glycogen/protein replenishment (was lifting and sleeping )

This may be mutating this thread a bit, but I saw this
posted on another newsgroup shortly after I posted
something mentioning the role of carbohydrates and
protein in recorvery (e.g., after-workout recovery
drinks). It also refers to the mechanism behind the
post exercise glycogen replacement "window" that I
mentioned previously.

This is from the medical/dietary consultant for the
company that makes Hammer Gel and other products (so
it's probably worth more than my advice). Just
thought it was interesting...

Chris

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:10:06 -0000
From: "Dr. Bill Misner Ph.D."

Subject: From SE to Recoverite Protein:Carb
Post-Workout

Research supports the concept for utilizing 4 parts
carbohydrate to 1
part protein during the 120-minute
window-of-opportunity in order to
exogenously impact lean muscle mass growth and
glycogen restorage.
Shortly after Ivy and Burke and several others
specified results with
a 4:1 ratio, a patented product was then marketed.
Another research
paper using elderly subjects in a strength exercise
(weights) found
conclusively that when these subjects lifted weights 3

days per week
and consumed 1 part carbohydrate to 1 part protein,
they positively
achieved lean muscle mass growth gains. This later
study skews the
conclusion of the former calling for the question of
what ratio
protein to carbohydrate best supports lean muscle mass

growth and
glycogen restorage post-depletion workout. In other
words, research
is inconclusively leaning toward the 4:1 ratio, but
has not excluded
the 3:1 or 5:1 ratio's due to not having studied them
as much as the
patented 4:1 ratio. This leaves me with the opinion
that as far as
conclusive research data go, the jury is still out
waiting for more
papers to be published on other ratio values.

An endurance exercise session lasting more than 3
hours depletes
muscle glycogen and likely cannibolizes around 50-60
grams of lean
muscle proteins, and probably around 500-600 grams
glycogen which
should be replaced. The total dietary replacement
ratio then is at
least 10:1 Carbs:Pro. Since the glycogen synthase
enzyme released
during glycogen depletion has a short half life
effective for 90-120
minutes, but most effectively available at 30 minutes
post exercise,
it behoves us (according to Colgan, Costill, Noakes,
Hawley, Ivy etc)
to drive replacement proteins on the insulin-glycogen
synthase train
for effective maximal replacement. If you try to
replace all the
glycogen in one or two meals spaced an hour appart
with all the
protein, too much carbohydrate in one meal will
produce excess
adipose fatty acid storage. Cutting the carbs down to
small dose will
produce the insulin and provide maximum storage rate
for the protein
fraction delivery into the muscle cell for the lean
muscle mass
rebuilding process. Replacing all of the 70-90 minutes

glycogen
stores may actually require a 3-day taper with
frequent carbohydrate
snack/meal intake.

The 3:1 carbohydraterotein post-exercise protocol is

rational for
the endurance athlete, especially if lean muscle mass
recovery is the
objective. Adding 1 more part carbohydrate raises the
carbohydrate
component(to 4:1) and may be beneficial for athletes
who are free
from carbohydrate-induced fat weight. Of the two
ratio's, 3:1 or 4:1,
the low-carb Recoverite [a Hammer Nutrition product]
appears to be favorable for
endurance lean
muscle gain than the 4:1 higher carb patented formula.

Recoverite is
formulated for your convenience. Altering the formula
in any
direction toward more protein or more carbohydrate
should be
monitored by fat weight gain and lean muscle mass gain

accordingly.

Since we saw the research that showed positive lean
muscle mass
growth in older subjects using 1:1 Carb:Pro recovery
refueling, our
opinion is that the lower carbohydrate version is
superior to the
higher carbohydrate version. Younger athletes with
higher Basal
Metabolic Rate, however, can "get by" with consuming
higher
carbohydrate calories than those of us over age
35...and counting.







__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
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It may be mutating a bit, but a pleasant diversion (in my opinion)
from Potter's musings. (Friendly rib Jeff)

The post is correct, that the literature has not nailed down a
specific ratio of CHOrotein for optimal recovery. Part of this is
the nature of the exercise bouts used to study this issue, and the
definition of recovery. If you are purely concerned with glycogen
resynthesis, you probably would want a higher CHOrotein ratio,
whereas, if you are concerned with protein recovery (whatever that
means) you would want a slightly lower ratio. Another thing that
confuses the issue is the type of protein. It may not be protein per
se that is important for recovery, but amino acids, specifically
essential amino acids. For example, when looking at both protein
synthesis, and glycogen synthesis, in different studies Wolfe's group
has shown that as little as 4 g of essential amino acids can be as
effective as 20 g of whole protein at stimulating glycogen resynthesis
and/or protein synthesis. Additionally, consuming one meal
immediately following a workout, is not sufficient to sustain
recovery. Multiple meals given within a 4 h window are more
effective. This is a rather large topic I will leave for now.

Thanks for the post.
Steve

(Chris Cline) wrote in message oo.com...
This may be mutating this thread a bit, but I saw this
posted on another newsgroup shortly after I posted
something mentioning the role of carbohydrates and
protein in recorvery (e.g., after-workout recovery
drinks). It also refers to the mechanism behind the
post exercise glycogen replacement "window" that I
mentioned previously.

This is from the medical/dietary consultant for the
company that makes Hammer Gel and other products (so
it's probably worth more than my advice). Just
thought it was interesting...

Chris

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:10:06 -0000
From: "Dr. Bill Misner Ph.D."

Subject: From SE to Recoverite Protein:Carb
Post-Workout

Research supports the concept for utilizing 4 parts
carbohydrate to 1
part protein during the 120-minute
window-of-opportunity in order to
exogenously impact lean muscle mass growth and
glycogen restorage.
Shortly after Ivy and Burke and several others
specified results with
a 4:1 ratio, a patented product was then marketed.
Another research
paper using elderly subjects in a strength exercise
(weights) found
conclusively that when these subjects lifted weights 3

days per week
and consumed 1 part carbohydrate to 1 part protein,
they positively
achieved lean muscle mass growth gains. This later
study skews the
conclusion of the former calling for the question of
what ratio
protein to carbohydrate best supports lean muscle mass

growth and
glycogen restorage post-depletion workout. In other
words, research
is inconclusively leaning toward the 4:1 ratio, but
has not excluded
the 3:1 or 5:1 ratio's due to not having studied them
as much as the
patented 4:1 ratio. This leaves me with the opinion
that as far as
conclusive research data go, the jury is still out
waiting for more
papers to be published on other ratio values.

An endurance exercise session lasting more than 3
hours depletes
muscle glycogen and likely cannibolizes around 50-60
grams of lean
muscle proteins, and probably around 500-600 grams
glycogen which
should be replaced. The total dietary replacement
ratio then is at
least 10:1 Carbs:Pro. Since the glycogen synthase
enzyme released
during glycogen depletion has a short half life
effective for 90-120
minutes, but most effectively available at 30 minutes
post exercise,
it behoves us (according to Colgan, Costill, Noakes,
Hawley, Ivy etc)
to drive replacement proteins on the insulin-glycogen
synthase train
for effective maximal replacement. If you try to
replace all the
glycogen in one or two meals spaced an hour appart
with all the
protein, too much carbohydrate in one meal will
produce excess
adipose fatty acid storage. Cutting the carbs down to
small dose will
produce the insulin and provide maximum storage rate
for the protein
fraction delivery into the muscle cell for the lean
muscle mass
rebuilding process. Replacing all of the 70-90 minutes

glycogen
stores may actually require a 3-day taper with
frequent carbohydrate
snack/meal intake.

The 3:1 carbohydraterotein post-exercise protocol is

rational for
the endurance athlete, especially if lean muscle mass
recovery is the
objective. Adding 1 more part carbohydrate raises the
carbohydrate
component(to 4:1) and may be beneficial for athletes
who are free
from carbohydrate-induced fat weight. Of the two
ratio's, 3:1 or 4:1,
the low-carb Recoverite [a Hammer Nutrition product]
appears to be favorable for
endurance lean
muscle gain than the 4:1 higher carb patented formula.

Recoverite is
formulated for your convenience. Altering the formula
in any
direction toward more protein or more carbohydrate
should be
monitored by fat weight gain and lean muscle mass gain

accordingly.

Since we saw the research that showed positive lean
muscle mass
growth in older subjects using 1:1 Carb:Pro recovery
refueling, our
opinion is that the lower carbohydrate version is
superior to the
higher carbohydrate version. Younger athletes with
higher Basal
Metabolic Rate, however, can "get by" with consuming
higher
carbohydrate calories than those of us over age
35...and counting.







__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

According to the latest newsletter from Peak Performance
http://www.pponline.co.uk/ , the post-recovery glycogen window of
opportunity is a bit of a myth. Evidence suggests that the body is
primed to refresh muscle glycogen for several days after glycogen
depleting exercise, so there should be no real panic about gorging
immediately after a race.
I've been experimenting with a cheap home-brew recovery concoction
consisting of a package of Carnation Instant Breakfast, soymilk,
bananas, blueberries and some good Quebecois yogurt thrown in for
"bite" and texture. I think the CHOrotein ratios are in the ballpark
and it's cheap. I did a 2 hour run Sunday, a 100k bike ride Monday,
and was able to do a 2 hour run the next day without any problems. I
don't usually do overdistance workouts on consecutive days but this
was an experiment and I was on holidays so I could nap after the
workouts...

(Steve McGregor) wrote in message . com...
It may be mutating a bit, but a pleasant diversion (in my opinion)
from Potter's musings. (Friendly rib Jeff)

The post is correct, that the literature has not nailed down a
specific ratio of CHOrotein for optimal recovery. Part of this is
the nature of the exercise bouts used to study this issue, and the
definition of recovery. If you are purely concerned with glycogen
resynthesis, you probably would want a higher CHOrotein ratio,
whereas, if you are concerned with protein recovery (whatever that
means) you would want a slightly lower ratio. Another thing that
confuses the issue is the type of protein. It may not be protein per
se that is important for recovery, but amino acids, specifically
essential amino acids. For example, when looking at both protein
synthesis, and glycogen synthesis, in different studies Wolfe's group
has shown that as little as 4 g of essential amino acids can be as
effective as 20 g of whole protein at stimulating glycogen resynthesis
and/or protein synthesis. Additionally, consuming one meal
immediately following a workout, is not sufficient to sustain
recovery. Multiple meals given within a 4 h window are more
effective. This is a rather large topic I will leave for now.

Thanks for the post.
Steve

(Chris Cline) wrote in message oo.com...
This may be mutating this thread a bit, but I saw this
posted on another newsgroup shortly after I posted
something mentioning the role of carbohydrates and
protein in recorvery (e.g., after-workout recovery
drinks). It also refers to the mechanism behind the
post exercise glycogen replacement "window" that I
mentioned previously.

This is from the medical/dietary consultant for the
company that makes Hammer Gel and other products (so
it's probably worth more than my advice). Just
thought it was interesting...

Chris

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:10:06 -0000
From: "Dr. Bill Misner Ph.D."

Subject: From SE to Recoverite Protein:Carb
Post-Workout

Research supports the concept for utilizing 4 parts
carbohydrate to 1
part protein during the 120-minute
window-of-opportunity in order to
exogenously impact lean muscle mass growth and
glycogen restorage.
Shortly after Ivy and Burke and several others
specified results with
a 4:1 ratio, a patented product was then marketed.
Another research
paper using elderly subjects in a strength exercise
(weights) found
conclusively that when these subjects lifted weights 3

days per week
and consumed 1 part carbohydrate to 1 part protein,
they positively
achieved lean muscle mass growth gains. This later
study skews the
conclusion of the former calling for the question of
what ratio
protein to carbohydrate best supports lean muscle mass

growth and
glycogen restorage post-depletion workout. In other
words, research
is inconclusively leaning toward the 4:1 ratio, but
has not excluded
the 3:1 or 5:1 ratio's due to not having studied them
as much as the
patented 4:1 ratio. This leaves me with the opinion
that as far as
conclusive research data go, the jury is still out
waiting for more
papers to be published on other ratio values.

An endurance exercise session lasting more than 3
hours depletes
muscle glycogen and likely cannibolizes around 50-60
grams of lean
muscle proteins, and probably around 500-600 grams
glycogen which
should be replaced. The total dietary replacement
ratio then is at
least 10:1 Carbs:Pro. Since the glycogen synthase
enzyme released
during glycogen depletion has a short half life
effective for 90-120
minutes, but most effectively available at 30 minutes
post exercise,
it behoves us (according to Colgan, Costill, Noakes,
Hawley, Ivy etc)
to drive replacement proteins on the insulin-glycogen
synthase train
for effective maximal replacement. If you try to
replace all the
glycogen in one or two meals spaced an hour appart
with all the
protein, too much carbohydrate in one meal will
produce excess
adipose fatty acid storage. Cutting the carbs down to
small dose will
produce the insulin and provide maximum storage rate
for the protein
fraction delivery into the muscle cell for the lean
muscle mass
rebuilding process. Replacing all of the 70-90 minutes

glycogen
stores may actually require a 3-day taper with
frequent carbohydrate
snack/meal intake.

The 3:1 carbohydraterotein post-exercise protocol is

rational for
the endurance athlete, especially if lean muscle mass
recovery is the
objective. Adding 1 more part carbohydrate raises the
carbohydrate
component(to 4:1) and may be beneficial for athletes
who are free
from carbohydrate-induced fat weight. Of the two
ratio's, 3:1 or 4:1,
the low-carb Recoverite [a Hammer Nutrition product]
appears to be favorable for
endurance lean
muscle gain than the 4:1 higher carb patented formula.

Recoverite is
formulated for your convenience. Altering the formula
in any
direction toward more protein or more carbohydrate
should be
monitored by fat weight gain and lean muscle mass gain

accordingly.

Since we saw the research that showed positive lean
muscle mass
growth in older subjects using 1:1 Carb:Pro recovery
refueling, our
opinion is that the lower carbohydrate version is
superior to the
higher carbohydrate version. Younger athletes with
higher Basal
Metabolic Rate, however, can "get by" with consuming
higher
carbohydrate calories than those of us over age
35...and counting.







__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

(Chris Pella) wrote in message . com...
According to the latest newsletter from Peak Performance
http://www.pponline.co.uk/ , the post-recovery glycogen window of
opportunity is a bit of a myth. Evidence suggests that the body is
primed to refresh muscle glycogen for several days after glycogen
depleting exercise, so there should be no real panic about gorging
immediately after a race.

Umm... no offense to peak performance, but I'm not sure what evidence
they are using to support the statement that the glycogen window is a
myth. To me, and I'm no Dave Costill, but the wealth of the
preponderance of the majority of the..... evidence argues for the
glycogen window being relatively short. Now it is likley true that
your body, and more importantly muscles, are primed to assimilate
amino acids and glucose and store them as proteins and glycogen for
several days after glycogen depletion. In fact, I don't dispute that.
It's just that there is incontravertible (sp?) evidence that it is
primed more during, and immediately following exercise for anywhere
from 15 min to 2 hours than days later. It/they are still primed more
for up to four hours than days later. Regardless, if the "primed"
state was consistent over the course of days, if I wanted to recover
sooner for the next workout, I would want to get that recovery started
as soon as possible, as opposed to waiting.

I've been experimenting with a cheap home-brew recovery concoction
consisting of a package of Carnation Instant Breakfast, soymilk,
bananas, blueberries and some good Quebecois yogurt thrown in for
"bite" and texture. I think the CHOrotein ratios are in the ballpark
and it's cheap. I did a 2 hour run Sunday, a 100k bike ride Monday,
and was able to do a 2 hour run the next day without any problems. I
don't usually do overdistance workouts on consecutive days but this
was an experiment and I was on holidays so I could nap after the
workouts...


With regard to your concoction, back in the day, I used to drink
Instant Breakfast as a supplement. I can't recall what the protein
content of it is, probably pretty low. I've already stated my take on
soy protein for recovery. That's not to say that I am anti-soy, it's
just that it is not a good protein source for recovery. There are
lots of good things in soy that would be of benefit to overall health,
but they could ingested some other time.


Steve





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
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(Steve McGregor) wrote in message . com...
(Chris Pella) wrote in message . com...
According to the latest newsletter from Peak Performance
http://www.pponline.co.uk/ , the post-recovery glycogen window of
opportunity is a bit of a myth. Evidence suggests that the body is
primed to refresh muscle glycogen for several days after glycogen
depleting exercise, so there should be no real panic about gorging
immediately after a race.

Umm... no offense to peak performance, but I'm not sure what evidence
they are using to support the statement that the glycogen window is a
myth. To me, and I'm no Dave Costill, but the wealth of the
preponderance of the majority of the..... evidence argues for the
glycogen window being relatively short. Now it is likley true that
your body, and more importantly muscles, are primed to assimilate
amino acids and glucose and store them as proteins and glycogen for
several days after glycogen depletion. In fact, I don't dispute that.
It's just that there is incontravertible (sp?) evidence that it is
primed more during, and immediately following exercise for anywhere
from 15 min to 2 hours than days later. It/they are still primed more
for up to four hours than days later. Regardless, if the "primed"
state was consistent over the course of days, if I wanted to recover
sooner for the next workout, I would want to get that recovery started
as soon as possible, as opposed to waiting.


I probably overstated the case by calling it a myth. The conclusion
they made was that "the appropriate time for post-exercise feeding
will depend largely on the time available before a subsequent bout."
In the distant past I did do a degree in genetics, so I always check
to see that the references are at least credible. If you want
scientific references, the findings are mostly based on the work of
Dr. John Holloszy.

Here is a medline snippet from his paper:

Prevention of glycogen supercompensation prolongs the increase in
muscle GLUT4 after exercise.

Garcia-Roves PM, Han DH, Song Z, Jones TE, Hucker KA, Holloszy JO.

Department of Internal Medicine, Washington University School of
Medicine, 4566 Scott Avenue, St. Louis, MO 63110, USA.

Exercise induces an increase in GLUT4 in skeletal muscle with a
proportional increase in glucose transport capacity. This adaptation
results in enhanced glycogen accumulation, i.e., "supercompensation,"
in response to carbohydrate feeding after glycogen-depleting exercise.
The increase in GLUT4 reverses within 40 h after exercise in
carbohydrate-fed rats. The purpose of this study was to determine
whether prevention of skeletal muscle glycogen supercompensation after
exercise results in maintenance of the increases in GLUT4 and the
capacity for glycogen supercompensation. Rats were exercised by means
of three daily bouts of swimming. GLUT4 mRNA was increased
approximately 3-fold and GLUT4 protein was increased approximately
2-fold 18 h in epitrochlearis muscle after exercise. These increases
in GLUT4 mRNA and protein reversed completely within 42 h after
exercise in rats fed a high-carbohydrate diet. In contrast, the
increases in GLUT4 protein, insulin-stimulated glucose transport, and
increased capacity for glycogen supercompensation persisted unchanged
for 66 h in rats fed a carbohydrate-free diet that prevented glycogen
supercompensation after exercise. GLUT4 mRNA was still elevated at 42
h but had returned to baseline by 66 h after exercise in rats fed the
carbohydrate-free diet. Glycogen-depleted rats fed carbohydrate 66 h
after exercise underwent muscle glycogen supercompensation with
concomitant reversal of the increase in GLUT4. These findings provide
evidence that prevention of glycogen supercompensation after exercise
results in persistence of exercise-induced increases in GLUT4 protein
and enhanced capacity for glycogen supercompensation




I've been experimenting with a cheap home-brew recovery concoction
consisting of a package of Carnation Instant Breakfast, soymilk,
bananas, blueberries and some good Quebecois yogurt thrown in for
"bite" and texture. I think the CHOrotein ratios are in the ballpark
and it's cheap. I did a 2 hour run Sunday, a 100k bike ride Monday,
and was able to do a 2 hour run the next day without any problems. I
don't usually do overdistance workouts on consecutive days but this
was an experiment and I was on holidays so I could nap after the
workouts...


With regard to your concoction, back in the day, I used to drink
Instant Breakfast as a supplement. I can't recall what the protein
content of it is, probably pretty low. I've already stated my take on
soy protein for recovery. That's not to say that I am anti-soy, it's
just that it is not a good protein source for recovery. There are
lots of good things in soy that would be of benefit to overall health,
but they could ingested some other time.

I'm just looking for something inexpensive that I can whip up with
readily available materials. If there is something more optimal that
is readily available without paying an arm and a leg... I'm all ears.
We have soy milk in the fridge because my wife can't tolerate milk,
that's all. I have no axe to grind for soy.
Looking at the nutritional blurb for Instant Breakfast, it says the
CHO/protein ratio is 28g/7g. My understanding is that 4:1 is what the
commercial recovery drinks are using.


Steve





__________________________________
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New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
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I probably overstated the case by calling it a myth. The conclusion
they made was that "the appropriate time for post-exercise feeding
will depend largely on the time available before a subsequent bout."
In the distant past I did do a degree in genetics, so I always check
to see that the references are at least credible. If you want
scientific references, the findings are mostly based on the work of
Dr. John Holloszy.

Here is a medline snippet from his paper:

Prevention of glycogen supercompensation prolongs the increase in
muscle GLUT4 after exercise.

Garcia-Roves PM, Han DH, Song Z, Jones TE, Hucker KA, Holloszy JO.

Department of Internal Medicine, Washington University School of
Medicine, 4566 Scott Avenue, St. Louis, MO 63110, USA.

Exercise induces an increase in GLUT4 in skeletal muscle with a
proportional increase in glucose transport capacity. This adaptation
results in enhanced glycogen accumulation, i.e., "supercompensation,"
in response to carbohydrate feeding after glycogen-depleting exercise.
The increase in GLUT4 reverses within 40 h after exercise in
carbohydrate-fed rats. The purpose of this study was to determine
whether prevention of skeletal muscle glycogen supercompensation after
exercise results in maintenance of the increases in GLUT4 and the
capacity for glycogen supercompensation. Rats were exercised by means
of three daily bouts of swimming. GLUT4 mRNA was increased
approximately 3-fold and GLUT4 protein was increased approximately
2-fold 18 h in epitrochlearis muscle after exercise. These increases
in GLUT4 mRNA and protein reversed completely within 42 h after
exercise in rats fed a high-carbohydrate diet. In contrast, the
increases in GLUT4 protein, insulin-stimulated glucose transport, and
increased capacity for glycogen supercompensation persisted unchanged
for 66 h in rats fed a carbohydrate-free diet that prevented glycogen
supercompensation after exercise. GLUT4 mRNA was still elevated at 42
h but had returned to baseline by 66 h after exercise in rats fed the
carbohydrate-free diet. Glycogen-depleted rats fed carbohydrate 66 h
after exercise underwent muscle glycogen supercompensation with
concomitant reversal of the increase in GLUT4. These findings provide
evidence that prevention of glycogen supercompensation after exercise
results in persistence of exercise-induced increases in GLUT4 protein
and enhanced capacity for glycogen supercompensation



Geez, I don't know about that Holloszy guy. Kidding of course. If it
relates to exercise metabolism, he is the man. Specifically with
regard to that paper there are a couple of caveats. First, rat
metabolism is different than human, so, results of rat studies don't
necessarily translate to humans, although these might. Second, GLUT4
translocation is not a measure of glucose uptake and incorporation
into glycogen, although it is an indicator of the ability of the cell
to take up glucose. That being said, this is my take on the paper,
not having read the paper, just the abstract. By delaying glycogen
repletion, you are maintaining the cells ability to take up glucose
and presumably capacity for glycogen supercompensation. This makes
sense because GLUT4 translocation is reliant to a certain extent on
the energy state of the cell. If you are depleting the muscle of
glycogen and not refeeding it, then the energy state of the cell will
remain low. This is great for glucose tolerance and insulin
sensitivity, but not great for a workout that you want to perform 24 h
after the glycogen depleting bout. Further, we know that glycogen
depleting exercise, in conjunction with low CHO feeding results in
glycogen supercompensation. This is the foundation of the old
approach where one performed overdistance exercise and did not eat
CHO, then switched to hi CHO diet to supercompensate glycogen
repletion before a big event. In practice though, this results in
fatigue in the week leading up to the event, when you want to be fresh
and sharp. We have since learned that simply eating a greater amount
of CHO in the days leading up to the event, and eliminating the
overdistance workout, is more effective from a peformance standpoint.
So, we always need to balance the animal and basic data with real
world performance data. I'll be the first to admit that I really try
to fit basic metabolic data into the performance formula though.
Thanks for the abstract, I'll have to get the paper.




I've been experimenting with a cheap home-brew recovery concoction
consisting of a package of Carnation Instant Breakfast, soymilk,
bananas, blueberries and some good Quebecois yogurt thrown in for
"bite" and texture. I think the CHOrotein ratios are in the ballpark
and it's cheap. I did a 2 hour run Sunday, a 100k bike ride Monday,
and was able to do a 2 hour run the next day without any problems. I
don't usually do overdistance workouts on consecutive days but this
was an experiment and I was on holidays so I could nap after the
workouts...


With regard to your concoction, back in the day, I used to drink
Instant Breakfast as a supplement. I can't recall what the protein
content of it is, probably pretty low. I've already stated my take on
soy protein for recovery. That's not to say that I am anti-soy, it's
just that it is not a good protein source for recovery. There are
lots of good things in soy that would be of benefit to overall health,
but they could ingested some other time.

I'm just looking for something inexpensive that I can whip up with
readily available materials. If there is something more optimal that
is readily available without paying an arm and a leg... I'm all ears.
We have soy milk in the fridge because my wife can't tolerate milk,
that's all. I have no axe to grind for soy.
Looking at the nutritional blurb for Instant Breakfast, it says the
CHO/protein ratio is 28g/7g. My understanding is that 4:1 is what the
commercial recovery drinks are using.

We touched on this a couple of posts ago, but there is no firmly
established optimal ratio. It depends on the caloric requirements of
repletion balanced with the amount of protein necessary to enhance
recovery. Using the essential amino acid approach, the ratio would be
much greater than 4:1, but when I use whole protein, my ratio is about
3:1. The 4:1 ratio has been proposed, and studies funded to a great
extent, by companies selling those products .


Steve





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