Stiffness of Newbie Boot

Hi, I am looking to buy my first pair of boarding boots after I had a
lot of problems getting rental boots which hold my foot well the few
times I've tried. I did lots of reading on 'net sites and then went
to several shops trying on lots of boots. The most comfortable fit
and tightest hold on my ankle seems to have come from the Salomon F22
and F24 boots. However, I'm told these are quite stiff and so I am
wondering if they are too stiff for a newbie like me? Are stiff boots
a bad idea for a newbie, or should you just go for the best fitting
boot irrespective?

In all I've had a few lessons and a weeks boarding.

Hope someone can give a little guidance!

Louis

The most comfortable fit
and tightest hold on my ankle seems to have come from the Salomon F22
and F24 boots. However, I'm told these are quite stiff and so I am
wondering if they are too stiff for a newbie like me? Are stiff boots
a bad idea for a newbie, or should you just go for the best fitting
boot irrespective?

My opinion is that the 3 most important things to consider when buying
snowboards boots are fit, fit, and fit. Stiff boots make it easier to get
up on edge and turn, but if you are riding sloppily you are more prone to
unwanted edge catches which will make you fall.

If your boots don't fit well, you won't have good control and your feet will
most likely hurt and that's no fun. I personally would rather see someone
in a pair of boots that's a little stuff but fits well, the boost will break
in and you will learn to handle them, but boots that fit poorly will
probably never fit any better.

There are things you can do to improve fit on a pair of boots - get better
footbeds, or even a moldable liner (if they are two-piece boots - the models
you mention are 1-piece, i.e. that have an integrated liner). Most people
can benefit from a pair of US$30 Superfeet footbeds; moldable liners are as
expensive as some boots.

One question - how much do you weigh?

"Stiff" is all relative to your size. For me at 195 pounds, no boot is too
stiff. If I weighed 130, I might want something softer.

Mike T

"Mike T" wrote in message news:uDdNd.4549$uc.987@trnddc05...
The most comfortable fit
and tightest hold on my ankle seems to have come from the Salomon F22
and F24 boots. However, I'm told these are quite stiff and so I am
wondering if they are too stiff for a newbie like me? Are stiff boots
a bad idea for a newbie, or should you just go for the best fitting
boot irrespective?

One question - how much do you weigh?

"Stiff" is all relative to your size. For me at 195 pounds, no boot is too
stiff. If I weighed 130, I might want something softer.

Thanks for the response. I only weigh in at 135 pounds (61 kilos), so
unfortunately right at the lower end of that range!

So do you think it is a case of simply biting the bullet and learning
to snowboard un-sloppily from day one, or would you strongly recommend
expanding my search because of my weight and/or inexperience?

Many thanks

Louis

A lot of the stiffness issue is personal preference. I agree with Mike
that it's far more important how well a boot fits than how stiff it is.
Generally, stiffer boots are preferred for free riding, a softer boot
for free style. I think you'll probably do fine with a stiffer boot,
even as a beginner. It's something you'll just get used to after a few
days and never even really notice.

(Louis Aslett) wrote in
om:

So do you think it is a case of simply biting the bullet and learning
to snowboard un-sloppily from day one, or would you strongly recommend
expanding my search because of my weight and/or inexperience?

I've ridden stiff boots from day one. Anything else just feels wrong, like
I have no control over the board. I think you will be fine with a stiff
boot. Do you have the chance to try some out?

Tim

So do you think it is a case of simply biting the bullet and learning
to snowboard un-sloppily from day one, or would you strongly
recommend
expanding my search because of my weight and/or inexperience?

I think fit matters most. I learned on Salomon Malamutes, which are
fairly stiff, and it didn't seem to hold me back.

The only difference stifness makes is, you can't use pushing or pulling
your toes up and down as much to regulate edge angle. So you have to
learn to use your knees and balance at the waist when you tip the board
up and your hips move past the edge.

If you're really interested in freestyle, in particular jibbin, I'm
told you want something a little softer.

Louis Aslett wrote:
Hi, I am looking to buy my first pair of boarding boots after I had a
lot of problems getting rental boots which hold my foot well the few
times I've tried. I did lots of reading on 'net sites and then went
to several shops trying on lots of boots. The most comfortable fit
and tightest hold on my ankle seems to have come from the Salomon F22
and F24 boots. However, I'm told these are quite stiff and so I am
wondering if they are too stiff for a newbie like me? Are stiff
boots
a bad idea for a newbie, or should you just go for the best fitting
boot irrespective?

In all I've had a few lessons and a weeks boarding.

Hope someone can give a little guidance!

Louis

I agree with the general opinion that fit (for softboots) takes
precedence over whether a boot is too stiff. Salomon does make stiff
boots, but I don't think the F boots are as stiff as the Malamute (very
stiff) and I doubt you will have significant issues with it. Being able
to use your toes to pull up and push down is a key skill, and often
neglected by stiff/hardboot riders who rely on their knee/hips too much
and then are unable to snowboard when using medium/soft boots - they
assume it's the boots that are fault - which is only partially true.

Nevertheless, you won't be able to do *anything* if the boots don't fit
and you get heel lift. I assumed you walked around with them on in the
store... if they felt a little stiff in the store, then they'll be fine
on the mountain as you will break them in a little and you can apply a
lot more pressure while moving.

My key concern is that Salomon liners break down a lot... almost a
fullsize after only 15 days of riding... so I would suggest you try to
find the smallest boot you can bear to wear and use that. By tight I
mean toes pressing against the end of the boot, but *not* curled, and
everything else a *snug* fit, but no pressure points

lonerider wrote:
Being able
to use your toes to pull up and push down is a key skill, and often
neglected by stiff/hardboot riders who rely on their knee/hips too much
and then are unable to snowboard when using medium/soft boots - they
assume it's the boots that are fault - which is only partially true.

It's completely true. Having to pull up on your toes is ridiculous - I
can't think of a weaker way to use your legs, and for me that just leads
to cramped calves.

Neil

lonerider wrote:
stiff) and I doubt you will have significant issues with it. Being
able
to use your toes to pull up and push down is a key skill, and often
neglected by stiff/hardboot riders who rely on their knee/hips too
much
and then are unable to snowboard when using medium/soft boots - they
assume it's the boots that are fault - which is only partially true.

I should reiterate and elaborate this.

As mentioned, it is harder to flex/extend your ankles in stiffer boots
(although not impossible as people do it in hardboots) but is an
important skill to have, even for hardboot riders. So if people can do
it in hardboots, you can *definitely* do it in softboots, once you
build up the leg strength. My concern is that it isn't easy for
beginner to use their ankles with stiff boots and then they neglect
this skill (because riding with hips/knees is much easier) and this
type of muscle/skill imbalance leads to "holes" in their riding
technique. This is perfectly fine technique when you have a big wide
empty slope to turn on... but in tight, crowded situation, it takes a
long time to go from edge to edge in this way.

Hardboots tend to magnify this issue because they boots are so stiff
that most rider just "lean" their legs into the boot cuffs to get the
board up on edge (also the higher angles make knees/hips more important
than ankles). I went to a alpine snowboard clinic and one of the first
things that the instructor (Sean Cassidy) did was have everyone change
their hardboots to walk mode (softing up the flex of the boot) so that
they could work on flexing/extending their toes. This gives you a
greater feel for the snow and a much finer control over your board -
allowing you to adjust your turn radius, absorb bumps, and change edges
more quickly than when using your hips/knees. Because of this, I think
this is why most hardbooters are unable to ride softboots (they've
forgotten how to flex/extend their ankles), that and they are comparing
their 10 year old, discount softboot gear with their top of the line,
custom made and custom fitted hardboot gear.

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 16:25:06 -0600, Neil Gendzwill
wrote:

It's completely true. Having to pull up on your toes is ridiculous - I
can't think of a weaker way to use your legs, and for me that just leads
to cramped calves.

I have to agree with Neil. There is no reason to ever use your toes,
even in soft boots. That's my story, and I'm sticking with it.

-- Robert