Blind me with beer science

bumpfreaq wrote:
Ok, here's a sciency query for y'all.

I get to my motel with plenty of beer. I've got Sierra Nevada Pale
Ale, Sierra Nevada Wheat and O'Dell's 5 Barrel Pale Ale. The mini
fridge isn't quite chilly enough so I ratchet the thermostat down a
bit then load in the bottles, filling up each available space in turn
but rotating the different flavors so that I have ready access to
whatever suits my momentary fancy. The next evening when I return
"home" from skiing I select a wheat beer and it's quite frosty. Next
up is a SNPA, of course it's mighty chilly as well. When I get to the
O'Dell's it instantly freezes as soon as I open it. This remains the
case for each O'Dell's no matter what part of the fridge it came from,
but is never the case for the other two brews no matter what part of
the fridge they were chilling in.

Can anyone explain this?

As others have said,

more carbonation
- more pressure in the bottle
- more expansion when the bottle is opened
- more cooling effect due to expansion of the gas
- beer slushy.

mmmm....beer slushy....mmmmm.


The giveaway hint here is that the beer was still liquid until you
opened it. Why does it freeze when you open it? The expanding gasses
take away heat. More expansion == more heat loss.

//Walt

On Feb 23, 10:34 am, lal_truckee wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:

Can anyone explain this?

Yes.

You drink your beer way too cold. Try cool room temp.

Like I told BW it was the jankity motel fridge. I turned it warmer
promptly. Then again, I like pale ales and wheat beers quite a bit
colder than room temp... even a cool room.

Chris

On Feb 23, 3:12 pm, Walt wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
Ok, here's a sciency query for y'all.

I get to my motel with plenty of beer. I've got Sierra Nevada Pale
Ale, Sierra Nevada Wheat and O'Dell's 5 Barrel Pale Ale. The mini
fridge isn't quite chilly enough so I ratchet the thermostat down a
bit then load in the bottles, filling up each available space in turn
but rotating the different flavors so that I have ready access to
whatever suits my momentary fancy. The next evening when I return
"home" from skiing I select a wheat beer and it's quite frosty. Next
up is a SNPA, of course it's mighty chilly as well. When I get to the
O'Dell's it instantly freezes as soon as I open it. This remains the
case for each O'Dell's no matter what part of the fridge it came from,
but is never the case for the other two brews no matter what part of
the fridge they were chilling in.

Can anyone explain this?

As others have said,

more carbonation
- more pressure in the bottle
- more expansion when the bottle is opened
- more cooling effect due to expansion of the gas
- beer slushy.

mmmm....beer slushy....mmmmm.

The giveaway hint here is that the beer was still liquid until you
opened it. Why does it freeze when you open it? The expanding gasses
take away heat. More expansion == more heat loss.

//Walt

Thanks Walt (and everyone else). You'll be glad to know that I never
put the cheese in the fridge.

Chris

On Feb 23, 2:59 pm, "Ernie" wrote:
"Stephen B." wrote in message

news:8evDh.7193$lo1.3196@trndny05...

"bdubya"wrote
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 22:10:32 -0500, "John R. Copeland"
wrote:

"bumpfreaq" wrote in message
roups.com...
Ok, here's a sciency query for y'all.

I get to my motel with plenty of beer. I've got Sierra Nevada Pale
Ale, Sierra Nevada Wheat and O'Dell's 5 Barrel Pale Ale. The mini
fridge isn't quite chilly enough so I ratchet the thermostat down a
bit then load in the bottles, filling up each available space in turn
but rotating the different flavors so that I have ready access to
whatever suits my momentary fancy. The next evening when I return
"home" from skiing I select a wheat beer and it's quite frosty. Next
up is a SNPA, of course it's mighty chilly as well. When I get to
the
O'Dell's it instantly freezes as soon as I open it. This remains the
case for each O'Dell's no matter what part of the fridge it came
from,
but is never the case for the other two brews no matter what part of
the fridge they were chilling in.

Can anyone explain this?

Chris

Could be lower alcohol content in O'Dell's.
Could be higher CO2 pressure in O'Dell's.
Could be both.

The alcohol content makes sense to me. But, while I can see how the
higher CO2 pressure would keep the O'Dell's from freezing while
sealed, I'm not clear on how it would prompt freezing when the
pressure is released. (Not playing "gotcha", just geniunely curious)

I have't had the O'Dell's, but IMHO the Sierra Nevada doesn't need to
be anywhere near freezing to be palatable.

CO2 contributed to two factors beer freezing upon opening a bottle of
beer.

First since Beer is mostly water, and water melts under pressure. (think
how
skiing and ice skating works) the pressure from the CO2 retards freezing
prior to opening. once the bottle is open this "anti-freezing" function
stops being present.

Secondly when gasses expand they cool. This is the bases of all
refrigeration units; mechanically compress a gas, cool it to room
temperature, then let it expand thus extracting heat then repeat. The CO2
expanding and bubbling out of the beer will cool the beer slightly.

Sounds like an invention for the next beer revolution, self cooling cans.
Anyone want to invest?

I think it is time to start rec.skiing.alpine.science

--
Stephen B.
NYC - Carpe Skium
To reply remove the first spam only

To separate the alcohol and CO2 effects, open one can of SN and one can of O
'Dell's (you can pour out and drink one half of each can) and put the half
empty cans back into the refrigerator. At this point the two beers in the
open cans should have about the same amount of CO2. If both freeze or
neither freezes, you just wasted some beer, but one has to make sacrifices
for science!

C'mon Ernie, would you rather live in a world without science or a
world without beer. I mean science is ok, but sacrifice beer? I
think not.

Chris

If the O'Dell's freezes and SN does not, then the higher alcohol (plus
sugars, salts, soluble proteins, etc) is keeping the SN from freezing. If
O'Dell's does not freeze then the freezing during opening was caused by the
expansion cooling of CO2.

Ernie

In article ,
Walt writes:
more carbonation
- more pressure in the bottle
- more expansion when the bottle is opened
- more cooling effect due to expansion of the gas
- beer slushy.

So how come the same thing happens to bottles of water at the local
theater? Flat water, not carbonated.
They take it out of their little fridge still liquid, but by the time you
get to your seat it has frozen.

Bruno.

"Miko the pooch" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Walt writes:
more carbonation
- more pressure in the bottle
- more expansion when the bottle is opened
- more cooling effect due to expansion of the gas
- beer slushy.

So how come the same thing happens to bottles of water at the local
theater? Flat water, not carbonated.
They take it out of their little fridge still liquid, but by the time you
get to your seat it has frozen.

Bruno.

It is likely that the bottle was in the fridge for a relatively short time,
and the water is super cooled, that is, the temperature of the water is
below the freezing point but has not frozen yet. When the bottle is shaken
the crystals get nucleated and the water freezes.

Ernie

On Feb 22, 8:52 pm, "bumpfreaq" wrote:
Ok, here's a sciency query for y'all.

I get to my motel with plenty of beer. I've got Sierra Nevada Pale
Ale, Sierra Nevada Wheat and O'Dell's 5 Barrel Pale Ale. The mini
fridge isn't quite chilly enough so I ratchet the thermostat down a
bit then load in the bottles, filling up each available space in turn
but rotating the different flavors so that I have ready access to
whatever suits my momentary fancy. The next evening when I return
"home" from skiing I select a wheat beer and it's quite frosty. Next
up is a SNPA, of course it's mighty chilly as well. When I get to the
O'Dell's it instantly freezes as soon as I open it. This remains the
case for each O'Dell's no matter what part of the fridge it came from,
but is never the case for the other two brews no matter what part of
the fridge they were chilling in.

Can anyone explain this?

Chris

Beyond the coldest beer in town
Sept. 21, 2000

The proper temperature is essential for beer enjoyment. A beer served
too cold will withhold most of its flavor. But while serving beer at
room temperature brings out the flavors and aromas and is appropriate
when judging beer, most drinkers prefer something cooler. Some general
guidelines:

- Serve fruit beers at 40-50° F.
- Serve wheat beers and pale lagers at 45-50° F.
- Serve pale ales and amber or dark lagers at 50-55° F.
- Serve strong ales, such as barley wines and Belgian ales, at 50-55°
F.
- Serve dark ales, including porters and stouts, at 55-60° F.

In "Ultimate Beer," Michael Jackson suggests a serving temperatures
for each of the 450 beers covered in the book. Here are a few of those
suggestions:

My 2 cents.

On Feb 27, 12:13 pm, wrote:
On Feb 22, 8:52 pm, "bumpfreaq" wrote:



Ok, here's a sciency query for y'all.

I get to my motel with plenty of beer. I've got Sierra Nevada Pale
Ale, Sierra Nevada Wheat and O'Dell's 5 Barrel Pale Ale. The mini
fridge isn't quite chilly enough so I ratchet the thermostat down a
bit then load in the bottles, filling up each available space in turn
but rotating the different flavors so that I have ready access to
whatever suits my momentary fancy. The next evening when I return
"home" from skiing I select a wheat beer and it's quite frosty. Next
up is a SNPA, of course it's mighty chilly as well. When I get to the
O'Dell's it instantly freezes as soon as I open it. This remains the
case for each O'Dell's no matter what part of the fridge it came from,
but is never the case for the other two brews no matter what part of
the fridge they were chilling in.

Can anyone explain this?

Chris

Beyond the coldest beer in town
Sept. 21, 2000

The proper temperature is essential for beer enjoyment. A beer served
too cold will withhold most of its flavor. But while serving beer at
room temperature brings out the flavors and aromas and is appropriate
when judging beer, most drinkers prefer something cooler. Some general
guidelines:

- Serve fruit beers at 40-50° F.
- Serve wheat beers and pale lagers at 45-50° F.
- Serve pale ales and amber or dark lagers at 50-55° F.
- Serve strong ales, such as barley wines and Belgian ales, at 50-55°
F.
- Serve dark ales, including porters and stouts, at 55-60° F.

In "Ultimate Beer," Michael Jackson suggests a serving temperatures
for each of the 450 beers covered in the book. Here are a few of those
suggestions:

My 2 cents.

I can't live by your rules, man.

Chris

bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 27, 12:13 pm, wrote:

- Serve fruit beers at 40-50° F.
- Serve wheat beers and pale lagers at 45-50° F.
- Serve pale ales and amber or dark lagers at 50-55° F.
- Serve strong ales, such as barley wines and Belgian ales, at 50-55°
F.
- Serve dark ales, including porters and stouts, at 55-60° F.

I can't live by your rules, man.

Yeah, he lost me with the fruit beers.

*FRUIT* beer? WTF?

//Walt

On Feb 27, 10:46 pm, Walt wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 27, 12:13 pm, wrote:

- Serve fruit beers at 40-50° F.
- Serve wheat beers and pale lagers at 45-50° F.
- Serve pale ales and amber or dark lagers at 50-55° F.
- Serve strong ales, such as barley wines and Belgian ales, at 50-55°
F.
- Serve dark ales, including porters and stouts, at 55-60° F.

I can't live by your rules, man.

Yeah, he lost me with the fruit beers.

*FRUIT* beer? WTF?

//Walt

Years ago I was hitchhiking in Belgium with my gf. A guy picked us up
and put us up for the night. He and his wife took us out for a night
on the town (Bruges). He ordered drinks for all of us; some sort of
dark ale for he and I, and raspberry something or other "for the
women". Her reaction was, "*FRUIT* beer? WTF?" ...or something
equivalent.

Chris