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#1
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Keepin' it real...
Regarding brand performance, loyalty, durability, etc......oozing out
of the Burton Vapor thread: Started selling/renting boards in 1990. Our shop was core not, corporate. Hated the big guys, esp Burton. Have stocked, sold and, seen go bye-bye at least 40 brands of boards, boots & bindings the past 16 years. Most because they couldn't sell enough product to stay in business; some because their product was crap; and, a handful were absorbed by the bigger guys (primarily K2). Our shop owner will tell anyone that I am the worst "salesman" on the floor. I won't sell a 6'2"-200lb-size-12-shoe dude a 154 Custom to make the sale. Even if he's in love w/ it. It's a disservice that he'll discover all too quickly on the hill. This sales "technique" has driven our shop growth in a double-digit manner for 16 straight seasons. It's also the same way Burton has grown to dominate the world of snowboarding. The develop products that work. Then test the **** out of them before bringing them to market. Obviously, if you sell more product than all the others combined you are going to have more failures. Not just because of simple math but, also, due to the fact that the users are pushing the envelope. Go to any major competitive event. You'll see more Burton bindings on non-Burton boards than said board manufacturer's own models. Why? Because they work. Another group member suggested that my motivation favoring Burton products may be financial. A little bit true. However, providing riders, both current and future, with products that make them happy is my true goal. And, I'm absolutely anal about being wrong. |
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#2
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Keepin' it real...
56fish wrote:
"You'll see more Burton bindings on non-Burton boards than said board manufacturer's own models. Why? Because they work." IMHO you were very objective till you stated this. I see allot of new, untried, Burton technology on the slopes. There is no doubt Burton makes some good product, but in general, it is my opinion it is over rated, much like DC and Element equipment in the skate boarding world. It is also my opinion Salomon is underrated, even if the product comes from a country whose government I disagree with. I have yet to see bindings from them fail. My son loves the Prospect as a general all round, do everything, board. If you have owned both the Burton Driver and Salomon Malamute boots, you can smell the difference after you get into the boarding season... :-) Boy, I had no idea what a difference those Salomon AgION silver-based anti-microbial linings would would make. The drivers stunk, literally. I am sure teenagers wearing them had something to do with this. Just as an FYI, because I said I would do so in an earlier post, the Nitro Raidens lost a toe strap on the first day of use. Nice bindings otherwise, yet we would had lost half a day of riding if it was the only setup we had brought. Had them mounted up on the Donek Phoenix. Best Regards, Chris |
#3
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Keepin' it real...
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:28:29 GMT, Christopher Cox
allegedly wrote: It is also my opinion Salomon is underrated, even if the product comes from a country whose government I disagree with. I have yet to see bindings from them fail. I guess that depends on how many bindings from them that you've seen. My SP5s failed after less than 2 years, and then Salomon couldn't/wouldn't do anything about them. http://www.vpas.org.uk/bindings2.html Anything can break. What I like is a balance between having a good product that's generally reliable and a good warranty program that's there when things go wrong. For me, Salomon failed the latter test. - Dave. -- The only powder to get high on, falls from the sky. http://www.vpas.org.uk/ - Snowboarding the worlds pow pow. Donek Sasquatch 162, Prior Pow 181, Burton Canyon 162 The Snowboard FAQ lives here - http://www.vpas.fsnet.co.uk/rssFAQ/ |
#4
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Keepin' it real...
Switters wrote:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:28:29 GMT, Christopher Cox allegedly wrote: It is also my opinion Salomon is underrated, even if the product comes from a country whose government I disagree with. I have yet to see bindings from them fail. I guess that depends on how many bindings from them that you've seen. My SP5s failed after less than 2 years, and then Salomon couldn't/wouldn't do anything about them. http://www.vpas.org.uk/bindings2.html Anything can break. What I like is a balance between having a good product that's generally reliable and a good warranty program that's there when things go wrong. For me, Salomon failed the latter test. - Dave. Gads, well, as stated before, Burton has a great warranty department! And maybe that is the determining factor. I know I am staying away from TechNine after they changed their service policy. Still, knowing about ladder breakage with the Missions, I would keep a replacement set handy. Chris |
#5
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Keepin' it real...
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:28:29 GMT, Christopher Cox
wrote: It is also my opinion Salomon is underrated, even if the product comes from a country whose government I disagree with. Wha? Firstly, that seems a pretty bizarre way to chose kit - based on the country where the manufacturer is based. I mean, the manufacturer's staff may disagree with their government just as much as you do. And secondly, I can't recall the French government doing much that has invited international criticism for quite a while. Not since the Rainbow Warrior, at least -- Champ |
#6
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Keepin' it real...
Champ wrote:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:28:29 GMT, Christopher Cox wrote: It is also my opinion Salomon is underrated, even if the product comes from a country whose government I disagree with. Wha? Firstly, that seems a pretty bizarre way to chose kit - based on the country where the manufacturer is based. I mean, the manufacturer's staff may disagree with their government just as much as you do. And secondly, I can't recall the French government doing much that has invited international criticism for quite a while. Not since the Rainbow Warrior, at least A lot of Americans are in a snit over lack of French support for the Iraq war. Neil |
#7
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Keepin' it real...
Neil Gendzwill wrote: Champ wrote: On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:28:29 GMT, Christopher Cox wrote: It is also my opinion Salomon is underrated, even if the product comes from a country whose government I disagree with. Wha? Firstly, that seems a pretty bizarre way to chose kit - based on the country where the manufacturer is based. I mean, the manufacturer's staff may disagree with their government just as much as you do. And secondly, I can't recall the French government doing much that has invited international criticism for quite a while. Not since the Rainbow Warrior, at least A lot of Americans are in a snit over lack of French support for the Iraq war. Not anymore, especially since most Americans don't support the Iraq war now either. At the time of the invasion there was a lot of right-wing nuttiness about France's cowardice and the urgency of renaming french fries "freedom fries," but fortunately that inanity is in the past for all but a tiny fringe. Joe Ramirez |
#8
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Keepin' it real...
On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:02:28 -0600, Neil Gendzwill
wrote: Champ wrote: On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:28:29 GMT, Christopher Cox wrote: It is also my opinion Salomon is underrated, even if the product comes from a country whose government I disagree with. Wha? Firstly, that seems a pretty bizarre way to chose kit - based on the country where the manufacturer is based. I mean, the manufacturer's staff may disagree with their government just as much as you do. And secondly, I can't recall the French government doing much that has invited international criticism for quite a while. Not since the Rainbow Warrior, at least A lot of Americans are in a snit over lack of French support for the Iraq war. Yeah, I knew that, but I didn't mention explicitly cos I didn't want to send this thread down that route. Probably too late for that now, tho! -- Champ |
#9
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Keepin' it real...
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#10
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Keepin' it real...
On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:32:58 GMT, Christopher Cox
allegedly wrote: Still, knowing about ladder breakage with the Missions, I would keep a replacement set handy. Could you elaborate please? I've not heard about that. So far this season though, I won't be too far away from a Burton retailer. - Dave. -- The only powder to get high on, falls from the sky. http://www.vpas.org.uk/ - Snowboarding the worlds pow pow. Donek Sasquatch 162, Prior Pow 181, Burton Canyon 162 The Snowboard FAQ lives here - http://www.vpas.fsnet.co.uk/rssFAQ/ |
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