& Backcountry ski-board-climb-hike entrance controls..any ? 5/8/06

In article ,
David Blanchard wrote:
Flagstaff, AZ
Nice place in many ways.

Yes. :-)

Last time there was a couple summers back.
It was high 80s when the lower plains were 110F.
We flew in from CA, SF-Bishop- NLV- Page over the Winslow crater
(quite worth it)- Flagstaff and was the last plane to land before
an emergency which had to land on an adjacent road (all survived).
Friends live there with the USGS.

Remote in other ways.

Yes :-(

Basics can be bought locally.
Anything else must be ordered.
Skis, boots, poles, snow...

Well, you are a few hours from Phoenix.
Monument Valley is a few hours away.


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In article ,
Kurt Knisely wrote:

Even twenty years ago it appeared that the top of the Waterline road was
hit fairly often. No trees the

http://www.allwest.net/~kurt/images/...dasfingers.jpg

Some of those images on the KPAC page though do show the runout going up one
side of the canyon, crossing, and up the other. Lots of mature trees taken out.
Yes, very impressive:

http://www.kachinapeaks.org/photo_ga...p/PICT0135.jpg

More shots:

http://www.kachinapeaks.org/photo_guide.html

Maybe someday they'll get the Abineau trail open again?

Thanks for the additional photo links. It does appear that runouts have
occurred often but this last one was more severe than previous runs.

Reopen? That would require that they get some work done on the trail and
with staff shortages...I'm not hopeful. There is a bypass trail that has
materialized since last year from the heavy traffic that goes up that
way.

-db-

(David Blanchard) wrote in
:

In article ,
Kurt Knisely wrote:

Even twenty years ago it appeared that the top of the Waterline road
was hit fairly often. No trees the

http://www.allwest.net/~kurt/images/...dasfingers.jpg

....

Maybe someday they'll get the Abineau trail open again?


Thanks for the additional photo links. It does appear that runouts
have occurred often but this last one was more severe than previous
runs.

I don't doubt you one bit from those KPAC images. If our resident
retired "Forester" were here he could tell us the approximate age of
those downed trees. With the slow growth of trees in the SW, I'd guess
100-200 years old? A rare slide indeed.

A bad photo/scan from '87 or '88. This one is shooting more North toward
the Grand Canyon and you can see the road on the right and the
"trimline" (trees/no trees). I guess they no doubt cleared some trees
when they put in the culvert for the water line as well?

http://www.allwest.net/~kurt/images/abineau/gc.jpg



Reopen? That would require that they get some work done on the trail
and with staff shortages...I'm not hopeful. There is a bypass trail
that has materialized since last year from the heavy traffic that goes
up that way.

A few horses and chainsaws (labor) would take care of that in a week. It
would be nice if the trail did cross the runout in a few places. Yep,
probably never happen.

Storms a comin' this weekend, maybe some freshies in N. Oootah? 'Need to
reconnoiter where the rocks are before they get covered.

-K

Kurt Knisely wrote:
If our resident
retired "Forester" were here he could tell us the approximate age of
those downed trees. With the slow growth of trees in the SW, I'd guess
100-200 years old?

There is one helluva mix of tree ages there but what looks prevalent
looks to be 40 to 60 years, maybe 80 with your slow growing conditions
you pointed out. The larger ones look to be twice that age making them
80 to 120 years and with the slow growing conditions 160.
I saw some of the same type of mix about 7 years ago below Andrews
Pass. It had come down off the side of Ottis taking out younger trees
and trees that looked to be twice the age. The older ones looked to be
clusters or lone survivors of the last slide growing a bit scattered
about on the steep slope.
In the slide you are talking about, it looks like the slide was a
bit bigger than the last and did a few more swoop-dee-doos going up the
sides further into the older stands of trees.

A rare slide indeed.

I get a bit unnerved when traveling in the younger trees if there
are older ones all along the sides but...

Storms a comin' this weekend, maybe some freshies in N. Oootah? 'Need to
reconnoiter where the rocks are before they get covered.

I'll be camping in the foothills and hoping for fair weather...

Ed Huesers
Http://www.grandshelters.com

Ed Huesers wrote in
:

Kurt Knisely wrote:
If our resident
retired "Forester" were here he could tell us the approximate age of
those downed trees. With the slow growth of trees in the SW, I'd
guess 100-200 years old?

There is one helluva mix of tree ages there but what looks
prevalent
looks to be 40 to 60 years, maybe 80 with your slow growing conditions
you pointed out. The larger ones look to be twice that age making them
80 to 120 years and with the slow growing conditions 160.

Yea, I was mostly looking at the taller trees along the trimline. Many
of the smaller ones up near the end of the Waterline Road are flagged as well:

http://www.kachinapeaks.org/photo_ga...s/pop/ab23.jpg


A rare slide indeed.

I get a bit unnerved when traveling in the younger trees if there
are older ones all along the sides but...

Or aspens with older pines along the edges.


Storms a comin' this weekend, maybe some freshies in N. Oootah?
'Need to reconnoiter where the rocks are before they get covered.

I'll be camping in the foothills and hoping for fair weather...

It always snows in CO over Memorial Day Weeekend :-)

-K

Ed Huesers wrote:
I get a bit unnerved when traveling in the younger trees if there
are older ones all along the sides but...

Kurt Knisely wrote:
Or aspens with older pines along the edges.

Those, I avoid if at all possible.
Biggest aspens I ever saw was up the road from Ogdxn, S.B. Scattered
about and lovely powder in them. That was alpine skiing many years ago.

I'll be camping in the foothills and hoping for fair weather...

It always snows in CO over Memorial Day Weeekend :-)

Heh, yeah, that's what they say. It keeps the tourists away.
It did snow lightly Sunday night in the high peaks more than ten
miles west of where I camped.
Had some excitement though. There was a fire over the north end of
the mountain I was camping on. I was on the south end a little over a
mile and a half from the fire. A helicopter was making water dumps every
three minutes and getting it from a small lake a couple miles west of
me. I was able to watch him flying back and forth but the pickup and
dump were out of sight.
The fire was Sat. and friends came up Sunday and told me the fire
was out. Good thing too as the winds were howling Sunday night.

Ed Huesers
Http://www.grandshelters.com

Ed Huesers wrote in
:

Ed Huesers wrote:
....
Biggest aspens I ever saw was up the road from Ogdxn, S.B.
Scattered
about and lovely powder in them. That was alpine skiing many years
ago.

I prefer the mature pines, usually the aspens are too close together.
They're all one plant, right?


It always snows in CO over Memorial Day Weeekend :-)

Heh, yeah, that's what they say. It keeps the tourists away.
It did snow lightly Sunday night in the high peaks more than ten
miles west of where I camped.

It was odd, there was more snow at my place than 3000 vft. above us,
(storm must have missed the High Uintas)? Just a dusting up the
highway, but we made the best of it. I skied on the light gear and
leathers while the neighbors snowshoed (dang climbers...). Of course
that meant some scrambling up mixed snow/rock routes w/ the skis on my
pack, but they couldn't shoe up it either. Still ended up w/ a ski down
a different route though.

There's one difference between climbers and skiers. When you look at a
nice pic of a snow covered mountain are you looking for the best
continuous line to ski down the mountain or what rock face you'd climb
(and then rap off)? Dang climbers...something inherently wrong w/ those
folks :-)

Had some excitement though. There was a fire over the north end of
the mountain I was camping on. I was on the south end a little over a
mile and a half from the fire.

A little too close to the fire for my comfort.

-K

There's one difference between climbers and skiers. When you look at a
nice pic of a snow covered mountain are you looking for the best
continuous line to ski down the mountain or what rock face you'd climb
(and then rap off)? Dang climbers...something inherently wrong w/ those
folks :-)

Hard to ski exposed ridges. Better to climb them.


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(Hal Murray) wrote in
:


There's one difference between climbers and skiers. When you look at a
nice pic of a snow covered mountain are you looking for the best
continuous line to ski down the mountain or what rock face you'd climb
(and then rap off)? Dang climbers...something inherently wrong w/ those
folks :-)

Hard to ski exposed ridges. Better to climb them.



Yes, skis on pack for that. It helps keep you out of trouble as well. We
sympathetically triggered one on this ridge that went over a cliff.

http://hyperion.usc.edu/~jrredho/Uta...3/p1040026.jpg

-K

In article ,
Elder Kurt Knisely wrote:
I prefer the mature pines, usually the aspens are too close together.
They're all one plant, right?

Bio/botanical trolling, eh?

I skied
while the neighbors snowshoed (dang climbers...).

Americans too lazy to learn to ski. Europeans ski more.

There's one difference between climbers and skiers. When you look at a
nice pic of a snow covered mountain are you looking for the best
continuous line to ski down the mountain or what rock face you'd climb
(and then rap off)? Dang climbers...something inherently wrong w/ those
folks :-)

Is the rock facing S or north?

Bring cavers (troll for Galen in r.b., as if there's lots of non-ater
skiing in FL).

Frankly, most of the climbers I know prefer not to rap for the
complications it entails. If rapping it is, make it minimal.

To me it's all part of the same activity. I'd asked about the avalanche
hazard first.

"Skiing ends about 50 degrees. Ice climbing starts about 45 degrees.
In between is very interesting ..." --Hooman Aprin

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