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can only ride with my back binding loose - why?



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 29th 03, 06:41 AM
Dmitry
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Posts: n/a
Default can only ride with my back binding loose - why?

Here's the story: I can only be comfortably riding my board if I leave
the back leg binding really loose - such that I can move the boot
in the binding a little bit (well, not a little actually). If I don't, I'll just
be falling all over the place and my back leg muscles will become
so sore after only 10 minutest of riding I won't be able to stand up
at all.

Because of my lack of experience and especially lack of experience
with different gear, I can't even figure out what to adjust to get it
right. Tried all kinds of angles, tried adjusting the back support
angle - no go, and what's more embarrasing is that all this playing
around with my gear didn't get me closer to understanging why
is this happening...

I understand that it's hard to figure out what's really going on, but
what would you recommend me to try? I haven't touched adjusting
the width of my stance yet or moving the bindings off the center
axis, but given the fact that I can ride ok with my existing settings
with loosened back binding I just didn't think it could help.

I'm heading for the mountain tomorrow (been on Baker yesterday,
will try Crystal tomorrow), so if somebody can throw out some ideas
I'll try them out and report back.

Or maybe I need a binding that has adjustable tilt?

TIA!

Background:
intermediate snowboarder (1 season)
mostly freeride but will jump anything that I can find on my way down
Palmer Carbon Circle 158 (a bitch to ride for a skinny guy like me, but
I still love it!)
Salomon SP-4 binding
Salomon Synapse boots.
5'11 tall, around 155 pounds (yeah, skinny)




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  #2  
Old November 29th 03, 02:06 PM
Chet Hayes
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Posts: n/a
Default can only ride with my back binding loose - why?

"Dmitry" wrote in message news:ScXxb.348800$Fm2.352785@attbi_s04...
Here's the story: I can only be comfortably riding my board if I leave
the back leg binding really loose - such that I can move the boot
in the binding a little bit (well, not a little actually). If I don't, I'll just
be falling all over the place and my back leg muscles will become
so sore after only 10 minutest of riding I won't be able to stand up
at all.

Because of my lack of experience and especially lack of experience
with different gear, I can't even figure out what to adjust to get it
right. Tried all kinds of angles, tried adjusting the back support
angle - no go, and what's more embarrasing is that all this playing
around with my gear didn't get me closer to understanging why
is this happening...

I understand that it's hard to figure out what's really going on, but
what would you recommend me to try? I haven't touched adjusting
the width of my stance yet or moving the bindings off the center
axis, but given the fact that I can ride ok with my existing settings
with loosened back binding I just didn't think it could help.

I'm heading for the mountain tomorrow (been on Baker yesterday,
will try Crystal tomorrow), so if somebody can throw out some ideas
I'll try them out and report back.

Or maybe I need a binding that has adjustable tilt?

TIA!

Background:
intermediate snowboarder (1 season)
mostly freeride but will jump anything that I can find on my way down
Palmer Carbon Circle 158 (a bitch to ride for a skinny guy like me, but
I still love it!)
Salomon SP-4 binding
Salomon Synapse boots.
5'11 tall, around 155 pounds (yeah, skinny)



IMO, the fact that your back leg muscles hurt after 10 minutes would
point toward incorrect binding mounting. You didn't tell us how you
have them set up, but if they are too far apart or the back angle is
not right for you, that could make them uncomfortable. In the FAQs
there is a section on binging mounting:

http://www.vpas.fsnet.co.uk/rssFAQ/framed.html

For someone like you, about 21" apart, centered back about 1.5 inches,
with a front angle of 22, back of 6 would be a place to start. But it
varies by rider, you need to find a comfortable stance for you.
  #3  
Old November 29th 03, 08:38 PM
Jason M.
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Posts: n/a
Default can only ride with my back binding loose - why?

Hi Dmitry,

"Dmitry" wrote in message news:ScXxb.348800$Fm2.352785@attbi_s04...
Here's the story: I can only be comfortably riding my board if I leave
the back leg binding really loose


Regarding the loose binding:
Is it loose becuase you are trying to shift your foot to a more
comfortable spot during the turn? Like pivoting the foot? Generally,
the straps should be snug across ankle and top of foot area. You
still need to be able to tweak your ankle sideways (forward and back)
along the length of the board. If your boot lifts before the toe
pulls against the toe strap, that is too loose. This looseness will
give you a margin of error on initiating the turn, like a steering
wheel on a car, so a little twitch doesn't take the car of the road at
90 mph. But you want to be able to dial that twitch, so you have good
response.

Regarding the turn:
Try a duckfoot stance (+12, -6). Initiate the turn with weight on the
front foot, axis across your shoulders parallel with the hill (tilted
somewhat downhill that is), and then let your rear leg pull through
the turn after initiated. Pull along the edge like you are cutting a
trench in the snow. Your tail end should not slide out or kick out.
Your edge should bite.

Your hands and arms should be at your side. You don't want "rudder
arm" where your back arm is up and flapping around for balance. That
means you are probably sliding the rear end out.

I'm guessing you are compensating with the rear foot because you
aren't forward enough in the turn.

Best of luck
Jason
  #4  
Old November 30th 03, 08:27 AM
Arvin Chang
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default can only ride with my back binding loose - why?

"Dmitry" wrote in message news:ScXxb.348800$Fm2.352785@attbi_s04...
Here's the story: I can only be comfortably riding my board if I leave
the back leg binding really loose - such that I can move the boot
in the binding a little bit (well, not a little actually). If I don't, I'll just
be falling all over the place and my back leg muscles will become
so sore after only 10 minutest of riding I won't be able to stand up
at all.

Because of my lack of experience and especially lack of experience
with different gear, I can't even figure out what to adjust to get it
right. Tried all kinds of angles, tried adjusting the back support
angle - no go, and what's more embarrasing is that all this playing
around with my gear didn't get me closer to understanging why
is this happening...

I understand that it's hard to figure out what's really going on, but
what would you recommend me to try? I haven't touched adjusting
the width of my stance yet or moving the bindings off the center
axis, but given the fact that I can ride ok with my existing settings
with loosened back binding I just didn't think it could help.

I'm heading for the mountain tomorrow (been on Baker yesterday,
will try Crystal tomorrow), so if somebody can throw out some ideas
I'll try them out and report back.


Hmm... you didn't even tell us your current binding setup or which
back strap is loosened (toe or ankle). You probably should try moving
your bindings back towards the tail (maybe 1-3" setback), this gives
you backleg more leverage on turns and could reduce the backleg
fatigue that you are experiencing. Decreasing your stance width will
also give you more leverage. Too much forward lean can also cause leg
fatigue. So will improper technique. Get someone on the mountain to
take a look at why you are falling when you binding is tightened, I'm
guessing it will be pretty obvious.

I will say this, whatever you are doing now, I serious doubt that you
are riding very well if your back strap is extremely loose, I mean
there IS a reason for it to be there. Sure you might be able to scrape
your way down the slopes, but it's like steering a biking with one
hand holding a large slushie drink - meaning that it isn't as good as
you could be if you equipment is properly setup and used.

I remember when I first started out riding I played with my bindings
setup pretty much every day. Very early on I found out that you need
to force yourself to stick with a particular binding setup at least a
day to used to (when you are a beginner, I've discoverd many years
later that I can change my setup drastically without it effecting my
riding significantly). You could systematic try out different
combinations and note what changes occur with each setup (that's the
key thing, if you change binding setup without bothering to even try
to figure out what each setup feels like... you are going to be doomed
into "repeating" your "mistakes").
  #5  
Old December 2nd 03, 09:44 PM
Dmitry
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default can only ride with my back binding loose - why?


"Jason M." wrote

Here's the story: I can only be comfortably riding my board if I leave
the back leg binding really loose


I'm guessing you are compensating with the rear foot because you
aren't forward enough in the turn.


First off, thanks Jason, Chet and Arvin for your replies. I didn't get to try the
duckfoot stance yet, but after another day of riding I came to a conclusion that
it was a combination of three things:
1. poor technique (yes, wasn't forward enough)
2. incorrect highback angle plus incorrect binding placement (too much heel overhang)
3. number 1 exaggregated by a very stiff board

I was riding Ok with both bindings tight by the end of the day, at about +21/+6
degrees.

Now, because you guys are such a helpful bunch I'll ask for some more
advice, this time it's about board choice.

I found out yesterday that the weight I've gained idling between kiteboarding
and snowboarding seasons (was 165) is completely gone, and now I'm only
150 lbs and looks like it will drop even more. The Palmer Carbon Circle 158
I have now is such a handfull for me that I'm getting tired pretty fast on the
slopes and have to rest a lot and/or get sloppy, which is not something this
board allows doing

So the quesion is: do I hang on and try to wrestle with this board and improve
my technique, or give myself some slack and get something softer (or shorter)?
This Palmer was quite appropriate when I lived in California last season with
its huge fast mountains that were perfect for straight bombing, but now that I'm
in Seattle there's more of the bumpy stuff to deal with..

I'm mostly concerned with my skill growth. Will forcing myself to fight a
marginally too stiff a board be likely to iron out bad habits and improve skill?

BTW, here's a review of this board that specifically says "lighter riders
may have trouble":
http://www.boardreviews.com/reviews/...ircle_158.html

TIA!

--
Dmitry


  #6  
Old December 4th 03, 06:03 PM
Jason Watkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default can only ride with my back binding loose - why?

I'm mostly concerned with my skill growth. Will forcing myself to fight a
marginally too stiff a board be likely to iron out bad habits and improve skill?


I'm in about the same situation as you, and have been wondering the
same thing. I'm down to 145lbs or so, and ride a donek wide 161. I
have no idea what weight range the wide 161 is designed for, but I'm
sure I'm way low of median.

Last season was my first consistantly riding, and I really learned a
lot. Sometimes I definately felt that things would be easier with a
softer board or a touch smaller sidecut. Especially when I try to make
carved turns in less than perfect snow, I feel like I just don't have
enough mass to bend the board properly. But at other times, I'm very
glad I have a stiff stable board... you can just set that edge in and
then lean back on the tail to power through choppy crud.

In the end, I think it's not as easy, and probibly not ideal, but I've
still learned and done well, so I don't think it's a huge barrier. I
wouldn't worry about it so much. One sure way to find out would be to
demo a board for a day. I take runs on friend's gear every so often,
and on the softer, shorter boards, things definately feel much more
mellow. But at the same time, I don't feel nearly as confident getting
a little speed. So, I've stuck with what I've got, and am still
learning, and don't really worry about it anymore .
  #7  
Old December 4th 03, 07:23 PM
Arvin Chang
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default can only ride with my back binding loose - why?

"Dmitry" wrote in message news:GI7zb.397180$HS4.3207868@attbi_s01...
First off, thanks Jason, Chet and Arvin for your replies. I didn't get to try the
duckfoot stance yet, but after another day of riding I came to a conclusion that
it was a combination of three things:
1. poor technique (yes, wasn't forward enough)
2. incorrect highback angle plus incorrect binding placement (too much heel overhang)
3. number 1 exaggregated by a very stiff board

I was riding Ok with both bindings tight by the end of the day, at about +21/+6
degrees.


Cool, sounds good.

Now, because you guys are such a helpful bunch I'll ask for some more
advice, this time it's about board choice.

I found out yesterday that the weight I've gained idling between kiteboarding
and snowboarding seasons (was 165) is completely gone, and now I'm only
150 lbs and looks like it will drop even more. The Palmer Carbon Circle 158
I have now is such a handfull for me that I'm getting tired pretty fast on the
slopes and have to rest a lot and/or get sloppy, which is not something this
board allows doing

So the quesion is: do I hang on and try to wrestle with this board and improve
my technique, or give myself some slack and get something softer (or shorter)?
This Palmer was quite appropriate when I lived in California last season with
its huge fast mountains that were perfect for straight bombing, but now that I'm
in Seattle there's more of the bumpy stuff to deal with..

I'm mostly concerned with my skill growth. Will forcing myself to fight a
marginally too stiff a board be likely to iron out bad habits and improve skill?


I was faced with a similar decision with my Salomon Definition 156 as
it are marginally too stiff for general freeriding. It was great on
big, wide open runs where I could blast down the mountain, but I was a
little hampered in tight spaces like while riding through the trees.
For me, I still could ride through the trees without stopping, it just
wasn't as effortless as I would have liked (felt more like a slalom
racing skimming by race flags). So I decided to move to what I'm told
is bit softer and more responsive board.

Since you are still learning how to snowboard, I would say that you
need a softer board that fits your riding style even more than me. So
yea, change your board.

--Arvin
  #8  
Old December 5th 03, 02:55 PM
Chet Hayes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default can only ride with my back binding loose - why?

You could go with a shorter board, however the one you have is not
unreasonable. If you want to try a different board, go to a decent
shop and ask to demo one. They have relatively new boards that you
can rent for the day. I've done this and gotten some really nice
Burton's that were either brand new or very close. It's the best way
to find out before buying one.
  #9  
Old December 12th 03, 02:25 AM
k
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default can only ride with my back binding loose - why?

(Chet Hayes) wrote in message . com...
"Dmitry" wrote in message news:ScXxb.348800$Fm2.352785@attbi_s04...
Here's the story: I can only be comfortably riding my board if I leave
the back leg binding really loose - such that I can move the boot
in the binding a little bit (well, not a little actually). If I don't, I'll just
be falling all over the place and my back leg muscles will become
so sore after only 10 minutest of riding I won't be able to stand up
at all.

Because of my lack of experience and especially lack of experience
with different gear, I can't even figure out what to adjust to get it
right. Tried all kinds of angles, tried adjusting the back support
angle - no go, and what's more embarrasing is that all this playing
around with my gear didn't get me closer to understanging why
is this happening...

I understand that it's hard to figure out what's really going on, but
what would you recommend me to try? I haven't touched adjusting
the width of my stance yet or moving the bindings off the center
axis, but given the fact that I can ride ok with my existing settings
with loosened back binding I just didn't think it could help.

I'm heading for the mountain tomorrow (been on Baker yesterday,
will try Crystal tomorrow), so if somebody can throw out some ideas
I'll try them out and report back.

Or maybe I need a binding that has adjustable tilt?

TIA!

Background:
intermediate snowboarder (1 season)
mostly freeride but will jump anything that I can find on my way down
Palmer Carbon Circle 158 (a bitch to ride for a skinny guy like me, but
I still love it!)
Salomon SP-4 binding
Salomon Synapse boots.
5'11 tall, around 155 pounds (yeah, skinny)



IMO, the fact that your back leg muscles hurt after 10 minutes would
point toward incorrect binding mounting. You didn't tell us how you
have them set up, but if they are too far apart or the back angle is
not right for you, that could make them uncomfortable. In the FAQs
there is a section on binging mounting:

http://www.vpas.fsnet.co.uk/rssFAQ/framed.html

For someone like you, about 21" apart, centered back about 1.5 inches,
with a front angle of 22, back of 6 would be a place to start. But it
varies by rider, you need to find a comfortable stance for you.



i have been riding for six years and for the first four i rode 15
front and 6 back... and what i learned the past two years is 15 front
15 back is so much better. knees feel better legs dont hurt and riding
switch is a breeze .....
 




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