trying to determine a good board for my needs

Matt wrote:
lonerider wrote:
Stiffer boots tend to be more expensive, so I understand that you

Well the good news here is that while this boot is soft it also fits
pretty tightly. I have no slide inside the boot, and I definitely
have
to walk heel first. They do have a fair amount of flex to them
though.
I'm hoping these will last me through next season so I can then
really
evaluate what I want. I chose these because I had zero heel lift with
them.

Sounds like you were exactly right on you own boot fitting. Zero heel
lift and no foot movement inside the boot are what people strive to
achieve (it's actually a problem I've been having myself). From my
experience, Salomon boots last at least 30 days of riding (about 2
seasons for most people) which is a little less than average and I
think will suffice for you. In the future, if you find yourself having
difficult carving tighter and harder toeside turns, you will need
stiffer boots (that's a bit far in the future right now though so don't
worry about it).

So as far as the back leg thing. I am still pretty nervous about
going
fast because the few times it has happened I have either gotten into
a
nasty wobble, and eventually I hang an edge and go down hard. So I
have
taken to side sliding a good bit to avoid gaining to much speed. I
realize this is a total crutch, but I don't how else to control my
speed. I assume there are other better ways once I progress, but I
want
to make sure I am not getting a board that will prevent me from
slowing
down when I need to. If the answer is "yes but it will take a bit
more
effort" then I am down with that. I am more than willing to have to
work harder to get the board to go where I want it to. I just need to
have some way to effectively control how fast I go down the mountain.
Otherwise, I do all my actual turning with my front leg. I hope this
clarifies my concerns somewhat.

Yes, I think you have the right idea. You definitely should be able to
push out the tail to control you speed occasionally and you already
know that it's a crutch, that's all I wanted to point out.

Again, you don't have to buy a super-stiff board immediately, but
if

So you recomend the Phoenix. Do you think this is a good long term
board that I can grow into? Is it just a good all around mountain
board
(I really don't care about tricks)? I know people were recommending
the
sasquach(sp?) earlier. Can you compare and contrast the two boards
for
me so I have a better idea about the pros/cons of the boards?

Ahem... I'm going on thin ice here. Personally yes, I would recommend
the Phoenix 163W if you didn't mind the $100 price increase between
that and the Sasquatch. It is definitely a board you can grow into
(I've been riding for a decade now and I think the Phoenix is one of
the best boards I've ever ridden... of course I've only ridden about a
dozen and a half boards total for more than a few hours). It will be
much more forgiving for beginners than the Incline/Wide/Sasquatch lines
(those are three versions of the same board for different footsizes)
and will definiteley be more versatile off the groomed runs (once you
get to that point) which is what Donek intended to it for. There is
definitely something to be said about the crisp riding of the freeride
line (Incline/Wide/Sasquatch) and where it is less forgiving is when
you are riding with bad form, so you will probably improve a lot more
quickly with them. It's hard for me to say exactly which you will
prefer because you are much bigger than me (I'm 5'8" 150 lbs) and you
are just starting out. That's the nice thing about Donek as I
mentioned... next season you can just ask Donek to send you a Sasquatch
and a Phoenix for you to try out and decide for yourself.

So I have solomon boots, and I imagine solomon bindings go well with
those, can you recommend some good bindings from flow, ride, and
solomon, with the obvious caveat that I need to make sure they fit my
boots? I'm just trying to figure out what I should be looking at.

Yes, Salomon uses it's boots to model the fit of it's bindings, so they
work very well together. I don't personally know the FLOW models very
well, so I will let someone else make suggestions for that if you
decide to go in that direction. The Ride EX and LX bindings are very
nice and responsive (I believe both have aluminum baseplates) with the
LS being the affordable model. The Salomon SP4 and SP5 shaped are
excellent mid-range bindings, the SP2 and SP2 Shaped are still quite
good, but cheaper. The reason why I suggested the Ride and Salomon is
because I feel that even the lower end bindings are still based on a
pretty solid design, just with less frills than the higher models
(comparing them you can see the higher end stuff has slightly better
materials, better straps, better rachets, etc... so you can choose you
own price/performance ratio). The Burton missions are pretty decent,
but the Custom and Freestyle are very mediocre in my opinion (although
I haven't specifically looked at them in the last 2-3 years).

Thanks again for all the help. This group is amazingly friendly.

Heh... gotta do something now that the season is almost over. Plus
everyone hear has a big opinion, and loves telling people about it

--Arvin

Sorry to ambush the thread but this is all very interesting, I use Salomon
Dialogue boots and Saloman SP4 bindings on my Incline 160. I used to live
about an hour from my local east coast slope so I used to get in around
20-30 days a season factoring in a 7 to 10 day out west trip. I got my boots
in Whistler around 4 seasons ago. I moved from to the UK last year so I
haven't been able to hit the slopes that much this year only 9 or so days in
the Alps.

This season I felt that I was struggling to get the board nicely up on its
edge. I kept thinking "if only the ankle strp on the bindings was mounted
higher up on the binding it would stop this disconnect between the boot and
the board" ,partly I put alot of this down to not being able to get out
riding as much as I am used to and the fact that the conditions were close
to sheet ice.

Do you think I have just finally flexed my boots one time too many? IS it
the boots shell or the liner that is too soft now (or a bit of both)? Would
it be worth tracking down a new liner for an old boot?

Finally if I had to replace the boots now, are the current Salomon boots
simlar enough so I can use my custom foot beds out of my old Dialogues in
the new boots?

Thanks in advnace.

chiliblue wrote:
Sorry to ambush the thread but this is all very interesting, I use
Salomon
Dialogue boots and Saloman SP4 bindings on my Incline 160. I used to
live
about an hour from my local east coast slope so I used to get in
around
20-30 days a season factoring in a 7 to 10 day out west trip. I got
my boots
in Whistler around 4 seasons ago. I moved from to the UK last year so
I
haven't been able to hit the slopes that much this year only 9 or so
days in
the Alps.

Hey, you have a very similar setup to what I had a few years ago... I
had 2001 Salomon Dialogues (orange/black) with SP4 Shaped bindings.

This season I felt that I was struggling to get the board nicely up
on its
edge. I kept thinking "if only the ankle strp on the bindings was
mounted
higher up on the binding it would stop this disconnect between the
boot and
the board" ,partly I put alot of this down to not being able to get
out
riding as much as I am used to and the fact that the conditions were
close
to sheet ice.

Do you think I have just finally flexed my boots one time too many?
IS it
the boots shell or the liner that is too soft now (or a bit of both)?
Would
it be worth tracking down a new liner for an old boot?

What you describe I think is exactly what happens when a boot softens
up too much. The ankle strap should really only be there to keep you
boot attached to the binding, the power that allows you to get you
toeside turn up on edge (unless you havea 3-strap binding) comes from
the stiffness of the boot tongue. You should be able bend your knees
and drive your shins into the front of the boot, the stiffness of the
boot should keep it from flexing much farther then an angled 'L' or
"/_" after that all the energy from your shins should tilt the boot
over like so it '', then the bindings are attached to the boot snugly
and that will transfer into the board. If your boots are worn out, when
you drive you knees/shins forward, the boots just flex a lot and you
don't get much energy transfer to the board via the bindings. Did that
make sense? It is the boot shell that is now too soft if you are having
toeside with your toeside. The Salomon liners also have a tendency to
pack out (so the inside of the boot is 1/2 to a full size large)...
which will lead heellift and cause you to tighten you laces a lot more
and likely overtighten your ankle strap more in an effort to lockdown
your ankle/heel.

Finally if I had to replace the boots now, are the current Salomon
boots
simlar enough so I can use my custom foot beds out of my old
Dialogues in
the new boots?

I think the Salomon boots are relatively similar in terms of length vs
width... but you really should just bring your footbeds with you to a
store, look at the boot, pull out the stock footbed, compare its
profile with yours, and then finally just stick in your own footbed
into the boot when trying it on. Since Salomon is a European brand I
don't for see you having to order online for it.

Hope that helps

lonerider wrote:


Ahem... I'm going on thin ice here. Personally yes, I would recommend
the Phoenix 163W if you didn't mind the $100 price increase between
that and the Sasquatch. It is definitely a board you can grow into
(I've been riding for a decade now and I think the Phoenix is one of
the best boards I've ever ridden... of course I've only ridden about
a
dozen and a half boards total for more than a few hours). It will be
much more forgiving for beginners than the Incline/Wide/Sasquatch
lines
(those are three versions of the same board for different footsizes)
and will definiteley be more versatile off the groomed runs (once you
get to that point) which is what Donek intended to it for. There is
definitely something to be said about the crisp riding of the
freeride
line (Incline/Wide/Sasquatch) and where it is less forgiving is when
you are riding with bad form, so you will probably improve a lot more
quickly with them. It's hard for me to say exactly which you will
prefer because you are much bigger than me (I'm 5'8" 150 lbs) and you
are just starting out. That's the nice thing about Donek as I
mentioned... next season you can just ask Donek to send you a
Sasquatch
and a Phoenix for you to try out and decide for yourself.


I realize that you are guessing a bit, but that is all good with me.
Your guess is going to be much better than mine. If you think the
Phoenix is a good solid freeride board that sounds good to me. I can
always get a sasquatch later if I decide I need something that carves
more cleanly in the future. I still have a couple more weeks this
season so I might try to get a Phoenix before the end of the year. I
guess I will have to call them and see if this will work.

Yes, Salomon uses it's boots to model the fit of it's bindings, so
they
work very well together. I don't personally know the FLOW models very
well, so I will let someone else make suggestions for that if you
decide to go in that direction. The Ride EX and LX bindings are very
nice and responsive (I believe both have aluminum baseplates) with
the
LS being the affordable model. The Salomon SP4 and SP5 shaped are
excellent mid-range bindings, the SP2 and SP2 Shaped are still quite
good, but cheaper. The reason why I suggested the Ride and Salomon is
because I feel that even the lower end bindings are still based on a
pretty solid design, just with less frills than the higher models
(comparing them you can see the higher end stuff has slightly better
materials, better straps, better rachets, etc... so you can choose
you
own price/performance ratio). The Burton missions are pretty decent,
but the Custom and Freestyle are very mediocre in my opinion
(although
I haven't specifically looked at them in the last 2-3 years).


I think you have convinced me to track down some solomon/ride bindings.
Now I just need to find some small footprint good kneepads so I don't
keep banging up my poor knees. Any advice in this area would be great
also.

--Matt

Heh not just similar but exactly the same, orange and black. You were spot
on on the over tightening the laces too...I would be on my back tugging for
all I am worth this year. Having 3 strap bindings also crossed my mind
too...yay I can blame my weak carving this season to my boots.

OK I think a new pair of boots are in order, I'll stick with Salomon as they
have been very good but I might go upscale and try the Synapse or Malamute.
The Malamute seems to be ultra stiff . Does anyone have any opinions on them
( I am going to get my first pair of hards and plates this year too) but I
like a pretty stiff boot.

"lonerider" wrote in message
ups.com...
chiliblue wrote:
Sorry to ambush the thread but this is all very interesting, I use
Salomon
Dialogue boots and Saloman SP4 bindings on my Incline 160. I used to
live
about an hour from my local east coast slope so I used to get in
around
20-30 days a season factoring in a 7 to 10 day out west trip. I got
my boots
in Whistler around 4 seasons ago. I moved from to the UK last year so
I
haven't been able to hit the slopes that much this year only 9 or so
days in
the Alps.

Hey, you have a very similar setup to what I had a few years ago... I
had 2001 Salomon Dialogues (orange/black) with SP4 Shaped bindings.

This season I felt that I was struggling to get the board nicely up
on its
edge. I kept thinking "if only the ankle strp on the bindings was
mounted
higher up on the binding it would stop this disconnect between the
boot and
the board" ,partly I put alot of this down to not being able to get
out
riding as much as I am used to and the fact that the conditions were
close
to sheet ice.

Do you think I have just finally flexed my boots one time too many?
IS it
the boots shell or the liner that is too soft now (or a bit of both)?
Would
it be worth tracking down a new liner for an old boot?

What you describe I think is exactly what happens when a boot softens
up too much. The ankle strap should really only be there to keep you
boot attached to the binding, the power that allows you to get you
toeside turn up on edge (unless you havea 3-strap binding) comes from
the stiffness of the boot tongue. You should be able bend your knees
and drive your shins into the front of the boot, the stiffness of the
boot should keep it from flexing much farther then an angled 'L' or
"/_" after that all the energy from your shins should tilt the boot
over like so it '', then the bindings are attached to the boot snugly
and that will transfer into the board. If your boots are worn out, when
you drive you knees/shins forward, the boots just flex a lot and you
don't get much energy transfer to the board via the bindings. Did that
make sense? It is the boot shell that is now too soft if you are having
toeside with your toeside. The Salomon liners also have a tendency to
pack out (so the inside of the boot is 1/2 to a full size large)...
which will lead heellift and cause you to tighten you laces a lot more
and likely overtighten your ankle strap more in an effort to lockdown
your ankle/heel.

Finally if I had to replace the boots now, are the current Salomon
boots
simlar enough so I can use my custom foot beds out of my old
Dialogues in
the new boots?

I think the Salomon boots are relatively similar in terms of length vs
width... but you really should just bring your footbeds with you to a
store, look at the boot, pull out the stock footbed, compare its
profile with yours, and then finally just stick in your own footbed
into the boot when trying it on. Since Salomon is a European brand I
don't for see you having to order online for it.

Hope that helps

chiliblue wrote:
OK I think a new pair of boots are in order, I'll stick with Salomon
as they
have been very good but I might go upscale and try the Synapse or
Malamute.
The Malamute seems to be ultra stiff . Does anyone have any opinions
on them
( I am going to get my first pair of hards and plates this year too)
but I
like a pretty stiff boot.

Definitely try them out. I tried upgrading as well, but I didn't really
like the design of the 2003-2004 Synapse that much, but that was mainly
a foot vs boot size/shape compatibility issues so your experience will
be different (plus it's been 2 years). I haven't actually worn the
Malamutes on the mountain myself so I can't comment except for the fact
that I like the internal ankle-strap they have inside the boot. I know
four people who ride with the Malamutes and love them, but they are all
mainly hardbooters so I don't know how much you can draw from that
except to say that yes.. they are stiff boots. I'm told the F24 is a
nice boot, not quite as stiff, but much smaller profile which a lot of
people like. I'm riding ThirtyTwo Forecasts right now. I like them
because they are made for people with narrow feet (like me) and come
with fully heat-moldable Intuition liners. The are only medium in
stiffness and sometimes I wish they were a tad stiffer, but I guess
that makes them very versatile for my own personal riding style.

Matt wrote:

I realize that you are guessing a bit, but that is all good with me.
Your guess is going to be much better than mine. If you think the
Phoenix is a good solid freeride board that sounds good to me. I can
always get a sasquatch later if I decide I need something that carves
more cleanly in the future. I still have a couple more weeks this
season so I might try to get a Phoenix before the end of the year. I
guess I will have to call them and see if this will work.


Yes, my personal opinion is that the Phoenix is an excellent freeride
board that carves nicely but is also very capable in trees and bumps,
where as the Sasquatch is more of a freecarver stlye board that can be
taken off-piste (will easily float in powder), but it is foremostly
designed for carving up groomed runs and less for snaking between
trees. Donek has done a very good job design both boards to be a lot of
fun, but each has a distinctly different flavor to it.

I think you have convinced me to track down some solomon/ride
bindings.
Now I just need to find some small footprint good kneepads so I
don't
keep banging up my poor knees. Any advice in this area would be great
also.

I'm actually doing my own search for knee pads as I've been using the
same pair of Triple-8 Kelvar padded kneepads that have protected me
very well for the past 8 years or so. I sprained my knee last year and
stopped wearing them for a few month because I had a knee brace on (and
I wasn't doing much park). Putting the pads back on recently has also
make them feel a little bulky. Nevertheless, the Triple-8 softcap
kelvar pads have protected me for many years and barely show any signs
of wear at all (the softcap probably helps keep my pants from getting
shredded as well). So all the stuff I'm about to mention are basically
"hearsay and rumors" as I haven't actually used them myself, so I have
no clue as to how they really are.

I am considering going for pads from this company called ProDesigned
that's been making top of the line pads for 20 years (though their
website looks really amateurish at
http://www.prodesigned.com/kneepads.htm).. Roving the longboard
skateboard forums (where people regularly speed down asphalt roads at
40+ mph) I heard about these pads excellent in terms of protection and
fit as they allow you to send in your knee/leg measurements for a
"customized" fit. I haven't actually tried them myself yet and the pads
are pretty expensive even though I'm going for the smaller, thinner
1/2" inline pads instead of the bulky 1" vert skating pads. For really
light weight you might consider soft knee pads (I saw them at REI
http://tinyurl.com/6cwrz, never tried them... but if you don't like REI
allows for returns after usage, I also so knee gaskets at
http://www.timeshipracing.com/safety.htm, which also carreid Scabs knee
pads which were also recommended to me). I'm still debating... but
should decide sometime next month when I start doing more downhill
skateboarding. If you haven't figured it out yet... I'm actually kind
of a wuss in terms of physical pain... after banging my tailbone one
too many times down boardslides on rails, I also got a Crash pads
padded shorts, last year I upgraded them to Sketetool padded shorts
(www.skeletools.com) which I liked so much I go the padded jacket for
when downhill skateboard. Something about speeding down a paved hill at
25+ mph on a skateboard with no straps makes me slightly fearful and
the padded jacket with ribs/clavicle/shoulder/back protection goes a
long way in easing my fears (I'm basically an human armored bug!).
Maybe it's also because I play a lot of recreation ice hockey, where
I'm used to being completely protected with pads - a good thing too
because at 5'8" 150, I'm one of the smallest players in my league.

Hi

I've had my Malamutes for a while now and absolutely love them. VERY
supportive, but they have packed out a bit. The internal strap mitigates
this a bit though and helps a lot with the dreaded heel lift... I'll
definitely get another pair.

I'm 6'1" and about 200lbs. FYI, I ride a Donek Wide 161 with Catek Freeride
Pros - hoping to get a 165 for next year. Fantastic boards for carving on
piste (and powder 'cos of the width). Not so nimble in the trees though, as
Lonerider pointed out.

To get the best out of the boots, you'll need a pretty stiff binding - I
previously had a pair of Drake Matrix, but they felt really "soft" with the
Malamutes/Donek combo. The bindings would flex without influencing the board
at all.

Great softboot setup for carving, but not so hot if you like the park...

Cheers

Andy

"chiliblue" wrote in message
...
Heh not just similar but exactly the same, orange and black. You were spot
on on the over tightening the laces too...I would be on my back tugging
for
all I am worth this year. Having 3 strap bindings also crossed my mind
too...yay I can blame my weak carving this season to my boots.

OK I think a new pair of boots are in order, I'll stick with Salomon as
they
have been very good but I might go upscale and try the Synapse or
Malamute.
The Malamute seems to be ultra stiff . Does anyone have any opinions on
them
( I am going to get my first pair of hards and plates this year too) but I
like a pretty stiff boot.

"lonerider" wrote in message
ups.com...
chiliblue wrote:
Sorry to ambush the thread but this is all very interesting, I use
Salomon
Dialogue boots and Saloman SP4 bindings on my Incline 160. I used to
live
about an hour from my local east coast slope so I used to get in
around
20-30 days a season factoring in a 7 to 10 day out west trip. I got
my boots
in Whistler around 4 seasons ago. I moved from to the UK last year so
I
haven't been able to hit the slopes that much this year only 9 or so
days in
the Alps.

Hey, you have a very similar setup to what I had a few years ago... I
had 2001 Salomon Dialogues (orange/black) with SP4 Shaped bindings.

This season I felt that I was struggling to get the board nicely up
on its
edge. I kept thinking "if only the ankle strp on the bindings was
mounted
higher up on the binding it would stop this disconnect between the
boot and
the board" ,partly I put alot of this down to not being able to get
out
riding as much as I am used to and the fact that the conditions were
close
to sheet ice.

Do you think I have just finally flexed my boots one time too many?
IS it
the boots shell or the liner that is too soft now (or a bit of both)?
Would
it be worth tracking down a new liner for an old boot?

What you describe I think is exactly what happens when a boot softens
up too much. The ankle strap should really only be there to keep you
boot attached to the binding, the power that allows you to get you
toeside turn up on edge (unless you havea 3-strap binding) comes from
the stiffness of the boot tongue. You should be able bend your knees
and drive your shins into the front of the boot, the stiffness of the
boot should keep it from flexing much farther then an angled 'L' or
"/_" after that all the energy from your shins should tilt the boot
over like so it '', then the bindings are attached to the boot snugly
and that will transfer into the board. If your boots are worn out, when
you drive you knees/shins forward, the boots just flex a lot and you
don't get much energy transfer to the board via the bindings. Did that
make sense? It is the boot shell that is now too soft if you are having
toeside with your toeside. The Salomon liners also have a tendency to
pack out (so the inside of the boot is 1/2 to a full size large)...
which will lead heellift and cause you to tighten you laces a lot more
and likely overtighten your ankle strap more in an effort to lockdown
your ankle/heel.

Finally if I had to replace the boots now, are the current Salomon
boots
simlar enough so I can use my custom foot beds out of my old
Dialogues in
the new boots?

I think the Salomon boots are relatively similar in terms of length vs
width... but you really should just bring your footbeds with you to a
store, look at the boot, pull out the stock footbed, compare its
profile with yours, and then finally just stick in your own footbed
into the boot when trying it on. Since Salomon is a European brand I
don't for see you having to order online for it.

Hope that helps

Andy Sandford wrote:
I've had my Malamutes for a while now and absolutely love them. VERY
supportive, but they have packed out a bit. The internal strap mitigates
this a bit though and helps a lot with the dreaded heel lift.

Heat mold the liners. I finally tried it and that made my heel very
happy.

Dean

lonerider wrote:


I'm actually doing my own search for knee pads as I've been using the
same pair of Triple-8 Kelvar padded kneepads that have protected me
very well for the past 8 years or so. I sprained my knee last year
and
stopped wearing them for a few month because I had a knee brace on
(and
I wasn't doing much park). Putting the pads back on recently has also
make them feel a little bulky. Nevertheless, the Triple-8 softcap
kelvar pads have protected me for many years and barely show any
signs
of wear at all (the softcap probably helps keep my pants from getting
shredded as well). So all the stuff I'm about to mention are
basically
"hearsay and rumors" as I haven't actually used them myself, so I
have
no clue as to how they really are.

I am considering going for pads from this company called ProDesigned
that's been making top of the line pads for 20 years (though their
website looks really amateurish at
http://www.prodesigned.com/kneepads.htm).. Roving the longboard
skateboard forums (where people regularly speed down asphalt roads at
40+ mph) I heard about these pads excellent in terms of protection
and
fit as they allow you to send in your knee/leg measurements for a
"customized" fit. I haven't actually tried them myself yet and the
pads
are pretty expensive even though I'm going for the smaller, thinner
1/2" inline pads instead of the bulky 1" vert skating pads. For
really
light weight you might consider soft knee pads (I saw them at REI
http://tinyurl.com/6cwrz, never tried them... but if you don't like
REI
allows for returns after usage, I also so knee gaskets at
http://www.timeshipracing.com/safety.htm, which also carreid Scabs
knee
pads which were also recommended to me). I'm still debating... but
should decide sometime next month when I start doing more downhill
skateboarding. If you haven't figured it out yet... I'm actually kind
of a wuss in terms of physical pain... after banging my tailbone one
too many times down boardslides on rails, I also got a Crash pads
padded shorts, last year I upgraded them to Sketetool padded shorts
(www.skeletools.com) which I liked so much I go the padded jacket for
when downhill skateboard. Something about speeding down a paved hill
at
25+ mph on a skateboard with no straps makes me slightly fearful and
the padded jacket with ribs/clavicle/shoulder/back protection goes a
long way in easing my fears (I'm basically an human armored bug!).
Maybe it's also because I play a lot of recreation ice hockey, where
I'm used to being completely protected with pads - a good thing too
because at 5'8" 150, I'm one of the smallest players in my league.

Hmm. I am already targeting the skeltools pants, and was thinking about
getting the knee pads from them also. Now I have more choices to
consider!!! ARG!!

I"ll figure something out before I go back on the snow in a couple
weeks.

--Matt