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Mount Bindings



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 13th 03, 08:45 PM
Schmoe
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Default Mount Bindings

I'm new to the group and hope the flames will be kept to a minimum. My 6
year old was skiing on a pair of tiny Elan's which have relatively new and
in excellent shape Salomon 300 bindings. I managed to get a great deal on a
new set of K2 Magic from a Sports Authority ($50) and want to use the 300
bindings on these K2's but with the exact same boots. My son's weight has
not changed much since last season.

This binding simply use 4 screws in the back and 3 in the front. Can I mount
these bindings with the exact same measurements (distance between front
binding and back binding) from the old ski but percentage out for the
correct location on the new skis (110's)? The local shops want $50 just to
mount bindings because I didn't buy the boots or skis there. I know how to
adjust bindings for the additional weight and skill level and check for
motion etc... but need to know the specifics of drilling (measured depth)
and glue (what kind?).

Any help is appreciate. Please save the "pay the $50" flames. I'd like to
know if this is as simple as it looks.

Cheers


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  #2  
Old November 13th 03, 08:50 PM
Chester Bullock
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Default Mount Bindings

Schmoe wrote:

I'm new to the group and hope the flames will be kept to a minimum. My 6
year old was skiing on a pair of tiny Elan's which have relatively new and
in excellent shape Salomon 300 bindings. I managed to get a great deal on a
new set of K2 Magic from a Sports Authority ($50) and want to use the 300
bindings on these K2's but with the exact same boots. My son's weight has
not changed much since last season.

This binding simply use 4 screws in the back and 3 in the front. Can I mount
these bindings with the exact same measurements (distance between front
binding and back binding) from the old ski but percentage out for the
correct location on the new skis (110's)? The local shops want $50 just to
mount bindings because I didn't buy the boots or skis there. I know how to
adjust bindings for the additional weight and skill level and check for
motion etc... but need to know the specifics of drilling (measured depth)
and glue (what kind?).

Any help is appreciate. Please save the "pay the $50" flames. I'd like to
know if this is as simple as it looks.

Cheers



To be quite honest, I do all of the work on my skis myself - except for
mounting bindings. In reality it may be a simple process, but I feel
safer knowing that someone with experience has mounted them for me.

--
Chester Bullock,
Ethical, custom website hosting, design and programming
Tenxible Solutions,
http://www.tenxible.com
Web Based Autoresponder and DRIP system, http://www.toolsre.com
AIM: tenxible YahooIM: ccb247

  #3  
Old November 13th 03, 09:06 PM
Walt
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Default Mount Bindings

Schmoe wrote:

I'm new to the group and hope the flames will be kept to a minimum. My 6
year old was skiing on a pair of tiny Elan's which have relatively new and
in excellent shape Salomon 300 bindings. I managed to get a great deal on a
new set of K2 Magic from a Sports Authority ($50) and want to use the 300
bindings on these K2's but with the exact same boots. My son's weight has
not changed much since last season.

This binding simply use 4 screws in the back and 3 in the front. Can I mount
these bindings with the exact same measurements (distance between front
binding and back binding) from the old ski but percentage out for the
correct location on the new skis (110's)? The local shops want $50 just to
mount bindings because I didn't buy the boots or skis there. I know how to
adjust bindings for the additional weight and skill level and check for
motion etc... but need to know the specifics of drilling (measured depth)
and glue (what kind?).

Any help is appreciate. Please save the "pay the $50" flames. I'd like to
know if this is as simple as it looks.


This is not a flame, but the standard advice is to have this work done
by a qualified professional. It's not rocket science, but since you
don't have access to the measurement tools that allow you to verify that
it's been done right, its not a good idea to do it yourself.

If you shop around you should be able to find a place to mount them for
less than $50.

--
//-Walt
//
// The Volkl Conspiracy
  #4  
Old November 13th 03, 09:26 PM
lal_truckee
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Default Mount Bindings

Schmoe wrote:

I'm new to the group and hope the flames will be kept to a minimum. My 6
year old was skiing on a pair of tiny Elan's which have relatively new and
in excellent shape Salomon 300 bindings. I managed to get a great deal on a
new set of K2 Magic from a Sports Authority ($50) and want to use the 300
bindings on these K2's but with the exact same boots. My son's weight has
not changed much since last season.

This binding simply use 4 screws in the back and 3 in the front. Can I mount
these bindings with the exact same measurements (distance between front
binding and back binding) from the old ski but percentage out for the
correct location on the new skis (110's)? The local shops want $50 just to
mount bindings because I didn't buy the boots or skis there. I know how to
adjust bindings for the additional weight and skill level and check for
motion etc... but need to know the specifics of drilling (measured depth)
and glue (what kind?).

Any help is appreciate. Please save the "pay the $50" flames. I'd like to
know if this is as simple as it looks.


You need to know several things
Where should the boot be on the new skis? Some skiboots don't even have
the center mark, so right away you're up against dealing with ski
cord-length and boot toe position issues - a whole art unto itself.
Assuming the boots and the skis have center marks, you position the
boots at the right location, set the binding heels to the middle of
their track, place the toe and heal bindings pieces appropriately, mark,
centerpunch, and drill the holes, screw the binding down, set the
forward pressure adjustment, set the DIN adjustment, and check for
proper release function and release force. (BTW, you mount the second
ski relative to the first ski binding position; not by going through the
positioning process again. You want matched mountings, even if the ski
position marks are slightly askew.)

Problems occur in drilling the holes right through the base - using a
drill press makes that easy to avoid; and in mis-drilling - proper
center punching can control mis-drilling. But the primary problem is in
testing release function and force - and this is why most will advise
against doing your own mounting, including me. The shop charges alot
because they have an expensive, complex machine to amortise that does
these tests accurately. So there's some risk in doing it yourself: it
can be done. BTW, my boy spiraled his tibia when he was 5 - landed a
jump wrong. The bindings were professionally mounted and checked; it
didn't help. Skiing's a risk sport.

I recommend you not mount your own, but get a shop to mount and test the
bindings. (However, you can get a shop to adjust and test bindings that
are already mounted - probably for about half the mount price. They
won't know you mounted them yourself, if you did it right.)

  #5  
Old November 13th 03, 09:43 PM
Walt
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Default Mount Bindings

Sven Golly wrote:

In addition,
they'll make sure forward pressure is set correctly, verify release and
indemnify the installation.


The shop doesn't indemnify the installation. The manufacturer
indemnifies the shop - i.e. if something bad happens and you try to sue
the shop, the manufaturere will pay for a phalanx of lawyers to
represent the shop against you.


IOW, indemnification doesn't really do squat for you the consumer.
However,
without indemnification ( guaranteed legal protection) the shop won't
touch the binding, so the indemnification system allows the shops to be
in business.
I guess that's something...

--
//-Walt
//
// The Volkl Conspiracy
  #6  
Old November 13th 03, 09:56 PM
lal_truckee
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Default Mount Bindings

Sven Golly wrote:

In addition,
they'll make sure forward pressure is set correctly, verify release and
indemnify the installation.


The binding manufacturer indemnifies the shop against a customer's legal
claims. It's not the customer that gets indemnified.

The indemnification issue is why shops won't work on non-indemnified
bindings; it's NOT because the binding is necessarily suddenly bad or is
too old. It's just that the binding manufacturer doesn't want to back it
anymore, and the reason could be engineering or it could be marketing
(i.e. they want you to discard perfectly good bindings and buy new.) If
you look at an indemnification list, some manufacturers stand by their
bindings much longer than other manufacturers, and I don't believe it's
engineering. One company might try to sell more bindings by moving their
recent past issues off the list; another company might try to sell more
bindings by demonstrating longivity and sound engineering.

Last year's list
http://www.snowtradenews.com/stn/retailers/article/0,12902,355415,00.html

Anybody know where this year's list is?

  #7  
Old November 14th 03, 02:15 PM
Walt
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Default Mount Bindings

Sven Golly wrote:

I didn't mean to imply that the customer is indemnified.

Without indemnification, the shop can't get ANY insurance which would pay
for a claim. You're right about the lawyers but if you do the work
yourself, you won't get a dime if you screw up.


You could always sue yourself. And since you're not indemnified, you
might have a good chance of winning, or at least settling out of court.

Ok, I wrote the paragraph above as a joke, but this guy's mounting the
binding for somebody else (his son), so it's not actually that far
fetched that his son or the kid's mother could sue him for negligence.
And he's not indemnified.


IMHO, the risks of self-install outweigh the gains (= dinner for 2 at a
nice restaurant).


yup.

--
//-Walt
//
// The Volkl Conspiracy
  #8  
Old November 14th 03, 03:23 PM
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Default Mount Bindings


Mount-your-own?

Along with the recommendations already posted here ...

Assuming the bindings were correctly mounted before, it would not be too
difficult to make a template off the old skis, and transfer that drilling
pattern to the new skis.

Tooling you'll need --

* drill press
* clamp equipment to hold ski rigidly in place on drill press
* correct size drill bits
* correct size taps
* correct size NEW mounting hardware

plus misc. stuff like maybe a transfer punch set to make a sample template
to compare to the old skis, misc. adhesives and shop chemicals, etc. etc.

Oh, and a way to limit the depth of the drilled hole. Some drill presses
have an attachment for this; if you use it you'll also need a depth gauge
to verify the hole depth.

Wait, I forgot, your taps have to be bottoming taps, or otherwise the screws
will enlarge the bottom of the hole and distort the topskin, forcing the
bindings up from the topskin and jeopardizing their action and/or causing
them to fall off ...

Wait, I forgot, the necessary skills are not rocket science but you DO need
to know how to operate the machinery AND make accurate measurements and markings
-- did I mention enough squares and straightedges to ensure that the bindings
are parallel to the centerline of the skis? A yardstick is not sufficient,
but a 36" steel machinist's rule is a good start. You'll also need a machinist's
scale to verify hole positions before you start drilling...

Since I already have most of the tooling, I'd risk mounting my own bindings
if the new skis AND bindings were free or next-to-free, AND if I didn't have
anything better to do. I'm guessing it'd take me a few hours to do.

And that doesn't include the maintenance on my existing tooling investment,
or the new stuff I'd need to buy, which would push my out-of-pocket cost
close to $50.

In short, mounting bindings is well within the realm of something that you
could do in your basement or garage shop, assuming you had the tooling and
training, but most people choose to farm out this little bit of work because
it's just not cost-effective to do it at home.

The up-side? If you mount your own and something goes wrong, it's easy to
beat up the last ski tuner who worked on your sticks. I have a little story
about a ski patroller who caught me readjusting my bindings at the top of
the lift ...

  #9  
Old November 14th 03, 03:52 PM
Jay Pique
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Default Mount Bindings

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:23:01 -0000, wrote:


Mount-your-own?

Along with the recommendations already posted here ...

Assuming the bindings were correctly mounted before, it would not be too
difficult to make a template off the old skis, and transfer that drilling
pattern to the new skis.

Tooling you'll need --

* drill press


Not in any of the shops I've seen doing mountings.

JP
***************
One less nit.
 




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