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#1
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Seefeld - Leutasch in Austria
I had fun skiing a day at Seefeld and a day at neighboring Leutasch --
northwest from Innsbruck near the border with Germany. But it didn't strike me as the best place in Europe. I liked Leutasch better: more spectacular mountains in close view from the ski trails, quieter and more remote, more opportunities for more fun skating, much gentler. I liked that Seefeld - Leutasch is in reasonable driving range of other fun kinds of skiing (like one morning I drove south to the Stubai mountains for downhill and backcountry skiing), and valley non-skiing things (like walking around the city of Innsbruck). Some German automobile club voted Seefeld the best for cross-country skiing. The only interpretation I can put on this result is: Most of those voters never skied the best places in France (or North America), and most of them like Classic more than Skating. Maybe my judgment is just a result of my skiing prejudices: My idea of fun cross-country skiing trail design is up - down - up - down - up - down. Do a little work, get a little reward. The design of many European XC ski trails (including many of the Seefeld skating trails) is up - up - up, then down - down - down. For me that's too long a deferral of insufficient gratification. For me La Feclaz near Chambery in France gets it right, for its rhythm of rolling ups and downs. Les Saisies shows how to have as much hill-climbing as Seefeld, but mix in more fun downhills along the way, and somehow make it all more interesting than Seefeld. Maybe I would have found this on the Classic trails at Seefeld -- or maybe it's Leutasch that's working on delivering the fun for skaters: I found a new trail there called Waldloipe which felt like a good start toward a higher level of fun. I've seen some claims that Seefeld - Leutasch is the largest XC ski center in Europe, something like 262 km of trails. Is the Oslo Nordmarka not part of "Europe"? Could it be that the Jura have a larger network of interconnected groomed trail? Anyway for Skating this claim is a joke. I could not find out on the snow or on the map a skating-permissible trail which connects Seefeld with Leutasch (and that's not the only skating disconnect in the five-village network). I saw one advertisement which said they've only got 110km of skating trails. Like Ramsau in Austria, for Skating, They just don't get it. Seefeld is a good place to ski in Austria, but the world is bigger than that. Look forward to hearing from other skiers with more and different experiences around Seefeld -- and different preferences. Ken P.S. Who does "get it" about skating? * France, every ski center I've been to. * lots of places in North America. |
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#2
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Ken Roberts wrote:
Look forward to hearing from other skiers with more and different experiences around Seefeld -- and different preferences. hi Ken, I just read this post and I have to say that basically, I agree with you. I've been two times in Seefeld (I have the luck to attend a congress there in winter time!) and I have to admit that the place probably suffers too much from an "hype" effect. I mean, the surroundings are great, the place is truly nice, but it seems to me a little too much oriented for and older style of tourism, and not just for x-country fanatics. You're right about distinction between classic and skatig: it seems that the former is much more appreciated, due IMO to the considerations made above about the kind of people who go there (if you have a look around it is pretty hard to find young people: usually old couples or families with kids, and this has been confirmed by several austrian too) Anyhow, some tracks are REALLY nice, the world cup loop is VEERY nice and tough, and also some of the other tracks are definetively worth of skiing sometimes. P.S. Who does "get it" about skating? * France, every ski center I've been to. * lots of places in North America. I keep on "defending" northern Italy:Veneto (Asiago), Trentino (Lavazè, Val di Fiemme), South tirol...I don't know too much the West side (near Torino) but they have nice tracks there too -- beorn "You've got to learn to crawl before you learn to walk" Aerosmith (Amazing) |
#3
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beorn wrote:
I keep on "defending" northern Italy: Veneto (Asiago) Yes I'm just now getting to enjoy the excellent skating centers in Italy. I just got to spend a day skating in Italy on the Asiago plateau, from the Campomulo start, a little north from the town of Gallio. Definitely more skating trails than the Seefeld - Leutasch networks. And more connected. I made sure to actually skated the interconnect trails between the Enego and Gallio networks -- to verify that they didn't have any "disconnects" for skating like between the different Seefeld villages. I also found the trail designs of Gallio more interesting: more rollers and curves and dips. Though I did find some long unremitting climbs or downhills (notably on the two trails inter-connecting Enego and Gallio -- which most skaters would not need to use). I did find the Asiago area kinda hilly. Leutasch seemed to have a lot more km in the flat-to-gentle range (but which I didn't find that interesting). And I suspect Leutasch comes out ahead on views of spectacular mountains. The Asiago plateau also has (at least) two other large interconnected trail networks, each with at least two distinct access points. So for all I know, there might be three Asiago trail networks which each has more km of skating than all of the Seefeld - Leutasch villages combined. Also I was talking to a German skier and he said that Seefeld is not very high in altitude -- so while Asiago may be further south, many of its trails (at least for Gallio) are higher in altitude than the Seefeld trails. Then I had a rather fun morning skiing in Antholz (Anterselva) in the Sudtirol region of Italy -- the biathlon center has a very well-designed trail network. If the Seefeld villages want to move to the front rank of fun skating, they should send a delegation to Antholz and figure out now to copy that design into part of their trail network. Ken |
#4
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Ken Roberts wrote:
Yes I'm just now getting to enjoy the excellent skating centers in Italy. good choice! ;-) I just got to spend a day skating in Italy on the Asiago plateau, from the Campomulo start, a little north from the town of Gallio. Definitely more skating trails than the Seefeld - Leutasch networks. And more connected. I made sure to actually skated the interconnect trails between the Enego and Gallio networks -- to verify that they didn't have any "disconnects" for skating like between the different Seefeld villages. yes, you can find a connection between the two "resorts", altough they belong to different ski centers. When did you do skiing? The snow was exceptional up to two weeks ago, but now it's definetively too hot and it's very slow and melting I also found the trail designs of Gallio more interesting: more rollers and curves and dips. Though I did find some long unremitting climbs or downhills (notably on the two trails inter-connecting Enego and Gallio -- which most skaters would not need to use). yes, I agree. Campomulo is one of the best places to ski, but it suffers from the shape of the mountain where it lies...this means in some circumstances you find very long climbs. I hope you tried the Marcesina (with a long tricky downhill and a section in one of the coldest italian valley!) and also the Fossetta, which pays you back all your efforts with an astonishing view from 1,900 meters (ok, evrrything in one day is "quite" hard...) I did find the Asiago area kinda hilly. Leutasch seemed to have a lot more km in the flat-to-gentle range (but which I didn't find that interesting). And I suspect Leutasch comes out ahead on views of spectacular mountains. definetively! The Asiago plateau also has (at least) two other large interconnected trail networks, each with at least two distinct access points. So for all I know, there might be three Asiago trail networks which each has more km of skating than all of the Seefeld - Leutasch villages combined. in Asiago you can find several ski centers. My favourite for training is just out of the town, at the golf course...it is where the world cup race is made, and it offers about 30kms of trails, both easy and very technical, according to what you like the most. Then, there is Gallio and Enego. But also Campolongo, on the border between Veneto and Trentino is nice! It connects to three other centers in Trentino, thus offering about 100kms of trails, and it's higher (~1,550 meters, like Campomulo) than Asiago. BTW if you plan to have buy skis, shoes, etc don't forget to pay a visit to the local shops: they have by far the cheapest prices you can find, really! I recently grabbed a new pair of salomon carbon at a truly low price :-) Also I was talking to a German skier and he said that Seefeld is not very high in altitude -- so while Asiago may be further south, many of its trails (at least for Gallio) are higher in altitude than the Seefeld trails. Seefeld is about 1,200. Asiago town is 1,000, and Campomulo is 1,500 (meters) Then I had a rather fun morning skiing in Antholz (Anterselva) in the Sudtirol region of Italy -- the biathlon center has a very well-designed trail network. If the Seefeld villages want to move to the front rank of fun skating, they should send a delegation to Antholz and figure out now to copy that design into part of their trail network. I agree, both on Antholz and Seefeld. Now you have to try passo Lavazè :-) but I'm afraid this year's already too late :-( -- beorn "You've got to learn to crawl before you learn to walk" Aerosmith (Amazing) |
#5
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beorn wrote
Now you have to try passo Lavazè Actually I did, thanks to your recommendation. Big pretty views, interesting trails, plenty of snow. Another place I'll take for skating over Seefeld. When did you do skiing? I skied in these places in Italy during the last week in March. The snow was exceptional up to two weeks ago, but now it's definetively too hot and it's very slow and melting That sounds like confusing the time of year with the time of day. Usually if there's a clear ski at night (for radiative cooling) and I get out early in the morning, there's a good (or excellent) surface for skating in April and May. Often don't even need grooming -- just skate anywhere on the firm surface early in the morning. I met an Italian skier at the Rifugio Moline and he said last year he was skiing until the beginning of May. Perhaps it's time for more European ski-skaters to read "Captain Nordic" Mark's ideas and stories about springtime off-trail skating tours in California. Ken |
#6
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Ken Roberts wrote:
Actually I did, thanks to your recommendation. Big pretty views, interesting trails, plenty of snow. Another place I'll take for skating over Seefeld. that's another of my favourites! That sounds like confusing the time of year with the time of day. Usually if there's a clear ski at night (for radiative cooling) and I get out early in the morning, there's a good (or excellent) surface for skating in April and May. Often don't even need grooming -- just skate anywhere on the firm surface early in the morning. I met an Italian skier at the Rifugio Moline and he said last year he was skiing until the beginning of May. well, I wouldn't dare try skiing there in May, for sure rocks will end scratching your nice skis :-) you're right about time of the day, I agree that if you go out at 7am you can still ski...but for less than two hours, because than it doesn't get that nice, unless you prefer "wandering with your skis" (which, btw, sometimes is sooo nice) Perhaps it's time for more European ski-skaters to read "Captain Nordic" Mark's ideas and stories about springtime off-trail skating tours in California. well, probably we're a bit too-well used :-) any suggestion on where could I find this interesting reading? -- beorn "You've got to learn to crawl before you learn to walk" Aerosmith (Amazing) |
#7
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Maybe I should repost my images from Seefeld and Leutasch :
http://www.turrennklubben.no/tur_seefeld2005.htm If there are better places than Seefeld I'm interested. Seefeld was veeery well groomed. I've been to Lavaze but pick Seefeld. Seefeld has slightly better and more interesting tracks and after skiing there is alot more to do in Seefeld. Anterselva is yet to be testet for me. It is true that Seefeld have more older skiers around. Except the last two days before Ganghoferlauf. Other than that you can often get the feeling of beeing the best skier around and build up selfconfidence:-) Leutasch is very flat but i don't like to cross car-roads every now and then. The region is more classic minded, but still very good for skating. many places in Norway have surprisingly bad/tiny conditions for skating. Maybe Seefeld is one of the biggest xc resorts because Oslo is not one resort that advertise as ONE place. But Oslo and nordmarka is quite big. And it's all free for XC. Next year is maybe Jura for me. I think Robert "advertised" for that place before. Chapelle des Bois and all of Transjurassienne track. Maybe Robert could refresh my memory on what places around Les Rousses that were so great. Ken Roberts wrote: I had fun skiing a day at Seefeld and a day at neighboring Leutasch -- northwest from Innsbruck near the border with Germany. But it didn't strike me as the best place in Europe. I liked Leutasch better: more spectacular mountains in close view from the ski trails, quieter and more remote, more opportunities for more fun skating, much gentler. I liked that Seefeld - Leutasch is in reasonable driving range of other fun kinds of skiing (like one morning I drove south to the Stubai mountains for downhill and backcountry skiing), and valley non-skiing things (like walking around the city of Innsbruck). Some German automobile club voted Seefeld the best for cross-country skiing. The only interpretation I can put on this result is: Most of those voters never skied the best places in France (or North America), and most of them like Classic more than Skating. For me La Feclaz near Chambery in France gets it right, for its rhythm of rolling ups and downs. Les Saisies shows how to have as much hill-climbing as Seefeld, but mix in more fun downhills along the way, and somehow make it all more interesting than Seefeld. Maybe I would have found this on the Classic trails at Seefeld -- or maybe it's Leutasch that's working on delivering the fun for skaters: I found a new trail there called Waldloipe which felt like a good start toward a higher level of fun. |
#9
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#10
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Terje Mathisen wrote
I have noticed that several places here in Norway seems to have heard the plea: "More skating trails!" Norway is another country that ought to send a delegation to the Antholz (Anterselva) biathlon center with the question: How can we duplicate this back home? I notice that the better cross-country skiing centers in France are starting to charge more _money_ for a single-day ski pass. At least one is over 8 Euros -- I paid it and had a delightful skiing experience. Charge more money and _deliver_ a substantially better skiing experience (grooming + fun trail design) for truly serious skiers. And offer discounts to families and school groups who come for a snow day. (Actually that's 8 Euros is substantially less than what some good XC ski centers in the US charge for a single-day ski pass) Ken |
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