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Can Snowboarders and skiiers be friends?



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 15th 05, 08:33 PM
Chris J.
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"lonerider" wrote in message
oups.com...
Robert Stevahn wrote:
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:00:37 -0800, "Bob"
wrote:

I used to crew for a league race operation. The boarders best times

were
always way higher than the better skiers.


I wonder why the sanctioning bodies give handicaps to boarders and
telemarkers, then?

In our one league race this year (before they cancelled due to lack

of
snow), the two boarders were several seconds slower than the fastest
skiers on the GS course.

-- Robert


I think he is providing evidence supporting you claim... notice he says
best times were way "higher," which if you think about it... means
"slower" I had to re-read the post a bunch of times before getting that
myself. So yea, I personally have found that a skiier at a particular
level of ability will be faster down the slope than a comparable
snowboarder - that is just a general rule.


Skiers can get more air out of the pipe than a comparable 'boarder as well.


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  #22  
Old March 15th 05, 10:45 PM
Robert Stevahn
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On 15 Mar 2005 11:25:21 -0800, "lonerider"
wrote:

I think he is providing evidence supporting you claim... notice he says
best times were way "higher,"


Doh! My bad.

-- Robert
  #23  
Old March 15th 05, 11:57 PM
fotoobscura
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Wow its turned into what I guess it would turn out to be. A ****ing
match.

I am a snowboarder and I have yet to see a snowboard exceed the speed
of skiis. Its quite simple, actually (and true!)

Skii's take up less surface area. Less surface area == less friction
== more speed. There really is no arguing that. Now whether or not
you're matching up the right people to compare this theory is another
matter which may be impossible to prove in that sense.

Try the theory on ice while you're at it so you can get in the Guinness
Book. Just wear a helmet

  #24  
Old March 16th 05, 01:33 AM
Dmitry
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"fotoobscura" wrote

Skii's take up less surface area. Less surface area == less friction
== more speed. There really is no arguing that. Now whether or not
you're matching up the right people to compare this theory is another
matter which may be impossible to prove in that sense.


1. Skis have less surface area? Where did that come from?
2. Less surface area == less friction? Where did that come from?

In my experience for a snowboarder and a skier of the comparable
level what a person likes and does most determines who'll be the
first to the bottom. I won't argue that in all-out racing skis are a much
better tool than a snowboard, but for people who are not racing
equipment isn't that much of a factor. I've got skier friends who are
better than me level-wise and are in better shape, yet I wait for them
more they wait for me just because they like going slow where I like
going fast. Works vice-versa too, I know a guy who skis pretty
poorly and yet he'll be the first to the bottom on everything but the gnariest
terrain just because he can muscle his way down and enjoys that quite
a bit.


  #25  
Old March 16th 05, 07:24 AM
Bryan
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"Dean" wrote in message ...
Bryan wrote:
And why do boarders sit down in the middle of runs?


There are two questions: Why do they sit? Why do they sit in the middle
of runs?

After great consideration I've concluded that the answer is: Because
they can and standing still on a board is very difficult. Sitting with
skis probably isn't realistic which is why some skiers stand in the
middle of runs.

If you want to know why they sit in the middle of runs to socialize
rather than sitting on a side, that's probably because they are young
and aren't thinking. I don't see older boarders sitting in the middle of
runs. We go to the edge to sit and sooth our aching legs and wobbly
knees or to admire the view. I've had to tell kids at the top of hills,

The common element is "young" and "inexperienced". Vans pull into the
resorts, kids get out, and the vans leave. The ski patrol is not a
substitute for parental supervision and training.

Dean


Nice answer!


  #26  
Old March 16th 05, 07:38 AM
Bryan
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"Robert Stevahn" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 05:10:30 GMT, "Bryan"
wrote:

I was
thinking that he would probably have more fun riding than skiing. That
however is based on the assumption (out of total ingnorance) that
snowboarders spend most of their day at the terrain parks and pipes.


There are all kinds of boarders and all kinds of skiiers. I ride with
both, but obviously gravitate toward those who enjoy the same sort of
things I do. It's no problem boarding with skiiers, although expert
skiiers will get down the mountain faster than expert boarders.

If he's happy with skis, get him a pair of twin tips and he'll find
plenty of company in the park.

-- Robert


Well guys, thanks for all the great feedback. Some great answers to things
I was thinking about. Seriously!


  #27  
Old March 16th 05, 08:10 AM
lonerider
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fotoobscura wrote:
Wow its turned into what I guess it would turn out to be. A ****ing
match.


Actually if you read the posts more carefully, everyone is in
agreement. Skis tend to be faster.

I am a snowboarder and I have yet to see a snowboard exceed the speed
of skiis. Its quite simple, actually (and true!)


Like I said, it is possible... but usually it's a snowboarder who is a
level or two higher than the skiier you are comparing with.

  #28  
Old March 16th 05, 03:20 PM
Neil Gendzwill
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fotoobscura wrote:

Skii's take up less surface area. Less surface area == less friction
== more speed. There really is no arguing that.


Actually there's quite a lot of arguing that. I don't deny that skis
are faster, better racing tools but surface area isn't the reason. In
fact, my 200 cm Tanker snowboard has more surface area than any other
snow tool I can think of off-hand but in terms of pure glide it stomps
all over most skis. This is measured by the number of people I pass
just gliding by on cat tracks. Downhill racers are looking for the most
speed but use the longest, widest skis.

As far as who's fastest down the hill in recreational mode - depends
entirely on conditions. If it's an icy bump run, the skier probably
wins. If it's waist deep powder and I'm on the Tanker - sayonara, baby.

But most of all, it's the driver, not the equipment. I pass damn near
everybody, skiis or snowboard. That's why my wife made me get a helmet.

Neil

  #29  
Old March 16th 05, 03:22 PM
Walt
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fotoobscura wrote:

Skii's take up less surface area. Less surface area == less friction
== more speed. There really is no arguing that.


Um....yes there is. Get out your Physics 101 text. Friction force is
equal to (weight) x (coefficient of friction). It's independent of
surface area. And since ski and snowboard bases are made out of the
same materials (ptex) the coefficient of friction is the same.

A better explanation of why skis tend to be faster than boards is that
long skinny things move through liquid more easily than short wide
things, because long skinny things don't have to push as much stuff out
of the way. This applies to sailboats, canoes, kayaks, as well as snow
sliding equipment.

That said, the real mark of accomplisment is not speed itself so much as
being able to control your speed. Any geezer can just point straight
down the hill and try to hang on.


Wow its turned into what I guess it would turn out to be.
A ****ing match.



Hmmmm. Everyone has been pretty well behaved as far as I can see.
Consensus opinion seems to be that as long as both parties have similar
taste in terrain and ride/ski at more or less the same speed, what's on
the feet isn't really much of an issue.

I ski with boarder friends on occasion, and the biggest issue is waiting
for them to strap in at the top.

--
//-Walt
//
// There is no Völkl Conspiracy
  #30  
Old March 16th 05, 04:09 PM
Neil Gendzwill
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Walt wrote:

fotoobscura wrote:

Skii's take up less surface area. Less surface area == less friction
== more speed. There really is no arguing that.



Um....yes there is. Get out your Physics 101 text. Friction force is
equal to (weight) x (coefficient of friction). It's independent of
surface area. And since ski and snowboard bases are made out of the
same materials (ptex) the coefficient of friction is the same.


Yeah, well physics 101 is... inadequate usually, to explain the real
world. If the coefficient of friction is all there is to it, then
explain why drag racers use big, wide tires. Seems they could save a
lot of money using small skinny ones if that simple formula held true
all the time.

How snowboards and skis interact with the snow surface is probably more
fluid dynamics than anything else. It's complex, and I don't claim to
know much about it other than it can't be reduced to a coefficient of
friction and the weight bearing down on it.

Neil

 




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