Riller - which one is the best?

The warmer wet temps are coming and I sure don't want to carry suction cups
under my boots anymore. I must get a riller! These are the tools available
in my area:
.. Toko Nordic Structurite Riller
.. Swix Base Structurer
.. Holmenkol Tri-Maxx
.. Holmenkol XC Superstructure
I am looking for a good riller that will give me a good choice of structure,
that is user friendly and weel-built so it will last "forever". I have some
experience with the Tri-Maxx and liked the results; I have not tried the
others.

Which one would you pick and why?

BarryT

I like the Toko roller machine because it give a dis-continuous structure,
more like the structure you get if you have your bases ground and
structured. Also, there is less risk of cutting or tearing the base.

Before that I used a Swix structuring tool and a Swix rilling bar. They did
a good job, but you had to watch that you didn't tear the base if you put
them on at the wrong angle. Also, the rills are continuous so I don't like
the pattern as much as that produced by the Toko.

I've never used the Holmenkol tools so I can't comment.

Scott

"Jérôme Croteau" wrote in message
. ..
The warmer wet temps are coming and I sure don't want to carry suction
cups
under my boots anymore. I must get a riller! These are the tools available
in my area:
. Toko Nordic Structurite Riller
. Swix Base Structurer
. Holmenkol Tri-Maxx
. Holmenkol XC Superstructure
I am looking for a good riller that will give me a good choice of
structure,
that is user friendly and weel-built so it will last "forever". I have
some
experience with the Tri-Maxx and liked the results; I have not tried the
others.

Which one would you pick and why?

BarryT

I concur. I use Toko, too. A good, stable ski bench is important for
good results.

--- Scott Elliot wrote:

I like the Toko roller machine because it give a dis-continuous

them on at the wrong angle. Also, the rills are continuous so I
don't like
the pattern as much as that produced by the Toko.

And for those of you who LIKE continuous rills, you can now buy extra
"blades" for the Toko riller that give you coarse and fine straight
rills. YOu can combine the broken and continuous rillers (coarse and
fine) to make different patterns. The pattern will come out of the
base with hot ironing, so do your rilling last. The swix riller is the
one to use if you want to set up a pair of skis with permanent rills.
(So, the answer to the originial question is of course: buy them all!).

Rob Bradlee
Toko Tech Team


=====
Rob Bradlee
Java, C++, Perl, XML, OOAD, Linux, and Unix Training

Jérôme Croteau wrote:
The warmer wet temps are coming and I sure don't want to carry suction cups
under my boots anymore. I must get a riller! These are the tools available
in my area:
. Toko Nordic Structurite Riller
. Swix Base Structurer
. Holmenkol Tri-Maxx
. Holmenkol XC Superstructure
I am looking for a good riller that will give me a good choice of structure,
that is user friendly and weel-built so it will last "forever". I have some
experience with the Tri-Maxx and liked the results; I have not tried the
others.

Which one would you pick and why?

BarryT


I would look at the Holmenkol Tri-Maxx or the Jenex system. The Jenex
is like the Holmenkol except the pattern rollers are not all in one big
frame. I have had a Swix riller and now hove the Toko tool. The Toko
tool can drag a little when you press real hard for deep structure. The
Jenex and the Holmenkol toll have the pattern rollers on bearings which
make a big difference. A freind of mine has the Jenex tool and has
already broken the shaft the the rollers slide onto. I was surfing the
web the other day and saw the Holmenkol Tri-Maxx for $199 some where but
I can't remember the site.
If I were buying a good structure tool now and wasn't worried about the
cost it would be the Holmenkol in first place and then the Jenex tool.
The Jenex system is $80 for the handle and $50 for each pattern roller.
Good luck
Jeff

Rob,

I have the toko with the straight rills in addition to the broken ones.
Do you do any brushing after, or do you rill only after you've let
them cool and done the final brush?

Yes, I would definitely brush afterward.

What I'd often do on a ski:

Iron, scrape, brush with LF or HF wax.
Rill
Brush again with polishing brush.
Rub on Jetstream (if appplicable), cork, brush, polish

Rob

--- wrote:

Rob,

I have the toko with the straight rills in addition to the broken
ones.
Do you do any brushing after, or do you rill only after you've let
them cool and done the final brush?








=====
Rob Bradlee
Java, C++, Perl, XML, OOAD, Linux, and Unix Training

--- wrote:
Rob,

I have the toko with the straight rills in addition to the broken
ones.
Do you do any brushing after, or do you rill only after you've let
them cool and done the final brush?

"Rob Bradlee" wrote in message
. yahoo.com...
Yes, I would definitely brush afterward.

What I'd often do on a ski:

Iron, scrape, brush with LF or HF wax.
Rill
Brush again with polishing brush.
Rub on Jetstream (if appplicable), cork, brush, polish

Rob

I used again the Holmenkol Tri-Maxx last week-end. This one works so well
that's the one I'll be buying.

Ironed in LF4, scraped, brushed and rilled. Had to DP twice coming down the
test hill...
Brushed with the hard nylon brush about 10 times: DP'ed once.
Followed Rob's advice and brushed and brushed and brushed again: perfect
glide.

Repeated the procedure for all the kid's racing team skis: no wonder I was
sweating at minus 20C...

BarryT

BarryT wrote:
--- wrote:
Rob,

I have the toko with the straight rills in addition to the broken
ones.
Do you do any brushing after, or do you rill only after you've let
them cool and done the final brush?


"Rob Bradlee" wrote in message
. yahoo.com...

Yes, I would definitely brush afterward.

What I'd often do on a ski:

Iron, scrape, brush with LF or HF wax.
Rill
Brush again with polishing brush.
Rub on Jetstream (if appplicable), cork, brush, polish

Rob


I used again the Holmenkol Tri-Maxx last week-end. This one works so well
that's the one I'll be buying.

Ironed in LF4, scraped, brushed and rilled. Had to DP twice coming down the
test hill...
Brushed with the hard nylon brush about 10 times: DP'ed once.
Followed Rob's advice and brushed and brushed and brushed again: perfect
glide.

Repeated the procedure for all the kid's racing team skis: no wonder I was
sweating at minus 20C...

BarryT


Barry,

I'm missing something - why did you rill at -20C? Was there a special
snow problem or ???

Marsh

"Marsh Jones" wrote in message
...
Barry,

I'm missing something - why did you rill at -20C? Was there a special
snow problem or ???

Marsh

Let me first correct this: I should have used the term "pressed" structure,
not "rilled". Also that it wasn't -20C. At this temperature, there is no
race. It was much colder than that at 5 am, but by race time it was -16C.
The skis were cold skis, some with almost no structure, others with barely
any. Testing showed that a pressed fine structure was faster than no
structure. Actually, our kids did have faster skis; it seems most teams used
the same glider wax but we where the only one to press a structure...

BarryT

P.S. I did not reinvent the wheel. I simply applied advice read on this
webpage: http://www.engineeredtuning.net/hand.html In this text, which I
find is a fine piece of information written by Zach Caldwell, it is
recommended to press a fine linear pattern with a rolling structure tool for
very cold dry snow condiitons.