Alpine bindings on Telemark skis?

Sven Golly wrote:
VtSkier wrote in :


To lessen this effect, I'm a FIRM believer in active AFD
devices. So far, only Marker and Tyrolia (and maybe Atomic)
have devices that I feel comfortable with. Every body else
cheaps out with teflon devices which can accumulate dirt
and not work as advertised, but plenty good enough for
newish alpine boots.


Active AFD's are much better than static ones. Atomic bindings have sort
of an active AFD as well.

FWIW, Dynafit AT bindings release rotating from the ball of the foot are
sort of suspended by the pivot lugs so an AFD isn't as important. They're
sure nice and light.

When I've dropped down a little tree lined chute onto the top
of Ovation headwall on EasternFirm(tm) with little nubbins of
brush sticking up through, I like the ruggedness of my
Fritchie FreeRides. The Dynafits always seemed a little fragile.
Then I watched some videos of AT racers in the Alps using
Dynafit bindings.

Sven Golly wrote:
"Scott Abraham" wrote in
:


Salomon has no replacable parts?


Up until maybe three years ago, most Salomon boots didn't have replaceable
sole pads. For 2005/6, almost all come with inserts however a couple of
their shop race models and many of the entry level models still don't. My
three year old XScream 9.0 don't have replaceable sole pads.

Nice they have waked up. My 2 yo XWave 10's don't have
them either.

VtSkier wrote:
Sven Golly wrote:
"Scott Abraham" wrote in
:


Salomon has no replacable parts?


Up until maybe three years ago, most Salomon boots didn't have
replaceable sole pads. For 2005/6, almost all come with inserts
however a couple of their shop race models and many of the entry
level models still don't. My three year old XScream 9.0 don't have
replaceable sole pads.

Nice they have waked up. My 2 yo XWave 10's don't have
them either.

My x-Wave 9s didn't have them either. (1st generation x-waves). I don't
imagine I'll ever buy salomon boots again.

ant

Stephen B. wrote:
"VtSkier" wrote
SNIP

This suggests that boot sole *bottom* wear may not be
as critical as sometimes suggested. A release check will
determine the limits.

Now I wear AT boots with vibram soles a lot because I have
cause to get out of my skis and walk around a lot during
the course of a "working" ski day. The vibram sole may be
the worst thing to put between your leg and your binding.
Maybe even worse than a severely worn alpine boot sole.

To lessen this effect, I'm a FIRM believer in active AFD
devices. So far, only Marker and Tyrolia (and maybe Atomic)
have devices that I feel comfortable with. Every body else
cheaps out with teflon devices which can accumulate dirt
and not work as advertised, but plenty good enough for
newish alpine boots.

SNIP

VT,
Have you really seen Teflon strips collect dirt and grime so they stop
working? Wouldn't this same dirt and grime cause more havoc in the active
AFD devices? I am sure you have heard of the KISS principle, the Teflon
sounds allot simpler to me. I admit I have not paid attention to active AFD
devices so I would be very interested in your reasoning, and description of
them.

Stephen B.


Actually I haven't seen the dirt/grime collect on any
AFD. What I have seen is the same dirt/grime collect
on the sole of the boot. The Marker active AFD is pretty
much a bullet-proof device and doesn't seem to be
affected by much of anything. The rolling rubber band
of the Tyrolia system could conceivably get grit in it
in a way that may affect its function.

And, btw, I didn't say "stop working". That's an exaggeration
of the situation. In fact, in a good old yard sale type of
a high-speed crash you probably wouldn't even know if
your AFD's were dirty or not. The situation where there
might be a problem would be in a slow-speed twisting fall
which might be complicated by your weight being forward
and putting extra weight on you AFD. This is a knee-
damaging type of fall.

One of the things Salomon has tried to do for this type of
fall is to make an AFD that when it senses extra weight,
the pressure needed to release the toe becomes less. Or
so we are told.

Sven Golly wrote:
"Stephen B." wrote in
k.net:


Have you really seen Teflon strips collect dirt and grime so they stop
working? Wouldn't this same dirt and grime cause more havoc in the
active AFD devices? I am sure you have heard of the KISS principle,
the Teflon sounds allot simpler to me.


It's simpler but not to any big advantage since "active" AFD's are pretty
simple themselves. They use bearings or rollers to allow the boot to move
sideways even with heavy downward pressure. Teflon pads produce a fair
amount of friction when the downward pressure goes up.

Even with dirt/grime in the active AFD, the boot will move more easily
than any Teflon pad.

OBRetroSki: One of the first active AFD's was the old Lipe Slider circa
early 70's. Basically it was a synthetic rubber band wrapped around a
small metal casting with some silcon grease. They never failed unless the
band broke which was pretty rare.

I'm even more retro than that (how retro are you?).
The original Marker Simplex toe had a sheet of aluminum (ok aluminium)
in back of the toe which was fastened with a single screw at the
back of the sheet and allowed to "float" up near the toe. The
purpose of this was to move laterally when the boot sole moved
in relation to the toe piece to keep friction from hindering the
first quarter inch of release function.

Patrollers in the day hated Markers and were required to have
release bindings. They were scared to death of coming out with a
sled behind. Some tightened the adjustment screw down really really
hard. A heavy guy I knew went to far as to replace the spring with
a solid steel rod against the ball-bearing of the release
mechanism.

ant wrote:
VtSkier wrote:


Ah yes, sole wear. A number of boots have replaceable parts or
complete toe and heel pieces. Many of the SureFoot boots have
this feature of complete toe/heel replacement. A few other
brands have a replaceable wear plate. Some, most notably
Salomon, have no replaceable parts.


Jeez I hope my Atomics soles are replaceable, as they are completely rooted.
I have had 2 full sesaons on them; in Oz the walk to/from the locker room
was mainly over snow, in the US it was a longish hike across the village. in
my last couple of weeks, I grabbed the boots off the boot dryer by their
heels, and the black parts moved! They are screwed on so I'm assuming they
are replaceable.

I never got to test my bindings' release capabilities this season, somewhat
to my shame.

ant

If you remember your Mt.Snow days, release function check is an
ASC policy requirement. I *know* my AT boots won't check properly
so I get checks done with alpine gear, submit the paperwork and
merrily ski on what I want to ski on.

VtSkier wrote:

Patrollers in the day hated Markers and were required to have
release bindings. They were scared to death of coming out with a
sled behind. Some tightened the adjustment screw down really really
hard. A heavy guy I knew went to far as to replace the spring with
a solid steel rod against the ball-bearing of the release
mechanism.

People keep saying Markers have stopped doing what they "used" to do so I
let a mate put some on the last pair of stocklis I got. har. They spat me
out 2nd time I rode them. I don't know what the problem is, I assume I
footsteer too much, but in the US, psia trainers say I tend to park and
ride. Either way, Markers are poison, turn and fly (face first).

ant

I just looked at my Salomon 1080's and they have replaceable sol pieces .
Mine aren't too worn but I guess i'll replace them soon . These are only my
3rd pair of boots but I couldn't be happier with the comfort of these boots
.. They always feel comfortable , never gave me an ounce of foot pain
anywhere . I can ski in them all day without having to loosen the buckles to
rest my feet . Your mileage may vary
Ron



Salomon has no replacable parts?


Up until maybe three years ago, most Salomon boots didn't have
replaceable sole pads. For 2005/6, almost all come with inserts
however a couple of their shop race models and many of the entry
level models still don't. My three year old XScream 9.0 don't have
replaceable sole pads.

Nice they have waked up. My 2 yo XWave 10's don't have
them either.

My x-Wave 9s didn't have them either. (1st generation x-waves). I don't
imagine I'll ever buy salomon boots again.

ant

Ron - NY wrote:
I just looked at my Salomon 1080's and they have replaceable sol pieces .
Mine aren't too worn but I guess i'll replace them soon . These are only my
3rd pair of boots but I couldn't be happier with the comfort of these boots
. They always feel comfortable , never gave me an ounce of foot pain
anywhere . I can ski in them all day without having to loosen the buckles to
rest my feet . Your mileage may vary
Ron

I wouldn't replace them out of hand. I'd have the shop measure
the amount of wear when doing a release check, and if the wear
is in parameters, don't replace until they begin to show
"excessive" wear. Also, if you walk a lot in your boots consider
investing in a pair of "cat tracks". Your shop will know the name.

Salomon has no replacable parts?

Up until maybe three years ago, most Salomon boots didn't have
replaceable sole pads. For 2005/6, almost all come with inserts
however a couple of their shop race models and many of the entry
level models still don't. My three year old XScream 9.0 don't have
replaceable sole pads.

Nice they have waked up. My 2 yo XWave 10's don't have
them either.

My x-Wave 9s didn't have them either. (1st generation x-waves). I don't
imagine I'll ever buy salomon boots again.

ant

....
Ron - NY wrote:
I just looked at my Salomon 1080's and they have replaceable sol pieces .
Mine aren't too worn but I guess i'll replace them soon . These are only
my 3rd pair of boots but I couldn't be happier with the comfort of these
boots . They always feel comfortable , never gave me an ounce of foot
pain anywhere . I can ski in them all day without having to loosen the
buckles to rest my feet . Your mileage may vary
Ron

I wouldn't replace them out of hand. I'd have the shop measure
the amount of wear when doing a release check, and if the wear
is in parameters, don't replace until they begin to show
"excessive" wear. Also, if you walk a lot in your boots consider
investing in a pair of "cat tracks". Your shop will know the name.


Yep , I've heard of those . I always ski midweek so I guess another fringe
benefit is closer parking . Even though I love my boots I might consider
replacing them by the time those heel pieces wear out , but then again maybe
not . But this leads me to thinking about something else , what the longest
( or maybe I should say oldest ) you kept a pair of boots ? I don't mean in
the closet , I mean still using ?
Ron