Verbier: On or Off-Piste?

There are some runs in Verbier marked as "itineraries" with a yellow
dotted line on the piste map (e.g. down to Tortin).

I read somewhere that these are basically ungroomed black runs -
unpatrolled, but made safe from avalanches (or as safe as any piste).

Usually we wouldn't go off-piste without a guide, a transceiver etc but
does that mean we can treat them as we would a black run? Does that
also mean they would be closed if unsafe (like a piste) and/or have a
warning if very rocky?

Last time we were in Verbier we got the cable car down over Tortin, but
we're better skiers now and would like to have a go at the bumps (not
going until late March so 8 weeks for it to snow...).

The piste map says not to take the red dotted lines (the High Mountain
Tour) without a guide, so we won't.

On 16 Jan 2005 03:42:16 -0800, wrote:

There are some runs in Verbier marked as "itineraries" with a yellow
dotted line on the piste map (e.g. down to Tortin).

I read somewhere that these are basically ungroomed black runs -
unpatrolled, but made safe from avalanches (or as safe as any piste).

Usually we wouldn't go off-piste without a guide, a transceiver etc but
does that mean we can treat them as we would a black run? Does that
also mean they would be closed if unsafe (like a piste) and/or have a
warning if very rocky?

Last time we were in Verbier we got the cable car down over Tortin, but
we're better skiers now and would like to have a go at the bumps (not
going until late March so 8 weeks for it to snow...).

The piste map says not to take the red dotted lines (the High Mountain
Tour) without a guide, so we won't.


I've been down them both without any gear / guide. I had the impression
that it was fine to do so. There were plenty of people doing so. I think I
remember it being closed after some snow implying that they were taking
care of it but it was a few years ago so I don't remember that well.

For Tortin at the top there is a path leading around to the right which
people traverse around before deciding to go down. It's actually easier at
the start and gets harder as you go along the path so just get stuck in.
Of course we'd been told this but still didn't like the look of it at the
start and went around until it go harder!

I don't remember it being mogully, just lots of soft snow.

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Darren Atter wrote:
On 16 Jan 2005 03:42:16 -0800, wrote:

There are some runs in Verbier marked as "itineraries" with a yellow
dotted line on the piste map (e.g. down to Tortin).

I read somewhere that these are basically ungroomed black runs -
unpatrolled, but made safe from avalanches (or as safe as any piste).

Usually we wouldn't go off-piste without a guide, a transceiver etc but
does that mean we can treat them as we would a black run? Does that
also mean they would be closed if unsafe (like a piste) and/or have a
warning if very rocky?

Last time we were in Verbier we got the cable car down over Tortin, but
we're better skiers now and would like to have a go at the bumps (not
going until late March so 8 weeks for it to snow...).

The piste map says not to take the red dotted lines (the High Mountain
Tour) without a guide, so we won't.


I've been down them both without any gear / guide. I had the impression
that it was fine to do so. There were plenty of people doing so. I think
I remember it being closed after some snow implying that they were
taking care of it but it was a few years ago so I don't remember that
well.

For Tortin at the top there is a path leading around to the right which
people traverse around before deciding to go down. It's actually easier
at the start and gets harder as you go along the path so just get stuck
in. Of course we'd been told this but still didn't like the look of it
at the start and went around until it go harder!

I don't remember it being mogully, just lots of soft snow.


When we was in Verbier last April the tortin run was one of the biggest
and best mogul fields I had ever seen, very wide, even slope at the top
with biggish regularly spaced soft moguls over the whole upper sections.
We did it a couple times every day. You will know what it looks like
from the cable car going up. Definately worth doing. There are dozens of
people doing it at any one time. The length and steepness of it made it
quite tiring. To go from top to bottom without stopping would be quite
an achievement.

The other 'big' itinerary is the Gentianes, which is less steep, but
longer and with a greater range of terrain, making it, IMHO more
serious. The run from the top of Mont Fort to Tortin is a fantastic
excursion of about 1300m vertical, one of the best of its type.

We even went down the Gentianes in fog one day, so navigation isn't much
of a problem (remember we are still in big mountains and getting lost
has serious consequences.

We did not use a guide or any special off piste equipment.

I do not know why they are not marked as a black pistes.

My piste map has orange itineraries that are not marked and yellow ones
that are. It does not contain the red routes you mentioned.

The vallon D Arbi was closed for the whole week with an avalanche
warning at the top and the Mont-Gele cable car was also closed most of
the week, for, I suspect, similar reasons.

There is fantastic skiing in Verbier, but be prepared to queue quite a
long time for some of the cable cars, particulalrly if going over Easter.

John

John Elgy wrote:
Darren Atter wrote:

On 16 Jan 2005 03:42:16 -0800, wrote:

There are some runs in Verbier marked as "itineraries" with a yellow
dotted line on the piste map (e.g. down to Tortin).

I read somewhere that these are basically ungroomed black runs -
unpatrolled, but made safe from avalanches (or as safe as any piste).

Usually we wouldn't go off-piste without a guide, a transceiver etc but
does that mean we can treat them as we would a black run? Does that
also mean they would be closed if unsafe (like a piste) and/or have a
warning if very rocky?

Last time we were in Verbier we got the cable car down over Tortin, but
we're better skiers now and would like to have a go at the bumps (not
going until late March so 8 weeks for it to snow...).

The piste map says not to take the red dotted lines (the High Mountain
Tour) without a guide, so we won't.


I've been down them both without any gear / guide. I had the
impression that it was fine to do so. There were plenty of people
doing so. I think I remember it being closed after some snow implying
that they were taking care of it but it was a few years ago so I
don't remember that well.

For Tortin at the top there is a path leading around to the right
which people traverse around before deciding to go down. It's
actually easier at the start and gets harder as you go along the path
so just get stuck in. Of course we'd been told this but still didn't
like the look of it at the start and went around until it go harder!

I don't remember it being mogully, just lots of soft snow.


When we was in Verbier last April the tortin run was one of the biggest
and best mogul fields I had ever seen, very wide, even slope at the top
with biggish regularly spaced soft moguls over the whole upper sections.
We did it a couple times every day. You will know what it looks like
from the cable car going up. Definately worth doing. There are dozens of
people doing it at any one time. The length and steepness of it made it
quite tiring. To go from top to bottom without stopping would be quite
an achievement.

The other 'big' itinerary is the Gentianes, which is less steep, but
longer and with a greater range of terrain, making it, IMHO more
serious. The run from the top of Mont Fort to Tortin is a fantastic
excursion of about 1300m vertical, one of the best of its type.

We even went down the Gentianes in fog one day, so navigation isn't much
of a problem (remember we are still in big mountains and getting lost
has serious consequences.

We did not use a guide or any special off piste equipment.

I do not know why they are not marked as a black pistes.

My piste map has orange itineraries that are not marked and yellow ones
that are. It does not contain the red routes you mentioned.

The vallon D Arbi was closed for the whole week with an avalanche
warning at the top and the Mont-Gele cable car was also closed most of
the week, for, I suspect, similar reasons.

There is fantastic skiing in Verbier, but be prepared to queue quite a
long time for some of the cable cars, particulalrly if going over Easter.

John

OH! I forgot to mention there are some pictures on
http://www.zen20587.zen.co.uk/Winter...2004/index.htm

John

John Elgy wrote:
Darren Atter wrote:
On 16 Jan 2005 03:42:16 -0800, wrote:

There are some runs in Verbier marked as "itineraries" with a
yellow
dotted line on the piste map (e.g. down to Tortin).

I read somewhere that these are basically ungroomed black runs -
unpatrolled, but made safe from avalanches (or as safe as any
piste).

Usually we wouldn't go off-piste without a guide, a transceiver
etc but
does that mean we can treat them as we would a black run? Does
that
also mean they would be closed if unsafe (like a piste) and/or
have a
warning if very rocky?

Last time we were in Verbier we got the cable car down over
Tortin, but
we're better skiers now and would like to have a go at the bumps
(not
going until late March so 8 weeks for it to snow...).

The piste map says not to take the red dotted lines (the High
Mountain
Tour) without a guide, so we won't.


I've been down them both without any gear / guide. I had the
impression
that it was fine to do so. There were plenty of people doing so. I
think
I remember it being closed after some snow implying that they were

taking care of it but it was a few years ago so I don't remember
that
well.

For Tortin at the top there is a path leading around to the right
which
people traverse around before deciding to go down. It's actually
easier
at the start and gets harder as you go along the path so just get
stuck
in. Of course we'd been told this but still didn't like the look
of it
at the start and went around until it go harder!

I don't remember it being mogully, just lots of soft snow.


When we was in Verbier last April the tortin run was one of the
biggest
and best mogul fields I had ever seen, very wide, even slope at the
top
with biggish regularly spaced soft moguls over the whole upper
sections.
We did it a couple times every day. You will know what it looks like
from the cable car going up. Definately worth doing. There are dozens
of
people doing it at any one time. The length and steepness of it made
it
quite tiring. To go from top to bottom without stopping would be
quite
an achievement.

The other 'big' itinerary is the Gentianes, which is less steep, but
longer and with a greater range of terrain, making it, IMHO more
serious. The run from the top of Mont Fort to Tortin is a fantastic
excursion of about 1300m vertical, one of the best of its type.

We even went down the Gentianes in fog one day, so navigation isn't
much
of a problem (remember we are still in big mountains and getting lost

has serious consequences.

We did not use a guide or any special off piste equipment.

I do not know why they are not marked as a black pistes.

My piste map has orange itineraries that are not marked and yellow
ones
that are. It does not contain the red routes you mentioned.


My piste map is 4 years old, which may explain the difference.

The vallon D Arbi was closed for the whole week with an avalanche
warning at the top and the Mont-Gele cable car was also closed most
of
the week, for, I suspect, similar reasons.

There is fantastic skiing in Verbier, but be prepared to queue quite
a
long time for some of the cable cars, particulalrly if going over
Easter.

John

Thanks for the tips.