why hardboots?

Given that I'm fairly happy with the way I can handle groomers on my Carbon Circle
(thinking about Channel Titanium for the next season, just need to find one on sale) ,
in my softboot/strap binding setup, what's in it for me in a hardboot setup?

Usually I ride "the whole mountain", maybe with some variations based on
weather/snow conditions. If there's lots of powder I'd go for steeps, chutes,
trees. If it's icy I'd be carving up groomed blue/black runs. If it's something
in the middle, I'd be doing all that plus steep moguls. I'm also always on a
lookout for a good natural kicker (Baker and Whistler/Blackomb are goldmines!).

I guess the extreme carving thing will entertain me for a day or two, but then
I'll get bored with it 'cause it's not challenging enough and there seems to be
not a lot of space to progress into.

Given all that, would you recommend trying a hardboot setup? If yes, do you
also recommend getting a racing stick, or I can just use my existing board?


Oh yea, another related question: why are step-in bindings so unpopular?
It seems like they have the advantage of easy mounting once off the lift, plus
I would imagine the whole setup is a bit lighter and also potentially more rigid
than the usual strap binding setup. So why is it that most good riders stick
with either strap bindings or hardboots?


PS: the last Sunday was the first day I've tried to ride in the rain. It was fun for the
first hour or so. Myself an me friend were just about the only ones riding the back
side on Stevens. Everything seemd like a slow-motion movie, as if we were
riding on wet sand or something like that. Very weird. Oh yea, Arcteryx Minuteman
Gore-Tex XCR pants and Salomon Somatic jacket are the **** - I was completely
dry after three hours out in the pouring rain, well worth the $320 I paid for both.
Gotta love the end-of-season sales..

"Dmitry" wrote in message
news:bQx3c.224701$uV3.944767@attbi_s51...

PS: the last Sunday was the first day I've tried to ride in the rain. It
was fun for the
first hour or so. Myself an me friend were just about the only ones riding
the back
side on Stevens. Everything seemd like a slow-motion movie, as if we were
riding on wet sand or something like that. Very weird. Oh yea, Arcteryx
Minuteman
Gore-Tex XCR pants and Salomon Somatic jacket are the **** - I was
completely
dry after three hours out in the pouring rain, well worth the $320 I paid
for both.
Gotta love the end-of-season sales..

Should have been there Saturday - while the crowds were worse the snow was
MUCH better!! I checked the report Sunday and it was 41 degrees and
raining - yuck....

Check out www.bomberonline.com, lots of hardboot info there, some
tutorials and introductions to the discipline, good active msg board.

As to the step-ins, I used clicker stepins for a while, but they
tended to clog on heavy snow so I gave up on them.

[...] would you recommend trying a hardboot setup? If yes, do you
also recommend getting a racing stick, or I can just use my existing board?

Well if you're happy with what you can do, and not regularly getting
burned by guys on hard boots, then I'm not sure you'd really want to
change. It takes a while to get up to steam on alternative tech.

For me the progression to hard gear was driven by a need for greater
responsiveness.

I don't do the "extreme" carving thing either - it looks kind of weird
to me. Everything else you list is on mine too.


[...] another related question: why are step-in bindings so unpopular?

I can't answer for the side-slipping crowd. They're not unpopular with
hard booters (Intec) or powder hounds (mostly clickers). For me
rigidity of the Intec system is why I use it.


Riding in the rain: I thought you had to be English to enjoy that.

Phil

"phil" wrote

[...] would you recommend trying a hardboot setup? If yes, do you
also recommend getting a racing stick, or I can just use my existing board?

Well if you're happy with what you can do, and not regularly getting
burned by guys on hard boots, then I'm not sure you'd really want to
change. It takes a while to get up to steam on alternative tech.

What do you mean by "getting burned"? Frankly, I rarely see snowboarders
in places where I suck and could learn a lot (moguls and steeps), other than
the kids scraping it down on their asses sometimes. Even Baker doesn't
really yield a lot of good role models to look up to - everybody is either
in the park or on easier runs looking for jumps.

For me the progression to hard gear was driven by a need for greater
responsiveness.

This makes sense, I'd like some more edge control too.

Riding in the rain: I thought you had to be English to enjoy that.

Well, because good gear takes care of the "getting soaked" element,
it was fun because it was quite a bit different and usual. I wouldn't want
to do it again though.

Dmitry wrote:

What do you mean by "getting burned"? Frankly, I rarely see snowboarders
in places where I suck and could learn a lot (moguls and steeps), other than
the kids scraping it down on their asses sometimes.

You'd see me there, if we were riding the same hill, and I ride hard
boots. My hard boots are relatively soft ones (Raichle 224, not sure
what the current equivalent is, used to know). I also use an
all-mountain deck, which is wider at 21.5 cm than the race set-ups a lot
of guys use. It's also quite a bit softer. I used to use an Asym Air
with plates, which is an older stiff Burton free-ride board with a 25 cm
waist. I haven't tried a soft setup in 10 years, so they may have
improved - but people keep telling me they get foot pain and they're
unresponsive, so maybe they haven't improved enough. One bonus with
hard boots - step-ins that work really well.

My personal belief is that for the sort of riding you like to do, hard
boots would work very well so long as you have a fairly wide deck and
keep the angles lower (under 50). I think trying to wrangle moguls or
steeps with 60 degree angles is probably not that good an idea, but I'm
sure there's somebody out there killing it in those conditions.

Neil

You've got a fairly stiff freeride board, so it would probably make
sense to try hard boots on that before buying a dedicated alpine board.
Alpine boards are a serious rush though.

Try strapping some ski boots, either your own or some rentals, into your
bindings, might not fit too well, but if you take a couple runs like that,
you'll get a bit of an idea if you like the feeling...

Try strapping some ski boots, either your own or some rentals, into your
bindings, might not fit too well, but if you take a couple runs like that,
you'll get a bit of an idea if you like the feeling...

AsaaraAgain,

Have you actually tried that?

I haven't but I have a pretty good idea that that it would feel nothing like
a hard boot setup that included plate bindings. I'll assume that implicit
in your recommendation would be to set upo the strap bindings in stance that
is more akin to what someone would normally use in hard boots. Even so,
that doesn't change the fact that there would not be enough lateral support
to simulate actual hard booting.

I'm recommeding agsint this because I think it would turn whoever tried it
off from hard booting. Even if they might have liked a setup that included
plate bindings.

Mike T

"Neil Gendzwill" wrote

My personal belief is that for the sort of riding you like to do, hard
boots would work very well so long as you have a fairly wide deck and
keep the angles lower (under 50). I think trying to wrangle moguls or
steeps with 60 degree angles is probably not that good an idea, but I'm
sure there's somebody out there killing it in those conditions.

Under 50 being a lower angle and 21cm being a "fairly wide" board
seems a bit scary, but looks like I'll gonna have to try hardboots. Well
done and thanks for sharing to everybody who replied, I'm almost convinced.

Dmitry wrote:
"Neil Gendzwill" wrote


My personal belief is that for the sort of riding you like to do, hard
boots would work very well so long as you have a fairly wide deck and
keep the angles lower (under 50). I think trying to wrangle moguls or
steeps with 60 degree angles is probably not that good an idea, but I'm
sure there's somebody out there killing it in those conditions.


Under 50 being a lower angle and 21cm being a "fairly wide" board
seems a bit scary, but looks like I'll gonna have to try hardboots. Well
done and thanks for sharing to everybody who replied, I'm almost convinced.

When I rode hardboots on a freeride board (25 cm waist), I used 35
degree angles. Now that I'm on an all-mountain board, it's 45. You
don't have to go to a narrower waist, but you should absolutely go to
steeper angles. Unless you're already at 30 plus in softies.

I've got a 200 Tanker coming, it has a 24.5 cm waist so I'm guessing
I'll be at 35 or 40 on it. I'll let you know how that works out.

Neil