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#1
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Going off trail
Hello, I have to admit that I am extremely confused as to what type of ski
I would need to buy. The basic question is what type of ski I should buy for wandering around the snow with my skis. I had been introduced to skiing via the alpine downhill skiing route, with the standard relatively wide fixed-binding, plastic boot, metal-edged skis. I skied around 10 times before deciding that I really hated spending 90% of my time on freezing lifts and the rest 10% on extremely steep downhill tracks. I guess those are called 'Alpine' skis. Then I discovered cross-country skiing (the standard olympic type) and I've had a lot of fun with it, mostly with skate-type skis. I love the movement, the soft boots, the light skis, but it seems pretty much impossible to go downhill on anything more than the gentlest slopes. I think those are called 'XC' and 'Skate' skis, or occasionally 'Nordic' skis. I've also tried ski touring once and I loved the concept - the skis resembled more the traditional alpine skis, with almost exactly the same boot, a fixed/release binding, wide edged skis and skins. I think those are actually called "AT" skis, or "skis de rando" I think the Fischer AMC skis are of this type. However I found going downhill with such skis a bit uncomfortable as they are far too heavy. Then I've seen a few other types which seem to be somewhere between XC and AT skis.. i.e. Fischer seems to have the S-Bound series (i.e. Outbound Crown which seems to be a waxless ski) and the Backcountry series (i.e. Country Crown, which seems to be a waxless ski). It also seems that you are supposed to be wearing those skis with relatively soft leather boots - slightly harder than skating boots, but much softer than AT boots. The equipment is also much much much cheaper. So am I a bit confused. I'd like to have, apart from my skating skis, a pair of skis that can be used relatively well in either a track or off-piste. Tackling very steep downhills will not be necessary. I guess I could go and rent a couple of different types of equipment this season to see what is best for me, but other than that, do you have some further advice so that I can narrow down choice? Thanks, Christos -- Christos Dimitrakakis Homepage: http://www.idiap.ch/~dimitrak/main.html Music: http://olethros.dmusic.com |
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#2
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Going off trail
Christos Dimitrakakis wrote:
So am I a bit confused. I'd like to have, apart from my skating skis, a pair of skis that can be used relatively well in either a track or off-piste. Tackling very steep downhills will not be necessary. I guess I could go and rent a couple of different types of equipment this season to see what is best for me, but other than that, do you have some further advice so that I can narrow down choice? You should probably get a lightweight touring xc ski, definitely not one of those really heavy 'backcountry' skis with (partial) metal edges etc. Personally I do all my skiing on my competition classic skis, because I hate dragging any extra weight around, but it must be admitted that a somewhat wider skis with at least a little incut is much easier to control in powder! My most serious backcountry trip was probably the 8-day, 300 km trek from Morgedal in Telemark to Lillehammer the week before the '94 olympics. This was in _very_ deep fresh powder, at least all the parts below the tree line, so breaking trail was very tough. OTOH I got to rest for about 50 minutes between each time I had one of the two first positions. (We were 12 skiers, the front skier broke trail for 5 minutes before stopping and re-entering the line at the back end.) The only time I really missed a wider ski was when skiing down a long, smooth slope towards Kalhovd on the Hardangervidda plateau: The other guys could just stand up & rest, while I had to work since I sunk too deep into the snow. :-( Terje -- - "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching" |
#3
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Going off trail
In article ,
Terje Mathisen wrote: You should probably get a lightweight touring xc ski, definitely not one of those really heavy 'backcountry' skis with (partial) metal edges etc. I don't consider myself any kind of expert on this subject -- but in my experience if you're likely to encounter a variety of snow conditions, including especially hard pack or even a bit icy surfaces on any kind of slope or gradient, even quite moderate, you absolutely want metal edges for grip and control, weight or no weight. |
#4
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Going off trail
I think the S-Bound skis by Fischer are outstanding for icy slopes and
turning on downhills. You might be pleased with the Rossignol touring skis that have an extended edge (not metal). The give decent edge grip in everything but boilerplate. There isn't a perfect ski for all situations. A deep side cut back country ski will not tour (go straight) efficiently. The metal edge will add weight and reduce speed. Some waxless models are difficult to tune the edges as the kick pattern will get in the way of tuning tools. A touring ski (like the Fischer BC Country Crown) has little surface area for flotation and with little side cut will be harder to turn (downhill). The terrain should dictate the ski you choose. I would start with choosing boots. The Rossignol X9, X11(75mm) or X7 (NNN Magnum) are fantastic boots. They are quite warm as well. On Nov 4, 9:03 pm, AES wrote: In article , Terje Mathisen wrote: You should probably get a lightweight touring xc ski, definitely not one of those really heavy 'backcountry' skis with (partial) metal edges etc.I don't consider myself any kind of expert on this subject -- but in my experience if you're likely to encounter a variety of snow conditions, including especially hard pack or even a bit icy surfaces on any kind of slope or gradient, even quite moderate, you absolutely want metal edges for grip and control, weight or no weight. |
#5
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Going off trail
Christos Dimitrakakis wrote:
Hello, I have to admit that I am extremely confused as to what type of ski I would need to buy. The basic question is what type of ski I should buy for wandering around the snow with my skis. I had been introduced to skiing via the alpine downhill skiing route, with the standard relatively wide fixed-binding, plastic boot, metal-edged skis. I skied around 10 times before deciding that I really hated spending 90% of my time on freezing lifts and the rest 10% on extremely steep downhill tracks. I guess those are called 'Alpine' skis. Then I discovered cross-country skiing (the standard olympic type) and I've had a lot of fun with it, mostly with skate-type skis. I love the movement, the soft boots, the light skis, but it seems pretty much impossible to go downhill on anything more than the gentlest slopes. I think those are called 'XC' and 'Skate' skis, or occasionally 'Nordic' skis. I've also tried ski touring once and I loved the concept - the skis resembled more the traditional alpine skis, with almost exactly the same boot, a fixed/release binding, wide edged skis and skins. I think those are actually called "AT" skis, or "skis de rando" I think the Fischer AMC skis are of this type. However I found going downhill with such skis a bit uncomfortable as they are far too heavy. Then I've seen a few other types which seem to be somewhere between XC and AT skis.. i.e. Fischer seems to have the S-Bound series (i.e. Outbound Crown which seems to be a waxless ski) and the Backcountry series (i.e. Country Crown, which seems to be a waxless ski). It also seems that you are supposed to be wearing those skis with relatively soft leather boots - slightly harder than skating boots, but much softer than AT boots. The equipment is also much much much cheaper. So am I a bit confused. I'd like to have, apart from my skating skis, a pair of skis that can be used relatively well in either a track or off-piste. Tackling very steep downhills will not be necessary. I guess I could go and rent a couple of different types of equipment this season to see what is best for me, but other than that, do you have some further advice so that I can narrow down choice? Thanks, Christos If I were you I'd gasp take up telemark skiing. It is similar to other nordic styles except that it gives you much more downhill control. For what I think you are looking for, what is now called "light" telemark equipment would suit. This would be maybe leather boots, a cable binding and fairly wide skis with maybe a no-wax touring type base and a set of "skins" for steeper ascents. Look also at Telemark Tips on line. Google if you need to. VtSkier |
#6
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Going off trail
So am I a bit confused. I'd like to have, apart from my skating skis, a
pair of skis that can be used relatively well in either a track or off-piste. Tackling very steep downhills will not be necessary. I guess I could go and rent a couple of different types of equipment this season to see what is best for me, but other than that, do you have some further advice so that I can narrow down choice? I think you have most of the data. I'll second the suggestion for metal edges and "light telemark", but it really depends on what you want to do and what you consider important. Renting sounds like a good idea. What are your friends using? Sometimes it's better to have the same gear as others in your group even if something else would be "better" for the trip you are on. One thing worth adding to your list. Light telemark skis come in single camber and double camber. Double camber work much better for kick-and-glide. Single camber turn much better/easier on a downhill run, even if it isn't very steep. -- The suespammers.org mail server is located in California. So are all my other mailboxes. Please do not send unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail to my suespammers.org address or any of my other addresses. These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. |
#7
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Going off trail
Hal Murray wrote
What are your friends using? Sometimes it's better to have the same gear as others in your group ... Good advice. I'd like to have, apart from my skating skis, a pair of skis that can be used relatively well in either a track or off-piste. If you're planning to do a lot of your skiing within a couple of hours drive from Lausanne, Switzerland, I'd recommend getting a pair of light Alpine Touring or "randonnee" skis and bindings. Telemark bindings? My experience in the Alps around Lausanne is that those are used mainly by lift-served downhill skiers who've gotten bored or need to find some new move to show off for people watching them from the lifts. I see them only rarely out on ski tours. A light AT boot (like the Scarpa F1), with a light AT binding (like the Dynafit Tourlite Tech) mounted on a light AT ski (various models, I've got Atomic Tourcap Guide), is significantly lighter than almost any "telemark" setup that would be appropriate for around Lausanne, Switzerland. The Scarpa F1 has a more flexible sole for "classic" striding than lots of telemark boots. On the other hand, if most of your skiing is going to be on holidays to Norway, then listen to the Norwegians. Actually for around Lausanne I would recommend accepting another kg in boot weight and getting a 3-buckle boot for better control. Now you may say you don't care about steeper downhill slopes, but once you see what range of tours gets opened up and the range of partners who will accept you if you can confidently handle a steeper downhill slope, I bet you'll be glad you went for the extra control. Ken |
#8
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Going off trail
Christos Dimitrakakis wrote:
Hello, I have to admit that I am extremely confused as to what type of ski I would need to buy. The basic question is what type of ski I should buy for wandering around the snow with my skis. I had been introduced to skiing via the alpine downhill skiing route, with the standard relatively wide fixed-binding, plastic boot, metal-edged skis. I skied around 10 times before deciding that I really hated spending 90% of my time on freezing lifts and the rest 10% on extremely steep downhill tracks. I guess those are called 'Alpine' skis. Then I discovered cross-country skiing (the standard olympic type) and I've had a lot of fun with it, mostly with skate-type skis. I love the movement, the soft boots, the light skis, but it seems pretty much impossible to go downhill on anything more than the gentlest slopes. I think those are called 'XC' and 'Skate' skis, or occasionally 'Nordic' skis. I've also tried ski touring once and I loved the concept - the skis resembled more the traditional alpine skis, with almost exactly the same boot, a fixed/release binding, wide edged skis and skins. I think those are actually called "AT" skis, or "skis de rando" I think the Fischer AMC skis are of this type. However I found going downhill with such skis a bit uncomfortable as they are far too heavy. Then I've seen a few other types which seem to be somewhere between XC and AT skis.. i.e. Fischer seems to have the S-Bound series (i.e. Outbound Crown which seems to be a waxless ski) and the Backcountry series (i.e. Country Crown, which seems to be a waxless ski). It also seems that you are supposed to be wearing those skis with relatively soft leather boots - slightly harder than skating boots, but much softer than AT boots. The equipment is also much much much cheaper. So am I a bit confused. I'd like to have, apart from my skating skis, a pair of skis that can be used relatively well in either a track or off-piste. Tackling very steep downhills will not be necessary. I guess I could go and rent a couple of different types of equipment this season to see what is best for me, but other than that, do you have some further advice so that I can narrow down choice? Thanks, Christos As you have noticed in the various replies, everybody has a different slant on XC/backcountry skiing. I think this is because they (we) are all rugged individualists! For my 2 cents (American idiom meaning my reply may have little value) 1) The skis need to match up to the type of snow you have in your area; ie; mostly dry/powdery, mostly wet, mostly (shudder) icy, etc. 2) The wider (80mm or so) skis float better in totally unused trails (ie; wandering through the woods in deep snow, but the glide is poor (I got rid of my Fischer Outtabounds for this reason). Wide skis also like to skid sideways a lot more! 3) For me the glide is what it is about and with crummy glide they are just long snow shoes. 4) Very narrow skis, typically for racing (less than 50mm) glide very well, but need prepared tracks or groomed wide flat areas for skating. 5) Speaking of skating, lots of glide, the racers like it because it is 10% or so faster, but forget hiking trails or anything ungroomed (except in rarish strong crust snow that you can skate on top of it all). 6) Classic skiing (striding) lets you go anywhere. Waxless has considerably less glide but very little prep time (yes you still need to put something on for glide and to prevent icing, but this can be easy liquid stuff). Wax type use glide wax front and back, with special grip wax in the center. New in the past couple years wax grip tape also works very well, lasts hundreds of km, has a very wide temp range, and was what finally worked for me and wax. 7) Steel edges have some advantage; protect the bottoms somewhat over roots and low snow, can give you some edge grip (but nothing like alpine!). I would only bother if you were doing backcountry backpacking. |
#9
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Going off trail
[ Christos Dimitrakakis ]
So am I a bit confused. I'd like to have, apart from my skating skis, a pair of skis that can be used relatively well in either a track or off-piste. Tackling very steep downhills will not be necessary. Just one small thing to add to what the others have said, you need relatively skinny skis to fit well in prepared tracks. This is at odds with going off-track in deep snow, for that you want wider skis. So you have to decide if you really want skis that fit in prepared tracks, if you do then that restricts your choice a fair bit. Martin -- "An ideal world is left as an exercise to the reader." -Paul Graham, On Lisp |
#10
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Going off trail
Ken Roberts wrote:
ly out on ski tours. A light AT boot (like the Scarpa F1), with a light AT binding (like the Dynafit Tourlite Tech) mounted on a light AT ski (various models, I've got Atomic Tourcap Guide), is significantly lighter than almost any "telemark" setup that would be appropriate for around Lausanne, Switzerland. There's plenty skiing in the Alps that doesn't favour randonee gear. While there's certainly lots of terrain where it's emphatically better than light tele gear there's no shortage of skiing where that isn't the case: you've enough scenery in the area to pick and choose for your style of skiing, and what the OP asked for (a ski light enough for some track work that can get down modest downhills) is not best suited for randonee gear, even light randonee gear. Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
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