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Bad glide on classic skis



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 28th 07, 06:00 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
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Posts: 8
Default Bad glide on classic skis

I am new to waxable classics this year and used them for the first
time at the Canadian Ski Marathon and the Keskinada. I seem to be
able to wax well for a decent kick (at least I was able to get up the
hills fairly well) but at the Keski my glide was poor after the first
10K or so. Previously, on the long downhills I found myself jumping
out of the tracks when I used my waxless -- at fast speeds I lost my
nerve. But this year the same tracks were never scary -- and I doubt
that it was because I had finally become a dare-devil downhill skier.
Ha! I simply never got to wicked speeds on the downhills this
year.

Comparing myself to others, in the first 10K I was keeping up well or
passing on the downhills. After that, I continued to lose ground,
though still did well climbing.

I used Toko Dibloc red in the glide zones, and a mix of VR40 over VR30
on top of a binder in the kick zone. Temps got warm -- upper 20s
Fahrenheit.

Any suggestions? Perhaps I put too many layers of kick wax on and the
skis dragged? The kick wax was too cold/warm? Sometimes it seemed
like snow was balling up under the ski. I brushed them off once.

There were a few white spots on the glide zones after the race, but
that didn't seem too unusual for a long race on newer skis. Or is
it?

As for fit, the skis are new as of December and were fitted by a
reputable shop.

Thanks for input!
Mary

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  #2  
Old February 28th 07, 06:59 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
WasGitchi
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Posts: 37
Default Bad glide on classic skis

mmm. tough one, sounds like you had the kick wax selection. In my
option, diabloc red isn't really fast, but it shouldn't have been
slow.

Have you gotten alot of K on the skis since you bought them or have
you gotten them ground from a local shop? Depending on the machine,
it can take from 0-300Km before the skis are fast.

Did you get your kick zone marked? Usually shops will draw a line on
the ski telling you where to wax.

how are your corking skills? After you corked, was the kick wax
smooth or did it have ridges?


byrnes-out


On Feb 28, 12:00 pm, wrote:
I am new to waxable classics this year and used them for the first
time at the Canadian Ski Marathon and the Keskinada. I seem to be
able to wax well for a decent kick (at least I was able to get up the
hills fairly well) but at the Keski my glide was poor after the first
10K or so. Previously, on the long downhills I found myself jumping
out of the tracks when I used my waxless -- at fast speeds I lost my
nerve. But this year the same tracks were never scary -- and I doubt
that it was because I had finally become a dare-devil downhill skier.
Ha! I simply never got to wicked speeds on the downhills this
year.

Comparing myself to others, in the first 10K I was keeping up well or
passing on the downhills. After that, I continued to lose ground,
though still did well climbing.

I used Toko Dibloc red in the glide zones, and a mix of VR40 over VR30
on top of a binder in the kick zone. Temps got warm -- upper 20s
Fahrenheit.

Any suggestions? Perhaps I put too many layers of kick wax on and the
skis dragged? The kick wax was too cold/warm? Sometimes it seemed
like snow was balling up under the ski. I brushed them off once.

There were a few white spots on the glide zones after the race, but
that didn't seem too unusual for a long race on newer skis. Or is
it?

As for fit, the skis are new as of December and were fitted by a
reputable shop.

Thanks for input!
Mary





  #3  
Old February 28th 07, 07:21 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
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Posts: 565
Default Bad glide on classic skis

First thing that comes to mind is durability of your glide wax.
Normally, kick wax wears and so glide improves over time. What did
you do to prepare glide zones?

rm

wrote:

I am new to waxable classics this year and used them for the first
time at the Canadian Ski Marathon and the Keskinada. I seem to be
able to wax well for a decent kick (at least I was able to get up the
hills fairly well) but at the Keski my glide was poor after the first
10K or so.

  #4  
Old February 28th 07, 10:34 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Camilo
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Posts: 144
Default Bad glide on classic skis

On Feb 28, 10:21 am, wrote:
First thing that comes to mind is durability of your glide wax.
Normally, kick wax wears and so glide improves over time. What did
you do to prepare glide zones?

rm



wrote:
I am new to waxable classics this year and used them for the first
time at the Canadian Ski Marathon and the Keskinada. I seem to be
able to wax well for a decent kick (at least I was able to get up the
hills fairly well) but at the Keski my glide was poor after the first
10K or so. - Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


What would change over time on striding skis is either the glide wax
wears off or the kick wax wears off, or snow conditions change. In my
humble experience, glide wax wearing might slow the skis down a
little, but it's not something that would make a huge difference.

As rm said, usually wearing kick wax results in decreased kick and
better glide.

But, I recently experienced decreased glide during a 30 K classic
training ski. I think it was caused by cold temp kick wax wearing off
down to the binder.

I had prepped by:

removing all kick wax (with solvent)
roughing kick zone with sand paper
heating in a thin layer of binder and corking after cooled
applying 4-5 layers of wax of the day, which was in the green-blue
range (pretty cold).

I know from previous experience that 4-5 layers of kick wax won't last
me 30 K - I had intended to only go 15 or so when I started. The skis
worked really well for 12-20 k: good grip and excellent glide compared
to the people I was skiing with.

I am absolutely positive that my glide decreased as I wore through the
cold temp kick wax and got down to the binder. I was doing fine with
my partners going up hill, but my downhill glide decreased
dramatically after about 20 km.

I could see this when I looked at the skis afterwards.

  #5  
Old March 1st 07, 12:42 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
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Posts: 8
Default Bad glide on classic skis


Have you gotten alot of K on the skis since you bought them or have
you gotten them ground from a local shop? Depending on the machine,
it can take from 0-300Km before the skis are fast.


Not a lot of time on them, since we haven't had much snow. I've been
ironing in warm wax, but perhaps they simply need more.


Did you get your kick zone marked? Usually shops will draw a line on
the ski telling you where to wax.

Yes, I'm marked for hard waxes and kllister

how are your corking skills? After you corked, was the kick wax
smooth or did it have ridges?


I think I am corking ok, but perhaps putting on more than is
necessary, so it takes a bit to get the wax smooth.

Thanks for the reply. Perhaps I just need to get more warm wax ironed
in,
Mary

  #6  
Old March 1st 07, 12:44 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
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Posts: 8
Default Bad glide on classic skis

On Feb 28, 1:21 pm, wrote:
First thing that comes to mind is durability of your glide wax.
Normally, kick wax wears and so glide improves over time. What did
you do to prepare glide zones?


I did what I do for skate skis -- ironed in a few layers of yellow
when I got them and then just a couple of layers of wax appropriate
for the day. As I noted to the last reply, perhaps I simply need to
iron in more warm wax.

Thanks for your response!

  #7  
Old March 1st 07, 12:48 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
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Posts: 8
Default Bad glide on classic skis


I am absolutely positive that my glide decreased as I wore through the
cold temp kick wax and got down to the binder. I was doing fine with
my partners going up hill, but my downhill glide decreased
dramatically after about 20 km.


This sounds like my experience. I could go uphill fine -- often
passing others. But going down I was slow as molasses. Thanks for
the reply.

  #8  
Old March 1st 07, 03:18 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
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Posts: 565
Default Bad glide on classic skis

No, you need to harden the base with some colder waxes for better wear
and durability, even for skiing in warmer temps. After cleaning them
with yellow, work down the temp scale a couple of levels, letting them
cool between each (overnight is best, but an hour or two will do).
Scrape and brush each layer and then start with the wax(es) for the day.
I didn't catch what the Keski temp range was, but lots of time people
will start with an appropriate LF moly and/or graphite wax (Swix or
Star MAP black or MAP200), then add the waxes of the day on top. The
moly and graphite are primarily about durability over distance.

rm

wrote:

On Feb 28, 1:21 pm, wrote:
First thing that comes to mind is durability of your glide wax.
Normally, kick wax wears and so glide improves over time. What did
you do to prepare glide zones?


I did what I do for skate skis -- ironed in a few layers of yellow
when I got them and then just a couple of layers of wax appropriate
for the day. As I noted to the last reply, perhaps I simply need to
iron in more warm wax.

Thanks for your response!

  #9  
Old March 1st 07, 06:55 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
sherwindu
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Posts: 5
Default Bad glide on classic skis

I may be oversimplifying the situation, but I think this was a case of the wrong
kick
wax for the air/snow temperature. Did you check to see if you had any snow
sticking to the kick area, which would indicate too warm a wax for the
conditions.
Ice build up could also be a problem. There is a close trade off between grip
and
glide. Sometimes, you have to sacrifice a bit of grip to increase your glide,
and
visa versa. Your comment about the snow balling up under the ski indicates to
me
that you were using too warm a ski wax.

Sherwin D.

wrote:

I am new to waxable classics this year and used them for the first
time at the Canadian Ski Marathon and the Keskinada. I seem to be
able to wax well for a decent kick (at least I was able to get up the
hills fairly well) but at the Keski my glide was poor after the first
10K or so. Previously, on the long downhills I found myself jumping
out of the tracks when I used my waxless -- at fast speeds I lost my
nerve. But this year the same tracks were never scary -- and I doubt
that it was because I had finally become a dare-devil downhill skier.
Ha! I simply never got to wicked speeds on the downhills this
year.

Comparing myself to others, in the first 10K I was keeping up well or
passing on the downhills. After that, I continued to lose ground,
though still did well climbing.

I used Toko Dibloc red in the glide zones, and a mix of VR40 over VR30
on top of a binder in the kick zone. Temps got warm -- upper 20s
Fahrenheit.

Any suggestions? Perhaps I put too many layers of kick wax on and the
skis dragged? The kick wax was too cold/warm? Sometimes it seemed
like snow was balling up under the ski. I brushed them off once.

There were a few white spots on the glide zones after the race, but
that didn't seem too unusual for a long race on newer skis. Or is
it?

As for fit, the skis are new as of December and were fitted by a
reputable shop.

Thanks for input!
Mary


 




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