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#21
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"H.W. Stockman" wrote My right foot still doesn't always move as predicted, so I've learned to use my left foot to lead in many tight situations. Now I have to do the same thing with skiing motions, particularly the fast motions in turns. I'll find a way. Be aware that you can turn either direction from a telemark position. We think of the turn as being away from the lead ski, but if you've got the edges working right you can turn toward the lead ski as well. I had one clinic instructor who telemarked trees, linking tight turns, without changing leads. He said it was quicker to turn against the lead than to change leads. [For him maybe -- I only do that out on wide open slopes as a way of practicing edge control.] Tommy T. |
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#22
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H.W. Stockman wrote:
"Booker C. Bense" bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Feb.17.05@telemark. slac.stanford.edu wrote in message ... [...] _ As for the original poster, you might try poking around ebay or garage sales for a Nordic Track trainer. Here's what I mean http://tinyurl.com/49blg _ You can get them used fairly cheap and they do provide a good ski specific workout. I wasn't specific enough in stating what I wanted. I don't have any problem with a diamond glide; I am much more interested in regaining turning skills so I can ski down a slope amid trees without as great a chance of serious injury. I'm aerobically fit; as I said, I routinely run 10 miles at a shot, and more important, I do one tiring hike over very rough, trailless territory each week (usually with class 3 or 4 rock). In fact, the latter activity makes a lot of people think that I am being overly cautious about skiing. (me, me, me: http://hwstock.org/bp/html/Traverse.htm http://hwstock.org/dams/html/DSCN6660.htm http://hwstock.org/bripi/html/FlyingHarlan.htm ) But my affliction requires lots of specific training so I can learn to replace cerebellar control with cerebral control. This process is very inefficient (there is a reason the cerebellum, though only 10% of the brain's mass, has 60% of the neurons). I walked over 200 miles on sidewalk curbs to regain my balance; and I took every opportunity to walk over any rough surface, and I graded my hikes to successively harder and harder terrain. My right foot still doesn't always move as predicted, so I've learned to use my left foot to lead in many tight situations. Now I have to do the same thing with skiing motions, particularly the fast motions in turns. I'll find a way. Thanks all, sincerely, for your help; this discussion has given me food for thought. Is there anything like Vermont Adaptive Sports near where you are? They run adaptive ski programs for anyone afflicted with anything which requires special consideration from a leg that doesn't work quite well to blindness. There are programs at Pico, Ascutney (I think they still have a program) and Sugarbush that I know of in Vermont and I'm sure there are programs in other states. My guess is that you need someone to show you drills on skis that will get your brain talking to your leg again, like you did walking curbs to help regain your balance. VtSkier |
#23
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Booker C. Bense wrote:
_ All I have to say is that neither England or the USA are noted for their dominance in any kind of XC racing never mind classic. First, don't go around saying "England" when you mean "Britain" or "UK", eventually you'll /really/ get someone miffed... ;-) But beyond that, though we don't win any medals that doesn't mean that BASI folk don't know what they're talking about, and they go and get their teaching in Norway, which /does/ have something of a history in the sport... Further, the way to /really/ screw technique is with a Nordic Track machine! ;-/ Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
#24
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Ken Roberts wrote:
If I know a pretty tour that's mostly flat and gentle, I prefer to wait until a day when the snow is pretty firm, and then _skate_ most of it on very-light skating skis. If you have the luxury of waiting close to something, an attractive option. That doesn't really work in Scotland, where you can lose all the cover overnight, or in Norway, where I have to book my holiday some time in advance! But also the case on a hut to hut tour with a fair sized pack that the requirement of skating to sustain glide the whole time can make it just too tiring over several hours. For training endurance and speed of specific leg muscles for flat backcountry skiing, Yes I can see value in Classic rollerskis -- but that raises the question of: ? traditional roller skates ("quad" skates) versus ? Classic rollerskis which I've never seen debated. I'd guess you're better off in something where your feet flex the same way, but in any case I've never seen trad rollers with a freewheel: you skated them from side to side too, IM(limited)E of them. My theory is that nordic instructors are unconsciously against inline skates because they're afraid that if people found it how much easy fun they could be having moving on their feet, the demand for techniques and character-building tours of one-dimensional skiing on snow would drop. My theory is that while that /may/ be applied to journeymen in ESF, you don't know the friends I'm talking about well enough to extend that generalisation to them... Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
#25
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
In article , Peter Clinch wrote: Booker C. Bense wrote: _ All I have to say is that neither England or the USA are noted for their dominance in any kind of XC racing never mind classic. First, don't go around saying "England" when you mean "Britain" or "UK", eventually you'll /really/ get someone miffed... ;-) _ Sorry. But beyond that, though we don't win any medals that doesn't mean that BASI folk don't know what they're talking about, _ If they recommend using roller skis for classic technique then they don't know what they're talking about. I don't know about ski instructors in Britain, but in the USA for both Alpine and XC, the professional instruction organizations are notorious for "Preaching the Way" rather than looking at results. You advance by swallowing the koolaid and following the PSIA way... and they go and get their teaching in Norway, which /does/ have something of a history in the sport... _ Show me where Norwegians recommend roller skis for classic technique. It only took a brief google to find this. http://www.xcskiworld.com/training/rollerguide.htm and I quote. "Note: Most international class skiers rarely practice diagonal technique on roller skis. When they use "classic" technique on roller skis they primarily double pole and double pole kick. When you do see top skiers striding you must keep in mind the physical and technical base these skiers have developed over years of training. Bottomline: Until you know what a good diagonal kick should feel like, try to stick with double pole and especially double pole kick when classic rolling." Further, the way to /really/ screw technique is with a Nordic Track machine! ;-/ _ I've only used them a couple times in the gym when they were popular, but they seemed to be a fairly reasonable workout. Perhaps I'm mis-remembering, but I thought that they would slip if you didn't shift weight properly. But they probably do mess with technique in the same way as roller skis. _ Booker C. Bense -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBQhYydmTWTAjn5N/lAQHfswQAqjC/aXwe9MY/tGX4ChwD/xKhhM+MSTuL WeHuQrnpEgUlGKC2D2Fa3SgGuKecT7UB6l/C22fuJLpxDgc/cho6bVmcnbGdMiui AILrVBEFbXn0mRVipASRfaomZ62N2kQzFvfOowwXUiH9v1x0rx dBzFi0YHTinACe LFCp7OZOgGY= =AEyj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#26
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Booker C. Bense wrote:
_ If they recommend using roller skis for classic technique then they don't know what they're talking about. I don't know about ski instructors in Britain, but in the USA for both Alpine and XC, the professional instruction organizations are notorious for "Preaching the Way" rather than looking at results. You advance by swallowing the koolaid and following the PSIA way... I can only speak about (and not for) the ones I personally know, but my main point of reference looks at his personal results rather than getting too stuck on the official "way", and has often been at odds with the "official" line on, for example, tele instruction, which has as it happens subsequently come round to his point of view with subsequent development within BASI. Leading tours, another string on his bow, is about having your clients have a good time, and he gets repeat business and good feedback from experienced skiers. I don't think this is the sort of thing that happens if you just spout the official party line on how to ski well. Same man also bucks the trend in paddle coaching, incorporating lots of open boat techniques for sea kayaks and that certainly isn't on the syllabus. It does work though... _ Show me where Norwegians recommend roller skis for classic technique. It only took a brief google to find this. "Note: Most international class skiers rarely practice diagonal technique on roller skis. When they use "classic" technique on roller skis they primarily double pole and double pole kick. When you do see top skiers striding you must keep in mind the physical and technical base these skiers have developed over years of training. Bottomline: Until you know what a good diagonal kick should feel like, try to stick with double pole and especially double pole kick when classic rolling." I think this is misleading, because serious classic athletes are likely to use those some double pole and double pole kicks rather than a diagonal stride on the snow in any case: they are using the rollers to practice what they need to practice on the snow, which was rather my point. Also, using the above to discourage roller use ignores the fact that a potential roller skier may well actually know what a good diagonal kick should feel like, so the quote itself exempts such a person from taking its advice. _ I've only used them a couple times in the gym when they were popular, but they seemed to be a fairly reasonable workout. Perhaps I'm mis-remembering, but I thought that they would slip if you didn't shift weight properly. But they probably do mess with technique in the same way as roller skis. IM(limited)E of them if you get your weight forwards, up over the "gliding" ski, then your feet disappear backwards from underneath you. I had to keep my weight centred between my two feet (that's along the axis of the skis, not the axis of my hips when facing straight ahead). Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
#27
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Booker C. Bense wrote:
_ If they recommend using roller skis for classic technique then they don't know what they're talking about. And following up again, note I'm not trying to suggest classic rollering will make you a benchmark classic skier, but it /should/ do better for your technique and specific muscle tuning than a pair of blades or a Nordic Track machine will for covering ground in straight lines without gravity backup on skis. Getting onto what top professional track racers do and don't use is rather going beyond this point, I think it's fair to say. The pal I've previously alluded to will be leading a tour out in Norway next week, carrying a heavy pack as tour leader with all sorts of emergency spares in. The sort of pack that means he won't be getting the sort of glides and weight transfer he'd expect on his track gear, but he's rollering for fitness buildup because it works the right muscles in the right ways, according to his direct and considerable experience. That is what I meant with "more ski specific workout". Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
#28
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[ Booker C. Bense ]
_ All I have to say is that neither England or the USA are noted for their dominance in any kind of XC racing never mind classic. I'm not really into training theory and what the athletes do, but you certainly see a fair number of roller skis on Norwegian roads in summer. (Yeah, late reply -- been away skiing in the Alps :-) Martin -- "An ideal world is left as an exercise to the reader." -Paul Graham, On Lisp |
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