Loppet

[ David Dermott ]

I think there are running (ie foot) races called "lopp(et)" in
Sweden, eg - Lidingöloppet - a running race in Stockholm.

Oh, right.

Swedish athletes also use the word "motions-lopp" lit.
"exercise-race". It's a race where there is no ranking of finishing
times- everybody competes just to finish. I'm more familiar with it as a
cycling term, eg in the 300 km bicycle event "Vätternrundan". But I'm
sure I've seen "motionslopp" used for skiing, skating, etc. races. I
think Norwegians also use the word "mosjonsløp".

We use "løp" more narrowly, (mostly) for things where you actually
run. On skis (both XC and downhill) it's "renn", bicycle "ritt". Oh,
for ice skating it's "løp" too, but specifically "skøyteløp". The only
more general term I can think of off the top of my head is
"konkurranse", which has more or less the exact same meaning as en.
"competition".


Martin
--
"An ideal world is left as an exercise to the reader."
-Paul Graham, On Lisp

Martin Thornquist wrote:

We use "l=F8p" more narrowly, (mostly) for things where you actually
run. On skis (both XC and downhill) it's "renn", bicycle "ritt".=20

How does rennet refer to renn (like Galdhopiggrennet)? Just curious ... :=
-)

Greetings,

Ulrich

PS. How are snow conditions in Norway actually? I'm looking - a bit -=20
anxiously the skiinfo webcams (christmas/new year i'll be in=20
Gaustablikk) ...
--=20
reply to: uhausmannATbluemailDOTch

[ Ulrich Hausmann ]

How does rennet refer to renn (like Galdhopiggrennet)? Just curious ... :-)

"-et" is definite (neutral gender) form, like der Lauf vs. ein Lauf in
German, or the vs. a in English. Male form is "-en", feminine either
"-en" or "-a" depending on dialect. (Bokmål has only neutral and
common gender, while nynorsk and some of the dialects has all three of
neutral, male and female.)

Further lectures in Norwegian grammar available on request. :-)

PS. How are snow conditions in Norway actually? I'm looking - a bit -
anxiously the skiinfo webcams (christmas/new year i'll be in
Gaustablikk) ...

Not that good, or rather, not too far from average. AFAIK it's been
cold enough to make an ok amount of snow in most resorts, but there's
not too much of the wild variety. It's been very warm in Oslo the
past couple of weeks, I'm not sure how it's been in the mountains (you
can see that as well as I on Skiinfo). I'm guessing the slopes will be
fine, but you might want to take rock skis for venturing off the
beaten track. Above the treeline Norway is mostly pretty rocky and
needs a bit of snow to be skiable.

Still time to hope for massive amounts of powder, though. :-)


Martin
--
"An ideal world is left as an exercise to the reader."
-Paul Graham, On Lisp

Martin Thornquist wrote:

Thanks for the Norvegian lesson. Nynorsk is that language they
introduced after independency in early '900? An Bookmal the
"traditional" Norvegian?

Still time to hope for massive amounts of powder, though. :-)

Yep. In hope in something like last year. Also, in the Alps (northern
face) after the strong snow falls in early octobre, there is nearly no
snow anymore. While, this year, the southern face is lucky; once at
least Airolo in Ticino, this year has more snow than Andermatt (south
face of Gotthard massive vs. north face of Gotthard massive).

Personally, i had some very nice ski days near Torino (Sauze d' Oulx).
You could even ski off pist among the larchs ;-))

Greetings,

Ulrich
--
reply to: uhausmannATbluemailDOTch

[ Ulrich Hausmann ]

Thanks for the Norvegian lesson. Nynorsk is that language they
introduced after independency in early '900?

Late 1800 and early 1900 (Norway gained more and more independence
through the 1800s, up until the indepence in 1905). A man named Ivar
Aasen from Vinje in Telemark travelled around gathering dialects,
mostly on the West coast, and used those he thought least "tainted" by
Danish to construct nynorsk. Today it's used as the main written
language by somewhat less than 10% og the population, but everyone
learns it in school (the Norwegian lectures are split into "main
dialect" and "side dialect" -- those who has bokmål as "main dialect"
has nynorsk as "side dialect" and vice versa).

An Bookmal the "traditional" Norvegian?

Call bokmål traditional and you will be hounded by the nynorsk folk
(or at least discussed to exasperation . Bokmål is what evolved in
the Oslo area under heavy influence from Danish. Norway got its first
university in 1811, before that all higher education happened in
Copenhagen, and naturally those educated there brought back a
Danish-influenced language. This Danish influence is what Ivar Aasen
wanted to get rid of, he rather wanted a language naturally evolved
from old Norse (more or less what they talk on Iceland to this day)
with few outside influences.

Norwegian language evolution is tightly coupled to, and tells a lot
about, Norwegian history and nationalism through the times. Both the
natural evolution, and the conscious efforts to change the language in
the interest of language building.

Yep. In hope in something like last year. Also, in the Alps (northern
face) after the strong snow falls in early octobre, there is nearly no
snow anymore. While, this year, the southern face is lucky; once at
least Airolo in Ticino, this year has more snow than Andermatt (south
face of Gotthard massive vs. north face of Gotthard massive).

I hear the rivers of southern France are overflowing because of heavy
rain, did any of that reach the Alps?


Martin
--
"An ideal world is left as an exercise to the reader."
-Paul Graham, On Lisp

Martin Thornquist wrote:

[ Ulrich Hausmann ]
=20
Hi Martin,

Thanks for all that explanations. For me, it'll be difficult, to capture =

the differences. I'm able to distinguish Danish from Swedish, and=20
Swedish from Norvegian (at least let's say what they speak in Trondheim=20
and what in =D6stersund :-) - but understand??? Ok, once you got a little=
=20
bit deeper into, you understand, many things work similar like in=20
German. But speaking, pronouncing seems very difficult to me. Moreover,=20
all Scandinavians are marvellous in foreign languages. You cannot not be =

ashamed!

Late 1800 and early 1900 (Norway gained more and more independence
through the 1800s, up until the indepence in 1905). A man named Ivar
Aasen from Vinje in Telemark travelled around gathering dialects,
mostly on the West coast, and used those he thought least "tainted" by
Danish to construct nynorsk.=20

Vinje, that's close to where i'm staying to go, right? (Rauland, Haukeli?=
).

=20
An Bookmal the "traditional" Norvegian?
=20
=20
Call bokm=E5l traditional and you will be hounded by the nynorsk folk
(or at least discussed to exasperation .=20

Ok, i'll be cautious ;-))


I hear the rivers of southern France are overflowing because of heavy
rain, did any of that reach the Alps?

I think the higher parts of the Pyrenees got lots of snow.

In the Alps, this winter, i don't think it's effect of the changing of=20
climate but of a - not so rare - metereological situation. There is=20
constantely a deep pressure area of the gulf of Genova which pushes to=20
the southern Alps. There, it's raining in the lower parts and snowing in =

the higher parts. Then, the dry air passes the crest of the Alps and=20
falls down. But since dry air is changing faster temperature (1=B0 per=20
100m for dry, 0,5=B0 for wet air) it's getting very warm on the norther=20
side. We call that F=F6hn. Now, it's about nearly 3 weeks, on the norther=
n=20
side we've that weather and nearly all the nice octobre snow has gone.

Best wishes,

Ulrich

--=20
reply to: uhausmannATbluemailDOTch

[ Ulrich Hausmann ]

Thanks for all that explanations. For me, it'll be difficult, to
capture the differences. I'm able to distinguish Danish from Swedish,
and Swedish from Norvegian (at least let's say what they speak in
Trondheim and what in Östersund :-) - but understand??? Ok, once you
got a little bit deeper into, you understand, many things work similar
like in German. But speaking, pronouncing seems very difficult to me.
Moreover, all Scandinavians are marvellous in foreign languages. You
cannot not be ashamed!

I know an English guy here, came last spring to do his ph.d. He's
complaining he doesn't get to learn Norwegian as everyone speaks so
good English. :-)

Even friends of mine who didn't have German in school says they
understand quite a bit. I did learn German, so I understand most (as
long as the dialect is pretty standard, I don't understand a word when
a Swiss friend talks Swiss German). I've never used it much though, so
Ich kann nicht so viel sprechen.

During most of the time after the Viking age, a large part of the
foreign (outside of Scandinavia) input came through German-speaking
areas. Germany was the natural place to go for many both artists and
others (my grandfather was educated as dentist in Lübeck), and Bergen
was one of the Hansa cities. It's just during the last half century
English has dominated.

Vinje, that's close to where i'm staying to go, right? (Rauland, Haukeli?).

Same general area, at least. I don't know upper Telemark very well.
Near on the map doesn't neccessarily mean near in driving time though,
if it's in a different valley system.

To get somewhat nearer on-topic, clear skies and colder here today,
the ground has frozen solid over the night. Here's to hoping it stays
cold and snows soon!


Martin
--
"An ideal world is left as an exercise to the reader."
-Paul Graham, On Lisp