Snowboarding or skiing?
couple of observations here...
first, there are only four resorts in the US that don't allow snowboarding, two of which are in my state of utah (doh!) deer valley and alta, as well as taos nm, and mad river glen in vermont. second, stepins are a great option for learning how to snowboard. they save you time, they allow you to get into the binding easier when you're not used to placing your heel into something that is 90% of the time *not* directly under you. burton makes IMO the best stepin setup, but k2, marker, rossignol, and others make different step in mechanisms as well. i dont' want to waste a lot of time debating the different systems, except to say that i started with the rossi system, quickly moved to the burton system because of its better hold to the binding, and then two years ago moved to straps, which are much better for advanced riding, but thats another flame war in and of itself. do *not* go with hard alpine boots to learn how to snowboard. the vernacular sometimes isn't consistent, so some people refer to step in boots by burton, or k2 or marker as "hard boots" which they are, as they have more internal stiffening built in, but then other people say "hard boots" and mean the alpine type that bomberonline tends to sell. one personal suggestion is that if you go with harder step in type boots and bindings that you get a binding with a high back. when i was learning it helped me greatly with edge to edge control, although it did make getting into the binding a wee bit harder at first. just an observation tho. lastly, i think the general consensus on the newsgroup is correct with regards to the learning curve for both sports. i *will* say tho that the learning curve for me snowboarding has been more pronounced than skiing. in other words, once i hit that intermediate level, my progression has been more obvious and has come quicker than with skiing. but, with anything, the more you go, the better you get. and i go a *lot*. now that i think of it, the more you go in a smaller time frame, the better. if you only have 10 days to ski/ride in the year, take as many of them as closely together as possible. that brain to body reactive memory works better if its a day to day thing rather than a week to week thing. all of that last part is my own stream of consciousness thing tho, so take it as such. oh, and snowboarding just feels sooooo gooooood! i never felt that skiing. when i'm making turns on a deep pow day and i'm on something steep, it's the best thing i've *ever* felt in my whole life. that having been said, i'm seriously thinking of taking up telemarking so i can enjoy the backcountry more. i don't mind bootpacking or snowshoeing, but when i see people skinning up stuff quick as get out, i'm envious of the medium. i'm hesitant about split boards, so that makes tele a real possibility. anyhow, i'll shut up now. hopefully all of this and the other posts taken together help you some. ciao! paul Joe Ramirez wrote: "Neil Gendzwill" wrote in message om... "Joe Ramirez" wrote in message ... 1. Am I correct about the learning curves of boarding vs. skiing? If not, what's the reality? The first 2 days are tougher on a board than skis (you *will* be stiff and sore). After that, snowboarding is a much faster path to intermediate skill. Once you're an intermediate, I'd say the learning curve to get to advanced/expert skill is about the same. I don't know if I will be able to put in the time to become advanced in either sport, but I certainly want to become an intermediate, so this is comforting. My skiing is rusty and my snowboarding pretty good, so with the limited time I now have in the hills I tend to ride. If I could get in more days I'd do both. If I could get in a lot of days I'd take up telemarking. Sliding downhill on snow == big fun, no matter the equipment. Exactly what is telemarking? I've seen this term before but I don't know what it means. 4. If I took up snowboarding and persevered long enough to become a decent rider, would I be able to hit the slopes with the brother and/or brother-in-law (I mean the ones within my capabilities)? Or is there something awkward about going snowboarding with skiers? Does one get "left in the dust," so to speak? The best solution to riding with skiers is to use step-in bindings, to avoid the main problem which is them having to wait around while you fiddle with straps. Aha. That sounds like good advice if I reach that stage. In fact, at your age and with your goals, I'd recommend hard boots with an Intec-compatible stepin and an all-mountain board. See www.bomberonline.com for more info on the hard-booting experience, and one of the friendliest and most helpful online communities. In particular check out the welcome centre (http://www.bomberonline.com/articles/welcome_center.cfm) and the forums (http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulleti...p?s=&forumid=2). Why would hard boots be better than soft boots? I've been to the bomberonline Web site already, but it seems to assume preexisting personal experience of the difference between the two. Also, are hard boots for snowboarding, as opposed to ski boots, difficult to find? Do most ski/board shops carry them, or are they a specialty item? Thanks, Joe Ramirez |
#23
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Snowboarding or skiing?
Joe Ramirez wrote:
Exactly what is telemarking? I've seen this term before but I don't know what it means. http://www.telemarknato.com/ Why would hard boots be better than soft boots? Less pain, more control, better interface (especially the step-ins). For all conditions except freestyle riding, hard boots are better. Some people prefer softies for powder, but I like my hard boots fine there too. And by hard, I mean hard plastic, snowboard-specific boots. They look like ski boots but on close inspection you will see that they are different. See http://www.bomberonline.com/Store/bo...uxe_lemans.cfm for an example. Older models of Raichle (now Deeluxe) are available for reasonable prices. Also, are hard boots for snowboarding, as opposed to ski boots, difficult to find? Do most ski/board shops carry them, or are they a specialty item? They're hard to find, bomberonline can help you locate them or sell them directly to you. A trick many people use is to try on the same brand of ski boots in a ski shop for size, then order that size from bomber or some other source. However, you'll most likely rent the first few times out and that will almost certainly be a soft rig. It is possible to learn on hardboots, but the realities of equipment rental make it tough. After you're hooked, then you can come over to the dark side of hardbooting. Neil |
#24
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Snowboarding or skiing?
1. Am I correct about the learning curves of boarding vs. skiing? If not,
what's the reality? I've never tried skiing, but that seems correct from folks I've talked to. What I do know is when I learned on a board, the first few days are definately hard. But, after you climb that first step, you start gaining confidence and ability very quickly. I went from barely being able to turn to able to get down steep slopes in just one season. Looking back now, I know that if I'd focused more when I was learning, and had good instruction all the way through, I could have gone through that much faster. Right now I'd consider myself an intermediate freerider, which means I can get down the double black diamond runs here, but not without difficulty. Other people might call that advanced, but I've seen a few *real* riders, so I evaluate myself lower on the scale . I feel like I'm comming up on another step though... I think within the next season or two the last things will click together, and I'll finally be confident in trees and be able to bomb steep and bumpy. I'm pretty conservative really, and don't push that hard or risk breaking myself in half. I think that says something about how quickly you can move through the intermediate stage freeriding on a board. 3. I understand that virtually all ski resorts now welcome snowboarders as well. But are there any "skiers only" trails or slopes? Not heard of anything like that. There are slopes that are hard on boarders... we can't use poles to push oursleves accross long flats or up hill. In your first few days this can be frustrating, but once you get over the beginner hump, you'll be comfortable keeping enough speed that you cruise past flats and short uphill sections. 4. If I took up snowboarding and persevered long enough to become a decent rider, would I be able to hit the slopes with the brother and/or brother-in-law (I mean the ones within my capabilities)? Or is there something awkward about going snowboarding with skiers? Does one get "left in the dust," so to speak? Depends on the skiiers ability compared to yours. I've boarded alongside some folks I consider advanced skiiers, and I definately was left way behind... but that's because they can straightline some of the nastiest stuff on Mt Hood (hood locals, read as: straighlining powderkeg). But, if you're riding with skiiers of similar ability, meaning that you're both comfortable on the same kinds of terrain, I find that you keep a pretty similar pace. It's mostly about what terrain you're each comfortable with, not skis vs boards. And chances are, they might complain about having to stop for a few seconds for you to wait up, but inside they're thankful they've got an excuse to catch their breath ;P. If you're worried about your skiier buddies complaining while you strap in at the tops of runs, step in bindings are quick. There's also some strap style bindings that are quick to get into. The salomon bindings I use have a toe strap that doesn't come all the way undone, which speeds things up. Again, if you're riding with friends and past the beginner hump it's really not an issue. If you have folks who are willing to help you learn skiing, that might be a factor. But, if you chose the board, I'd suggest you get some pads and do a few lessons with a quality instructor to get through the beginner hump quick and mostly painless. After that, if you just focus on having a clean style and consistantly push your comfort limit in small steps, you'll likely learn a lot quicker than I have . |
#25
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Snowboarding or skiing?
Joe,
I'll share based on my own personal experiences...take it for what it's worth: 1. Am I correct about the learning curves of boarding vs. skiing? If not, what's the reality? I personally found snowboarding to be easier to learn, but a more painful experience for the first day. 2. If you both ski and ride, which do you prefer, and why? If you ride but don't ski, do you have any sense that you're missing out on an important part of the winter mountain experience? I do both, and I enjoy boarding more. Smoother feel, easier to control, and..let's face it, it's just cooler. 4. If I took up snowboarding and persevered long enough to become a decent rider, would I be able to hit the slopes with the brother and/or brother-in-law (I mean the ones within my capabilities)? Or is there something awkward about going snowboarding with skiers? Does one get "left in the dust," so to speak? You are no more at risk for awkwardness with skiiers than with boarders. If you're main goal is to enjoy the experience with them, you will find a way. My dad just took up boarding (I'm 21, he's 46) and thought he was going to hate it and take a pounding. The 'pounding' was much less severe than he thought it would be, and next we go out he's boarding again. You sound about as athletic as him. He only had minor skiing experience. He would probably give you the same answers to your questions that I have. I agree with most on this thread...you'll have fun either way. Enjoy, Eric |
#26
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Snowboarding or skiing?
Joe Ramirez wrote:
Now, in 2. season, I come down the hill on my board as well as I came down on ski 15 years ago. I will never go back to ski. This is probably the most important consideration for me. Starting at a relatively late age, and with limited time to spend on the slopes, I want to able to achieve reasonable proficiency quickly enough to be able to enjoy it. I don't want to spend years working at something each winter without ever becoming more than an advanced beginner or low intermediate. But remember: for a beginner skiing is easier. To enjoy it without *pain* in every part of the body you need more time with the board then you need with skiers. And most important, don't try to learn it by yourself. Take a lesson, two or three days is a good choice. Have a lot of fun. -- Satisfy your thirst for life! NP: Bob Dylan - Shelter from the Storm |
#27
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Snowboarding or skiing?
"WeatherCam" wrote in message ...
As Steve says, it very much depends on your physical condition....if you are carrying extra weight and really are not that flexible, then learning to snowboard at age 42 can be quite painful and you will really feel the aches and pains True. Snowboarding is an athletic activity, and being in good shape helps a lot. However people with lesser shape can learn as well. What I recommend is taking a lesson, practicing on your own for a while, then take a follow up lesson. This should introduce you into the sport with minimal pain. - just getting your straps done up around your boots and then getting back up on your feet can be quite energetic if you have a bit of a middle aged stomach.... It's one of the myths about straps - that you have to sit down to get your boots strapped in. You don't. I use straps on my freeride board, and basically I never sit down during my riding sessions. And I strap in and out a lot (the hills I ride are short). Either find a flat spot, or dig your downhill edge into the snow (while having your board perpendicular to the fall-line), and you can strap in standing. Besides the original poster can get a step-in, which I strongly recommend in his case. Either that or flows bindings. |
#28
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Snowboarding or skiing?
"Joe Ramirez" wrote in message ...
Is it possible to "just go straight" on a snowboard? Or is constant back and forth turning required to descend a slope? It is possible but not recommended. You can get by going flat on a relatively moderate inclined slopes (beginner areas), but on more advanced terrain your speed will increase to a point where going flat is dangerous. You can easily get thrown off to the side by uneven snow surface and catch the downhill edge. This will slam you down hard. Being slightly on the edge, on the other hand, gives you the control you want at all time. And once you learn how to carve you will WANT TO turn, since carving turns are a pure pleasure to perform. You simply lean over the edge, and let the board turn for you (hence the shape of the board). You will feel like one with the mountain. Truly great experience. Good luck in your learning! |
#29
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Snowboarding or skiing?
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#30
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Snowboarding or skiing?
"Joe Ramirez" wrote For the record I skied for about 10 years, did no snowsports for 3, and then started boarding at age 27. I'm 33 now and I plan to board my entire life. Another such vote. May I ask why? What converted you from skiing to snowboarding? One reason was already given here by somebody - snowboarding is a more radical departure from the usual instinctive reactions, it requires learning a substantially different set of skills compared to what you are used to in daily life. Skiing has a somewhat more conventional motorics involved. (try learning to kitesurf for an ultimate brain melt). The other reason might be that unlike skiers snowboarders have an extra dimention of control over the edge of the board that is digging the trench in the snow. Because both legs are attached to the board, you can control the board's pressure distribution along the edge by independently moving your ankles/feet/knees - that's something skiers can't do. |
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