A Snow and ski forum. SkiBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » SkiBanter forum » Skiing Newsgroups » Nordic Skiing
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

How Should the U S Fix Their Nordic Ski Team?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old February 21st 06, 12:39 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How Should the U S Fix Their Nordic Ski Team?

It seems to me that the tried and true method of developing skiers in
North America and having them race in North America is not working... I
mean, France beat us!

How do we fix the problem?

Some ideas;

1) Have our athletes stay, train and race in Europe during the ski
season. If this is too much of a burden for our athletes, then they
probably aren't committed to being the best anyway. Then, have the
National Championships in March when they come home from Europe.
Nationals should set the team for the following year except for those
who are in the Red Group and automatically qualify for expenses paid
etc.

2) Identify athletes who have no chance of placing better than 50th,
even 40th and leave them home. We can't waste valuable monetary
resources on skiers who just don't have it.

3) Focus on Sprint racing and Marathons. France had a guy named Herve
Balland who would ski Worldloppets and then join the French Team to ski
the 50K at the Olympics and World Championships. He won medals... A
skier like Carl Swenson fits that mold. Certain skiers would fit that
category. Sprinters like Christian Zorzi have proven very effective at
going 10K in a Relay. Lets develop speed first. Skiers like Andy Newell
and Torin Koos should ski everything up to 10K in distance.

4) Identify skiers with huge talent like Kris Freeman and devote those
limited resources to developing them.

Any comments or ideas?

J Tegeder
"Keep training, lycra never lies!" JT

  #2  
Old February 21st 06, 01:19 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:

It seems to me that the tried and true method of developing skiers in
North America and having them race in North America is not working...
I mean, France beat us!


You still picking on France? France had four in the top 20 at Davos
and Otepaeae in classical and three in freestyle in Nove Mesto,
including winner Vittoz and fifth place, Emmanuel Jonnier.

Agree that the back and forth to Europe is a killer and that training
and competition in Europe is generally more valuable for at least
learning what it takes to be at the top and how to get there. Tough
life, tho, and not everyone is made for it. Remember, Becky Scott was
50th before she was on the podium. The important thing is that there's
a difference between being 50 of 54 vs. 50 of 75.

Gene



How do we fix the problem?

Some ideas;

1) Have our athletes stay, train and race in Europe during the ski
season. If this is too much of a burden for our athletes, then they
probably aren't committed to being the best anyway. Then, have the
National Championships in March when they come home from Europe.
Nationals should set the team for the following year except for those
who are in the Red Group and automatically qualify for expenses paid
etc.

2) Identify athletes who have no chance of placing better than 50th,
even 40th and leave them home. We can't waste valuable monetary
resources on skiers who just don't have it.

3) Focus on Sprint racing and Marathons. France had a guy named Herve
Balland who would ski Worldloppets and then join the French Team to
ski the 50K at the Olympics and World Championships. He won medals...
A skier like Carl Swenson fits that mold. Certain skiers would fit
that category. Sprinters like Christian Zorzi have proven very
effective at going 10K in a Relay. Lets develop speed first. Skiers
like Andy Newell and Torin Koos should ski everything up to 10K in
distance.

4) Identify skiers with huge talent like Kris Freeman and devote those
limited resources to developing them.

Any comments or ideas?

J Tegeder
"Keep training, lycra never lies!" JT

  #3  
Old February 21st 06, 03:25 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Touche. France has better skiers than traditional nordic powers like
Finland.
Scott placed no better than the 40's at Nagano.

  #4  
Old February 21st 06, 11:40 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

No, there isn't much difference between being 50th out of 54 or 50th
out of 75. Both results are bad either way you slice it. Those between
50 and 75 aren't Norwegians, Swedes, Finns, Germans, Italians etc.
They're Croatians, Slovenians, Turkish and so on. In other words,
nations with far less monetary resources than we have. We've had a
couple of decades of skiers placing in the 50s and a couple of decades
of sending skiers to the Olympoics or World Championships that have no
business being there. We can't waste resources on skiers like that. In
the U S, we have more distractions than in Canada. Football, Baseball,
Basketball and Hockey are big draws in the U S. Canada has Hockey.

How about the idea of focusing on speed?

J Tegeder
"Keep training, lycra never lies!" JT

  #6  
Old February 25th 06, 04:26 AM
doogiski doogiski is offline
Senior Member
 
First recorded activity by SkiBanter: Sep 2005
Posts: 152
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by
No, there isn't much difference between being 50th out of 54 or 50th
out of 75. Both results are bad either way you slice it. Those between
50 and 75 aren't Norwegians, Swedes, Finns, Germans, Italians etc.
They're Croatians, Slovenians, Turkish and so on. In other words,
nations with far less monetary resources than we have. We've had a
couple of decades of skiers placing in the 50s and a couple of decades
of sending skiers to the Olympoics or World Championships that have no
business being there. We can't waste resources on skiers like that. In
the U S, we have more distractions than in Canada. Football, Baseball,
Basketball and Hockey are big draws in the U S. Canada has Hockey.

How about the idea of focusing on speed?

J Tegeder
"Keep training, lycra never lies!" JT
You also have to remember that Canada has 1/10th the population that the USA has. So it should even out shouldn't it? Yes Canada does has hockey, but who was the basketball player to win the MVP last year in the NBA...right it was a Canadian. You can't forget about the stereotypical sport of Canada...curling. So even though lots of kids want to grow up to play in the NHL. There are still kids that want to play other sports. Cross-country skiing is still getting popular in Canada like the US, but it is no Sweden, Norway, or Finland.
Also, an excellent example to contradict your statement is about Chandra Crawford. In the pursuit she came 60th out of 64! That's horrible according to you and she "has no business being there", yet a mere 10 days later she wins the gold medal in the sprints. She even was beaten by athletes from such ski power houses such as China, Romania, Korea, Lithuania, Belarus, and even the USA!!! The average skier peaks in their late 20's. We have to allow the athletes to gain experience and if they are restricted to only national races how can they prepare for the World Cup.? The odds of the US producing a Petter Northug is very slim. Therefore you must have them race in the Olympics and World Cups. Sure some might find the results embarassing but it will be worth it in the long run. Look no further than Beckie's and Sara's results in Nagano. Need I say more?
Cheers,
Adam
Smithers,BC

Last edited by doogiski : February 25th 06 at 04:45 AM.
  #7  
Old February 26th 06, 02:24 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I don't like this whole idea of limiting ourselves. the skiing
community is becoming cynical because they have too many preconceived
notions. USST officials said they wanted the points system to
eliminate subjectivity, i think that's weak. there's such a thing as
intuition, coaches rely on it all the time. Sure, the point's system
is precise, but intuition is also precise. They are taking the easy
way out, trying too hard to impose order on what should be an organic,
growing process. Every coach knows you can be systematic, but at the
same time you have to go with your feelings. You build the system as
you go.
Dave Inferra, Boulder

  #8  
Old February 21st 06, 03:55 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article .com,
wrote:

It seems to me that the tried and true method of developing skiers in
North America and having them race in North America is not working... I
mean, France beat us!


France has some strong skiers, both in cross country and in biathlon.

How do we fix the problem?

Some ideas;

1) Have our athletes stay, train and race in Europe during the ski
season.


That's probably the surest way for athletes to reach the top levels
of the sport -- but it is quite hard, so it is easy to see why
comparatively few American skiers do so.

If this is too much of a burden for our athletes, then they
probably aren't committed to being the best anyway.


Most probably have lives outside skiing -- educational plans,
careers, relationships, etc. -- that make this difficult. Unless a
skier really reaches the top of the sport, he or she probably has fewer
career and educational options waiting in North America the longer he or
she continues racing and training in Europe. I suspect that European
skiers probably find it easier, for obvious reasons, to integrate the
rest of their lives with their sport.

Then, have the
National Championships in March when they come home from Europe.
Nationals should set the team for the following year except for those
who are in the Red Group and automatically qualify for expenses paid
etc.

2) Identify athletes who have no chance of placing better than 50th,
even 40th and leave them home.


That's pretty Draconian -- for example, Beckie Scott used to be that
far back in the pack, and it is not so evident (except in hindsight)
which of the skiers at that level might eventually be on the podium.

We can't waste valuable monetary
resources on skiers who just don't have it.


It's so hard, though, to see who "just doesn't have it." I have
heard stories from coaches in many different sports who thought that an
athlete was hopeless at some stage of his or her development, only to
see that athlete eventually develop into a great champion. Conversely,
some gifted prodigies burn out and never realize what appeared to
everyone to be obvious potential.

3) Focus on Sprint racing and Marathons. France had a guy named Herve
Balland who would ski Worldloppets and then join the French Team to ski
the 50K at the Olympics and World Championships. He won medals... A
skier like Carl Swenson fits that mold. Certain skiers would fit that
category. Sprinters like Christian Zorzi have proven very effective at
going 10K in a Relay. Lets develop speed first. Skiers like Andy Newell
and Torin Koos should ski everything up to 10K in distance.

4) Identify skiers with huge talent like Kris Freeman and devote those
limited resources to developing them.

Any comments or ideas?

J Tegeder
"Keep training, lycra never lies!" JT

  #9  
Old February 21st 06, 05:04 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I believe you are looking at the wrong end of the problem.

All your suggestions deal with the existing elite racers and how to improve
their performance. These are short term solutions since eventually these
athletes will retire and you haven't developed a system to replace them.

In my opinion, the key to long term success is to start with programs that
recruit lots of very young children, get them involved in the pure enjoyment
of the sport and perfect their technique. From that point there should be a
progression of development from fun, to fun racing, to fun training, to
serious racing, to serious training and so on until you have successful
elite racers and a stream of replacements following them. At all stages
skiers must have competent coaching with coaches who have received adequate
training for the level of skiers they are working with. Skiers should be
encouraged to participate to their level of ability and commitment. If they
don't progress to the elite level they should be encouraged to stay in the
system as recreational skiers or racers and ideally to help with coaching
and pass on the skills that they have learned.

It takes a community to produce elite competitors. Very few of them spring
fully developed out of nowhere.

Scott

wrote in message
oups.com...
It seems to me that the tried and true method of developing skiers in
North America and having them race in North America is not working... I
mean, France beat us!

How do we fix the problem?

Some ideas;

1) Have our athletes stay, train and race in Europe during the ski
season. If this is too much of a burden for our athletes, then they
probably aren't committed to being the best anyway. Then, have the
National Championships in March when they come home from Europe.
Nationals should set the team for the following year except for those
who are in the Red Group and automatically qualify for expenses paid
etc.

2) Identify athletes who have no chance of placing better than 50th,
even 40th and leave them home. We can't waste valuable monetary
resources on skiers who just don't have it.

3) Focus on Sprint racing and Marathons. France had a guy named Herve
Balland who would ski Worldloppets and then join the French Team to ski
the 50K at the Olympics and World Championships. He won medals... A
skier like Carl Swenson fits that mold. Certain skiers would fit that
category. Sprinters like Christian Zorzi have proven very effective at
going 10K in a Relay. Lets develop speed first. Skiers like Andy Newell
and Torin Koos should ski everything up to 10K in distance.

4) Identify skiers with huge talent like Kris Freeman and devote those
limited resources to developing them.

Any comments or ideas?

J Tegeder
"Keep training, lycra never lies!" JT



  #10  
Old February 21st 06, 10:05 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Scott Elliot wrote:
I believe you are looking at the wrong end of the problem.

All your suggestions deal with the existing elite racers and how to improve
their performance. These are short term solutions since eventually these
athletes will retire and you haven't developed a system to replace them.

In my opinion, the key to long term success is to start with programs that
recruit lots of very young children, get them involved in the pure enjoyment
of the sport and perfect their technique. From that point there should be a
progression of development from fun, to fun racing, to fun training, to
serious racing, to serious training and so on until you have successful
elite racers and a stream of replacements following them. At all stages
skiers must have competent coaching with coaches who have received adequate
training for the level of skiers they are working with. Skiers should be
encouraged to participate to their level of ability and commitment. If they
don't progress to the elite level they should be encouraged to stay in the
system as recreational skiers or racers and ideally to help with coaching
and pass on the skills that they have learned.

It takes a community to produce elite competitors. Very few of them spring
fully developed out of nowhere.

Scott



I agree. Last Wednsday I went to a local club race. There are at least
5 other ski clubs in the area, with a population of about 50,000. There
were at least 25 kids there. The other clubs are the same. With a
little creative extrapolation, that means that here in Norway on
Wednesdays which are popular for club races there are 10,000 kids doing
a ski race. How many kids participated in an XC race in the US last
week?

Even if my estimate is off by an order of magnitude, it still shows the
huge number of kids to tap into. That's the secret. Once you get the
raw material, the rest is almost easy!

Joseph

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The "Official" Unofficial New York State Masters Nordic Team Championships Bob Maswick Nordic Skiing 1 October 26th 04 06:36 PM
RFC - The Nordic Skiing Project the Nordic Skiing Project Nordic Skiing 2 September 24th 04 05:50 PM
New Zealand with the USST/Subaru Factory Team Nathan Schultz Nordic Skiing 4 July 16th 04 01:46 AM
Vordenberg & US Ski Team Clinic @ Gear West p.bowen Nordic Skiing 1 July 5th 04 07:41 PM
Mounting alpine bindings Terry Hill Alpine Skiing 26 December 6th 03 06:51 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SkiBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.