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QUESTIONS ABOUT ROLLERSKIS AND POLES



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 14th 03, 10:45 PM
Nathan Schultz
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Default QUESTIONS ABOUT ROLLERSKIS AND POLES

Generally, the biggest influence on rollerski speed is the wheel
compound. Racing rollerski wheels are made out of hard urethane (?) and the
softer wheels generally are slower. The bearings have a significant
influence, but it's mostly the wheel compound.

-Nathan
http://nsavage.com

"Mike" wrote in message
m...
My speedskates have "normal" 80mm wheel. I find my rollerskis to be
much slower than my inlines. You should also know that rollerskis are
much more unstable than inlines.

If you want a fast ski: The V2 Aero 150 can be pumped up to 100 lbs
psi and move pretty fast. Pro-Ski S2 skate rollerski are fast - I set
a PR around Kensington Metropark on a pair, without really trying.
Avoid the Aero 125 - you've probably read the horror stories about
wheel failures in this forum.

Not sure that wheel diameter makes a difference in rollerski speed.
I've been evaluting a pair of Pro-Ski S3 rollerskis with 23mm x 100mm
wheels, and they're slower than my Aero's pumped up to minimum
pressure. I think wheel hardness (primary) and bearings (secondary)
make the difference in speed (although I'm no expert in materials
technology - just my guess).

Mike



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  #2  
Old July 17th 03, 08:20 PM
revyakin
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Default QUESTIONS ABOUT ROLLERSKIS AND POLES

The r.skis that can be most easily slowed down on demand (both for
negotiating hills and for better resistance) w/o frying the wheels are
v2 aeros 150s. You have to lean over though to engage the speed
reducers, which personally I don't have a problem with.

150s are also good for bad pavement and for the occasions when you
have leaves/debris on the pavement e.g. after a recent rainstorm.

Note that inline skates in general are much better in rolling over
cracks/rocks because the 4 wheels in inlines essentially have no gaps
between them.
  #3  
Old July 18th 03, 04:51 AM
Serge
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Default QUESTIONS ABOUT ROLLERSKIS AND POLES

When I follow European rollerski competition (rollerskitour.com) I
don't ever
see aero wheels.

If what Mike saying is true and aero wheels are faster than solid PU
wheels
why aren't nobody is using them?

My expirience as a speedskater tells me that harder wheels are faster
as long
as rebound is there. I've never tried "pump up" wheels, of course, but
they should be softer than soft skating wheels for sure.

What I see on photos from races they use short (530mm) rollerski with
100mm wheel and that's it. No 125 Aero, no 150 Aero or any aero.

Can somebody clear that matter?

This is important because skating industry is moving towards 100mm
wheel
not being on 84mm for a year. Nobody half-way serious is talking about
80mm wheel any more.

If all this is going to settle on 100mm, we will have a host of wery
good
quality, wery fast wheels for various conditions for skating and
rollerskiing alike.
Remember, pro speedskaters do marathon in 1 hour (which is 26 MPH last
time
I checked).
  #4  
Old July 18th 03, 04:02 PM
Mike
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Default QUESTIONS ABOUT ROLLERSKIS AND POLES

(Serge) wrote in message . com...
When I follow European rollerski competition (rollerskitour.com) I
don't ever see aero wheels.

If what Mike saying is true and aero wheels are faster than solid PU
wheels why aren't nobody is using them?



Slight mis-quote there - I was just giving examples of when some
wheels are faster than others. Pumping up the Aeros simply proves your
point below that harder wheels are faster. You didn't mention in your
first post that you were looking for *racing* rollerskis. I had
assumed you were talking about rollerskis for normal training.

There are rollerskis out there designed for racing (the Aeros are
not). I do not know the brands, but I assume they have very hard
wheels and are somewhat bigger to handle bumps. Anyone else know what
brands and models for are racing?


My expirience as a speedskater tells me that harder wheels are faster
as long as rebound is there. I've never tried "pump up" wheels, of course,
but they should be softer than soft skating wheels for sure.

What I see on photos from races they use short (530mm) rollerski with
100mm wheel and that's it. No 125 Aero, no 150 Aero or any aero.


If all this is going to settle on 100mm, we will have a host of wery
good quality, wery fast wheels for various conditions for skating and
rollerskiing alike. Remember, pro speedskaters do marathon in 1 hour
which is 26 MPH last time I checked).



Using inline wheels for rollerskis: I've heard that when people tried
only two inline wheels per rollerski, the heat generated by the
pressure on two wheels melted the plastic around the bearings, causing
the wheel to slip on the bearing and hit the ski frame (not very
fast). With inline skates you have 5 wheels directly underfoot. With
rolleskis, you'd have two wheels, with extra leverage on the wheels
because they are further out. (I know Jenex had a three wheel inline
rollerski model at one time - it was pretty fast, but not a racing
model. A friend of mine still uses them.)

Mike
  #5  
Old July 18th 03, 07:18 PM
Nathan Schultz
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Default QUESTIONS ABOUT ROLLERSKIS AND POLES


"revyakin" wrote in message
om...
if your objective is to TRAIN on rollerskis to prepare for snow
skiing, the slower the better (safer too).


I disagree slightly. There are many rollerski wheels out there that are
too slow - they slow down the motion and do not imitate skiing very well
because of this. It depends on what you're trying to accomplish as well.
If you want aerobic training, slow rollerskis are OK, but if you are trying
to work on technique or speed, a little bit faster than snow seems to be the
best, especially for people at altitude.

-Nathan
http://nsavage.com


  #6  
Old July 18th 03, 10:52 PM
Serge
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Default QUESTIONS ABOUT ROLLERSKIS AND POLES

Thanks, everybody.

I need rollerskis for training and being in Bay Area I would use them
a lot as preparation for snow (6hr. away from here even in winter!).
And I can rollerski
practicly of my porch (next to Pebble Beach - no traffic, good road
w/rolling
hills along the Pacific)

But at the same time I want to organize some kinde of racing and at
least not to
loose skiing frends during summer.

Local outdoor speedskating races can let rollerskiers to participate.
They are looking for more people and nothing is wrong to have
rollerski category. In fact this is way better than wait for Rollerski
Federation to acknowlege California existence. They are too busy with
Turkey (you know, another Scandinavian country) and stuff.

So, my idea is to use racing rollerskis (and the same wheels I use for
skates)
for training and just slow them down with reducers, short bushings or
rubber
rings or use "dead" skating wheels, 100mm scooter wheels ets. or even
80mm wheels.

Melted wheel hubs is new phenomena to me - probably "shot" bearings
more than load (there are 2-wheels skates and they work OK).
Some new skating wheels have carbon or Alu. hub, so no sweat, they
will not melt.

If anybody is interested in new generation 100mm skating wheels
presumably applicable for rollerskis I should know thing or two.
  #7  
Old July 21st 03, 07:04 PM
revyakin
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Default QUESTIONS ABOUT ROLLERSKIS AND POLES

Local outdoor speedskating races can let rollerskiers to participate.
They are looking for more people and nothing is wrong to have
rollerski category.


Cool. I may go to Bay Area within an area for a job interview, so I
could probably join your race. 6hours from snow? Isn't Royal Gorge
relatively close? I remeber making it in 2.5 hours.

Don't expect, as a rollerskier, to go faster than speedskaters, even
though you will have poles. On speedskates, you turnover is faster
than on rollerskis, and the technique is slightly different.

I am going to California in October... but I'll be in LA area. I am
planning to drive North to Fresno area and to try to rollerski up to
Giant Forest from Three Rivers... 16 miles or so.
Will have to convince my girfriend to wait for me with a car on the
top.
  #8  
Old July 23rd 03, 12:43 AM
sknyski
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Default QUESTIONS ABOUT ROLLERSKIS AND POLES

Cool. I may go to Bay Area within an area for a job interview, so I
could probably join your race. 6hours from snow? Isn't Royal Gorge
relatively close? I remeber making it in 2.5 hours.


You were probably driving from the City (SF) and it is about 2.5 hours
from SF to the Gorge. Serge lives in Monterey, which is over an hour
south of SAN JOSE, which is about an hour south of SF. So,...do the
math and you'll get close to 6 hours. Montecito, Yosemite, or Bear
Valley may be closer for him, I don't know.


The best place for a rollerski race is probably on Canada road on a
Sunday, where you (Serge) were a couple of weeks ago with your speed
skating buddies. I was one of the guys out there on rollerskis. My
buddy and I used to do time trials there in the fall, but he has a kid
now and I, well, I have no excuse. Not to pour cold water on your
idea of rollerski races, but I would forget it in the bay area - most
of the skiers who live there have to be pried off their bicycles every
November. If you want to race, check with Far West Nordic in Truckee
and see if there is anything going on up there, either formally or
informally. But then you're stuck with that 6 hour drive...

bt
  #9  
Old July 24th 03, 02:01 PM
Ken Roberts
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Default QUESTIONS ABOUT ROLLERSKIS AND POLES

I'm glad to see someone question the use of higher forces in rollerski
training.

Nathan Schultz wrote:
. . . if you are trying to work on technique or speed,
a little bit faster than snow seems to be the best,
especially for people at altitude.


In previous years and in other sports I've always put a lot of emphasis on
training with higher Force. And since slower is usually safer for
rollerskiing, that fit for me choosing slow rollerskis.

But in fact true physical Power (the main driver of racing and hill-climbing
success) has two other equally important factors besides Force:
Muscle-Push-range-Distance and Turnover-Frequency

It's interesting to think of training as the application of Race-pace or
above-Race-pace stress on different combinations of those factors. My
tendency has been to focus on just Force, or maybe the combination of Force
and Muscle-Push-range-Distance (like plyometrics or strength training).

The big neglected factor in my power-training has been Turnover-Frequency.
And especially the _combination_ of Turnover-Frequency with
Muscle-push-range-Distance. Seems to me the use of slow rollerskis makes it
nearly impossible to apply an above-Race-pace training stress to that
combination of critical Power-factors.

But I still like to use slower rollerskis a lot, because my biggest dryland
training block is fear. And because it partly simulates hill-climbing,
without driving to an actual steep hill (and then figuring out how to get
back down it again).

Ken


  #10  
Old July 28th 03, 05:32 PM
Mark
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Default QUESTIONS ABOUT ROLLERSKIS AND POLES

Last roller ski race in California that I know about was held in 1982
in Davis. I helped sponsor it, along with Bill Sterling at Alpine
Supply (r.i.p.) in Davis. Talk about ancient history.

Good luck getting all the necessary permits and insurance for doing an
official roller ski race these days. Not to mention finding the 6 or 7
individuals outside of Truckee that actually do it on a regular basis.

Just at the hint of a roller ski race though, I know that right now,
Bryant is mail ordering the fastest ski wheels he can get a hold of to
make sure he wins the inaugural race. GO SKNYSKI! (I'll do it on my C3
classics, just to make things fair)

Mark

(Serge) wrote in message . com...
Thanks, everybody.

I need rollerskis for training and being in Bay Area I would use them
a lot as preparation for snow (6hr. away from here even in winter!).
And I can rollerski
practicly of my porch (next to Pebble Beach - no traffic, good road
w/rolling
hills along the Pacific)

But at the same time I want to organize some kinde of racing and at
least not to
loose skiing frends during summer.

Local outdoor speedskating races can let rollerskiers to participate.
They are looking for more people and nothing is wrong to have
rollerski category. In fact this is way better than wait for Rollerski
Federation to acknowlege California existence. They are too busy with
Turkey (you know, another Scandinavian country) and stuff.

So, my idea is to use racing rollerskis (and the same wheels I use for
skates)
for training and just slow them down with reducers, short bushings or
rubber
rings or use "dead" skating wheels, 100mm scooter wheels ets. or even
80mm wheels.

Melted wheel hubs is new phenomena to me - probably "shot" bearings
more than load (there are 2-wheels skates and they work OK).
Some new skating wheels have carbon or Alu. hub, so no sweat, they
will not melt.

If anybody is interested in new generation 100mm skating wheels
presumably applicable for rollerskis I should know thing or two.

 




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