Let's Start A New Group

"Jan Gerrit Klok" wrote in message
...
"ellis" schreef in bericht
...

wrote in message
oups.com...

You may have a point. Rec.skiing.backcountry only gets about a dozen
posts
at a time, and I'm afraid a similar fate awaits another small group.

Although, I do propose we start a group devoted entirely to discussing
Ella
Gjomle's new full body race suit. Red = fast.

This does mean that I'll be needing a link for picture of that suit!

Oh, and that i'll be bugging y'all with very geeky rolleski questions and
ideas.

I'm designing some for myself as I find retail and shipping overly
expensive, product options limiting. Frames are simple beams with holes
cut
and drilled into them, a bit simple for larger (air)wheeled ones, but
wheels
are very cheap if you shop.
I may even build a set from a basic frame, old rollerblade wheels, and a
very cheezy icehockey boot. Such a bad plan, it just might work... But
before you'll complain : I do plan to buy Pilot bindings and boots.



http://tinyurl.com/mpvy5
http://tinyurl.com/okqht

Ella's a lovely woman to begin with. That Little Red Riding Hood outfit
puts it over the top. She started sporting it at the Olympics sprints, I
think.

I'm with you on rollerskis! Real pricey. Cost more than a good pair of xc
skis. That Czech rollerskis look good, I forget the name. Good luck
building yours.

schreef in bericht
ups.com...
For one approach to homemade rollerskis, see

http://www.xcskiworld.com/training/r...i_homemade.pdf

Cheers Hank!

Yes, that page was part of my my inspiration to begin with. I had the idea
of seeing whether anyone was making their own, after stumbling across really
cool home-made inline frames, a much more complicated product. That's the
only link I found.

For really slow or really fast rollerski's that home-made method seems
really straightforward and with limited loss of function over branded stuff.
After reading about the V2 Aero 150's, I want to make something like that,
quite a bit more complicated, but worth it IMO. Well-designed, a pair could
take wheels from 100mm or smaller, to 150mm and larger. Certainly never as
light as a high-end branded or race product, but my Crosskates I'm using now
are 7.6kg for the pair including boots anyway. My race mountainbike is less
than 1kg heavier. So I can handly some weight, and I'm sure the penalty of
homebrew won't be too bad. Perhaps the difference between normal and heavy
boots. And I'm a size 48 anyway.

After bugging you with my plans, when I've managed to (have someone) make
them, I'll be sure to share drawings and parts recommendations.
If I can find an aluminum beam, ~80x50x3mm, it's "just" a matter of removing
material and welding on a new top, much closer to the ground. I could run as
large as 200mm PU scooter wheels and as small as 100mm inline wheels. If I
choose to leave the option, even 2x2 wheels per foot as I see offered online
sometimes.
Anyone interested in making their own or with experience, please do contact
me.

Happy trails,

J

To TsarKaz'm The 99th
Try searching the internet. It works 4 me...

To TsarKaz'm The 99th
Try searching the internet. It works 4 me...

ellis wrote:...

I'm with you on rollerskis! Real pricey. Cost more than a good pair of xc
skis.

I don't think that's true- where I live a good pair of top line skis
costs $4-500 normal retail while, for example, the Jenex V2 line is
quite a bit less than that, more like $300.

I don't disagree that they're expensive though.

"Camilo" schreef in bericht
oups.com...

ellis wrote:...

I'm with you on rollerskis! Real pricey. Cost more than a good pair of
xc
skis.

I don't think that's true- where I live a good pair of top line skis
costs $4-500 normal retail while, for example, the Jenex V2 line is
quite a bit less than that, more like $300.

I don't disagree that they're expensive though.

And for a really low-tech product too!
Barely more complex than a $20 department store skateboard. Same numbers of
wheels, bearings, easier to produce frame (though 2 required), no need for
"trucks".

Would one day department stores have they own $50 rollerski's, including
boots, bindings integrated in the frame? $10 capable nordic walking poles
have already been spotted in my country, I heard...

What I've found so far.
-A shop http://www.scootergarage.ch/shop/pro...hp?show=AC0013 that sells
150mm/5.6bar air wheels (bit different from V2 Aero) for around $12/?10 a
piece. Many other, more expensive, options out there, with or without
one-way clutch.
-ABEC5 bearings (8 required) are just about $1 if you shop, although V2 says
they are using something really fancy. Let's say worth $2 retail ($16
total).
-The V2 frame itself hardly seems more than an alu beam with 2 folded and
indented plates of alu folded around it, and then welded on. Axle holes
drilled.
-Some (4) sets of spacers and bolts will be required to keep it all
together, depending on frame design.

Of Jenex/V2 have a business to run, keep quality to lead the market, dealers
to please, I know about all that.
Still, I hope to find possibility to make my own. Not a V2 150mm copy, I
left that idea, but something even more simply. Possibly more welding-area
involded, but in a non-stress place (sticking a flatform on a u-profile).
Material : a couple bucks.

By using $11-12, larger-than-seems-allowed-for-racing, 125mm and 145mm PU
wheels
http://www.scootergarage.ch/shop/pro...hp?show=AC0010 or
http://www.scootergarage.ch/shop/pro...hp?show=AC0010
(125, cheaper
still)http://www.sportolino.de/Zubehoer_Sc...zy_Creek_Scoot
er_Wheels_125mm_incl_Kugellager-14398-50760.html
I hope to get superior comfort/rough surface capabilty AND speed compared to
regular rollerski's, with just a slight weight penalty, irrelevant to me
working on technique mostly.

For more adventurous tours over bad roads (ghetto's/glass/needles) and
perhaps even dirt roads, 200x40mm (probably quite heavy) scooter wheels
exist which the manufacturers claim roll much faster than 100mm high-end
skate wheels as seen on micro scooters and rollerskis. $20 a pop including
bearings and spacer, but mileage should be good, and rollerskis could become
an alternative for the bike. No flats at least.

My main concern is brakes. I want some. May make/get reducers too.
Working on ideas to get really reliable panic brakes. Dead man's switch
cords connected to the poles (reach out and brake?) but afraid they'll get
in the way. Anyone an opinion on the V2 brakes? That's at least an advanced
product from them I'd be willing to pay for, if it really brakes.

Cheers,

J

I like your point about them not being any more high tech than a skate
board. How much does a super-grade, top of the line skate board cost?
One a real skate boarder with some money would buy - someone who is as
fanatical as a roller skier and as affluent?

When I think about the price of something I think in terms of 100%
mark-up at each step, for example:

$300 retail price for roller ski = $150 cost to store ($150 for
overhead, labor, profit)
$150 cost to store = $75 cost to manufacturer ($75 for overhead, labor,
profit)

So, thinking in terms of $75 in terms of materials, labor, etc. I
would think there's significant cost in research and devlopment as well
as liability insurance (for a US company).

Anyway, the bottom line is that millions of skateboards are made by
hundreds of different companies. Only a few companies make a few
thousands of roller skis. Not nearly as much efficiency of scale
probably.

Ultimately the price is determined by what people are willing to pay -
and roller skiers, compared to skate boarders, are probably just more
affluent and therefore not as price sensitive?

I'm just musing - I don't have an answer, but am interested in your
luck building a set!

I purchased a pair of home-made rollerskis from a guy who makes them
for racing teams in the area. My skis look very similar to the ones
shown in Hank's link
(http://www.xcskiworld.com/training/r...i_homemade.pdf), except
that mine sound more like his version 1 model. The wheels appear to be
the same model or at least very similar.

I have found that the wheels are much faster than any commercial
rollerski I've tried (mainly Elpex F1s) and are too fast to get a good
intensity workout or to do real technique work. Since the only place
to rollerski here is on regular roads, I have also run into
difficulties slowing down for corners at the bottom of big hills.

If you're building your own rollerskis, you should consider whether
having wheels that are too fast is a concern for you.

Colin

Good point made by Camilo :
I like your point about them not being any more high tech than a skate
board. How much does a super-grade, top of the line skate board cost?

Keep in mind that a newbie like myself will also be buying bindings and
boots on top of it all. Another $150 to begin with?

I do believe you get what you pay for with the V2's, and am not bashing the
product or price in any way. With a full wallet, I had purchased 2 pairs of
V2's with all available options and wheel sizes already. Perhaps even a
classic set to give that a go too.

High-end Skateboards do cost, although I've been out of the sport for 20
years almost now. But then, a high-end skateboard deck is not something one
home-crafts in an underequipped garage. Neither a set of trucks.
A saw, a file and some patience do make a rollerski. Cheap $1-2 wheels look
like they will do the trick, and go faster than most will be comfortable
with.
I guess what I should have expressed more clearly is that the entry-level of
rollerski's, especially those like the V2 Aero, is quite high. No cheapo
rip-off exist. Some ripoffs, but always $/?300+. Probably a situation like
when the very first high-end skateboards hit the market. Numbers indeed are
low, a couple dozen manufacturers are sharing a relatively small market.

If you're building your own rollerskis, you should consider whether
having wheels that are too fast is a concern for you.
At first I was actually appalled by the speeds I was expecting from fast
rollerski's. Also the idea of running tiny skate wheels seemed very
impractical for use on real roads. On top of that, I'm a mountainbiker at
heart, rollerski's seem like the "roadie" way to go, where I am now on
Crosskates, pretty much kid's mtb's on each foot.

The "too fast" aspect can be prevented with the ?10 150mm air wheels I'm
eyeing. No way those are going to freak me out in terms of speed. I run
thick slightly knobbed 250mm air tires now, and those are very manageable.
All being the same, smaller wheels are lighter, but slower. I hate my
current lack of functioning brakes though, they are not as Cross-Skate
advertizes and shows in video's.

On the nearly or complete car-free tracks I'll be rolling the homebrews, my
main objective is to keep up with my rollerblading friend, while getting a
ski-specific workout. Comfort of the larger PU wheels attracts me in a "big"
way. I won't be hitting traffic on ultra-fast ski's for sure, at least
unless I manage to find/fabricate dependable brakes. Being roadkill is not
my thing. As my fitness and technique progress, I hope to have exactly the
speed of my preference on slow, comfortable air wheels. Workout, speed,
dirt-capable, all in one.

I purchased a pair of home-made rollerskis from a guy who makes them
for racing teams in the area.
I think most rollerski's are "home-made", then?
Even the well-reputed Eagle that's located very near me seems to run factory
pretty much in the backroom of the rollerski shop. Perhaps the difference is
really just a sticker and website, then?

I have found that the wheels are much faster than any commercial
rollerski I've tried (mainly Elpex F1s) and are too fast to get a good
intensity workout or to do real technique work.
So is my very basic impression then correct, that rollerski racing with
their sickening average speeds are like inline skating while taking some
poles along? An extreme sport almost, having so much speed, no steering and
no brakes?




schreef in bericht
ups.com...
I purchased a pair of home-made rollerskis from a guy who makes them
for racing teams in the area. My skis look very similar to the ones
shown in Hank's link
(http://www.xcskiworld.com/training/r...i_homemade.pdf), except
that mine sound more like his version 1 model. The wheels appear to be
the same model or at least very similar.

I have found that the wheels are much faster than any commercial
rollerski I've tried (mainly Elpex F1s) and are too fast to get a good
intensity workout or to do real technique work. Since the only place
to rollerski here is on regular roads, I have also run into
difficulties slowing down for corners at the bottom of big hills.

If you're building your own rollerskis, you should consider whether
having wheels that are too fast is a concern for you.

Colin

"Camilo" wrote in message
oups.com...

ellis wrote:...

I'm with you on rollerskis! Real pricey. Cost more than a good pair of
xc
skis.

I don't think that's true- where I live a good pair of top line skis
costs $4-500 normal retail while, for example, the Jenex V2 line is
quite a bit less than that, more like $300.

I don't disagree that they're expensive though.


I can pick up a pair of Madshus Ultrasonic, which is in their "race
performance" tier, for $115 on sale. I can't even buy a bottom of the line
rollerskis at that price.