Controlling Speed Down the Fall Line

On 2004-01-14, Richard Walsh penned:

"Fear is the mind-killer..." Frank Herbert, *Dune*

What Monique said... What LAL said...

AND, books are good, real live teachers are great, but the best
teacher of all is mileage. Mileage build confidence like nothing else.
All good skiers have lots of mile on their skis (boots, bodies and all
that's attached).


Ah, yeah, I knew I was pseudo-quoting someone!

I agree that lots of miles are necessary, but I also think that lessons
accelerate the learning process to a surprising degree. But hey, the
fewer lessons everyone else takes, the more private lessons I get -- no
complaints here!

--
monique

I found the Breakthrough on Ski's video on Amazon, but no book.
Pray for good weather this Thursday. I'll watch a video and head up for
a lesson. Maybe a couple of fresh feet of snow late Wednesday
afternoon (cleared from the road by morning). Am I asking too much!

Thanks Everybody,

JS

lal_truckee wrote:
John Smith wrote:

I posted this message over a week ago! And it finally shows up today.
Go figure.

Thanks all for the answers.

I guess, one of the things I'm trying to understand is, what is it
that a good skiier is doing as they seem to be moving straight down
the hill (the fall line as they see it) and they are smoothly making
tight rapid turns (or are they just moving skis from side to side).
Maybe they aren't trying to slow down; maybe they're going as fast as
they can but aren't dealing with the fear factor of falling and being
unable to meet the mortgage while they're laid up. Anyway, they look
great doing what they're doing; which to me is moving down the fall
line at their chosen speed (that is, obviously under control).


You know, you've just re-stated Lito's premise from his justifiably
famous (and the best) book on how to ski, "Breakthrough on Skis" (or the
new edition "Breakthrough on the New Skis") where he points out that
good skiers are "always turning" and proceeds to build a discipline
around that observation.

Good skiers are always turning - there's no moment of hesitation between
one turn and the next; IMO it's that moment of hesitation when unwanted
speed builds up and nerves cringe. If you're always turning and a nerve
twitches, you can just hold the turn a moment more and reduce speed
slightly (but you won't need too, really but if you hesitate betweeen
turns, speed builds and you have to *Do Something* to regain control.
That's a bad thing - it means action must be taken, instead of action
merely postponed. Leads to panic.

Good skiers are always turning.



My kids are switching to snowboards, so while they're taking board
lessons, I'll be taking my own.


Good idea. Then get and read Lito Tejeda-Flores' book.


Enjoy the snow!
JS

MattB wrote:

John Smith wrote:

I'm an intermediate skier. I need more lessons. These things I know
are true. And one other truth I know is that I frequently feel out of
control when I try to ski the fall line. When I ski the fall line I
feel like I'm just going faster and faster and beyond my comfort zone.
As I approach that discomfort zone, I stop or I begin wide slow
traverses of the run.

I'm not so worried about speed as I am about control; I can't afford
time off from work due to injuries.

What's involved, technically, in maintaining a controlled speed when
skiing the fall line (I'm tired of imitating the ball rolling down the
hill at the mercy of gravity)?

JS




Lots of turns. Hard edging (if it's firm).

Maybe yours turns (assuming you are making some) don't have enough
"bite"
and you're really just sliding back and forth. If that sounds like
what you
are doing try using more angulation (going farther onto your edge by
driving
your hip and knee inward).

Like you mentioned, more instruction would probably help as we can't see
what's going on. Sometimes a lesson with video so you can see
yourself is a
big help. Hope that helps!

Matt

"John Smith" wrote in message
m...
I'm an intermediate skier. I need more lessons. These things I know
are true. And one other truth I know is that I frequently feel out of
control when I try to ski the fall line. When I ski the fall line I
feel like I'm just going faster and faster and beyond my comfort zone.
As I approach that discomfort zone, I stop or I begin wide slow
traverses of the run.

I'm not so worried about speed as I am about control; I can't afford
time off from work due to injuries.

What's involved, technically, in maintaining a controlled speed when
skiing the fall line (I'm tired of imitating the ball rolling down the
hill at the mercy of gravity)?

JS

Turn shape and radius is what decides how fast you go.

Shape: The more you point your skis across the hill, the more you slow
down. You want your turns to be round and C shaped. If you pull the turn
all the way around before you start your next one, you'll have scrubbed tons
of speed. If you barely make it past the fall line, you'll be flying.

Radius : Tight turns scrub more speed than big sweeping ones, in part
because you're not pointed down the fall line so much.

Play around with the combination of the two and you'll feel much more in
control. Big Radius, Near-fall line turns are SUPER fast, Small Radius
Cross-hill turns are SUPER slow. Remember that speed can be your friend
though - to a point, its much harder to ski slowly than it is to ski
somewhat fast. Ski just a teeny tiny bit faster than you feel comfortable
doing, and you'll feel more comfortable at speeds. Then flip it around and
try to ski super slow, but with good technique still. Try to do the same
radius turns for both, so you get the feeling of the difference.

And when you're more comfortable, you're more relaxed, which leads to better
technique and better skiing.

But do me a favor and go take a lesson!

Jon Bond
PSIA Level 1 Alpine

"Kneale Brownson" wrote in message
om...
John Smith wrote in message
om...
I'm an intermediate skier. I need more lessons. These things I know
are true. And one other truth I know is that I frequently feel out of
control when I try to ski the fall line. When I ski the fall line I
feel like I'm just going faster and faster and beyond my comfort zone.
As I approach that discomfort zone, I stop or I begin wide slow
traverses of the run.

I'm not so worried about speed as I am about control; I can't afford
time off from work due to injuries.

What's involved, technically, in maintaining a controlled speed when
skiing the fall line (I'm tired of imitating the ball rolling down the
hill at the mercy of gravity)?

JS


The "secret" is to not get going too fast in the first place. The
technique is to let each turn continue (even back up the hill if
necessary) until you've reached a comfortable speed. Realize that the
beginning of each turn is going to make your skis accelerate because
they point downhill to start the turn. Then let that turn continue
until your pace is comfortable. If you try to make several turns that
end with the skis still pointing somewhat downhill, you will be
gaining speed with each turn. Finally, you will have to really
"brake" to get your speed back into the comfort zone. The most
effective way to turn as I've described is to think about turning the
right ski to the right when you want to go that direction and the left
ski to the left for that direction. If you think in terms of turning
right by pushing out the left ski, you end up skidding the tail of
that ski and cannot turn sufficiently uphill to really get slowing out
of the turns.

Find an instructor who will talk about turning the right ski to turn
right and the left to turn left and then sign up for a lesson.


Um, very few if any instructors will tell you that. With straight skis,
maybe - but even then, its still pretty bad technique. You don't ski one
ski at a time - you ski with a harmony between the two (unless, of course,
you're doing one ski drills... but I digress). You want to steer the
inside ski some, but thats far different than turning the inside ski.
Thinking about turning just the inside ski is asking for that awkward
toes-out stance that automatically throws your weight back, and thats a much
bigger problem to deal with. There is a steering component, but
oversimplifying it by saying "turn the inside ski" is a huge mistake. ANY
competent instructor will be able to help you with speed control - its one
of those basic things you need to teach, so you figure out how to best do it
REAL quickly.

As for never getting too fast, thats ok - but when you understand how to
control your speed, you understand how to slow down to your comfort speed by
changing your turn shape, which is an imperitive skill. For practice, you
don't want to let yourself get too fast, but never going out of your comfort
zone will not promote further learning.

Jon Bond
PSIA Level 1 Alpine

lal_truckee wrote in
:

John Smith wrote:

I posted this message over a week ago! And it finally shows up
today. Go figure.

Thanks all for the answers.

I guess, one of the things I'm trying to understand is, what is it
that a good skiier is doing as they seem to be moving straight down
the hill (the fall line as they see it) and they are smoothly making
tight rapid turns (or are they just moving skis from side to side).
Maybe they aren't trying to slow down; maybe they're going as fast as
they can but aren't dealing with the fear factor of falling and being
unable to meet the mortgage while they're laid up. Anyway, they look
great doing what they're doing; which to me is moving down the fall
line at their chosen speed (that is, obviously under control).

You know, you've just re-stated Lito's premise from his justifiably
famous (and the best) book on how to ski, "Breakthrough on Skis" (or
the new edition "Breakthrough on the New Skis") where he points out
that good skiers are "always turning" and proceeds to build a
discipline around that observation.

I bought that book last year, started to read it, and got distracted with
other stuff to the point that I completely forgot about it. Thanks for
reminding me. It's time to break it back out and start over.
--
Chuck
Remove "_nospam" to reply by email

Reality check. It's been years since I saw myself ski on video, but last
weekend a cameraman at Taos paid me very big bucks and here's the result:
http://skitaos.org/MOUNTAIN/Video20040113.php

I look at this and grimace: I pick all kinds of holes in my own technique.
But compare the short turn/fall line sequence to the long-round-turn
sequence and you'll see that in the short turn the pole plant is prepared
earlier; the upper body is more erect and stable; weight is consistently on
the balls of the feet (shin pressed against boot tongues). Speed of the
upper body in both sets of turns is constant, but the skis are always
accelerating or decelerating smoothly as the legs cross under.

Nice part of this medium is that you can stop it at any point, slow it down,
run it back.

Gal in blue is Cindy Hirschfeld, a Level 2 instructor at Aspen Highlands.

Seth
Level 3 Alpine


"Jon Bond" wrote in message
...
"John Smith" wrote in message
m...
I'm an intermediate skier. I need more lessons. These things I know
are true. And one other truth I know is that I frequently feel out of
control when I try to ski the fall line. When I ski the fall line I
feel like I'm just going faster and faster and beyond my comfort zone.
As I approach that discomfort zone, I stop or I begin wide slow
traverses of the run.

I'm not so worried about speed as I am about control; I can't afford
time off from work due to injuries.

What's involved, technically, in maintaining a controlled speed when
skiing the fall line (I'm tired of imitating the ball rolling down the
hill at the mercy of gravity)?

JS

Turn shape and radius is what decides how fast you go.

Shape: The more you point your skis across the hill, the more you slow
down. You want your turns to be round and C shaped. If you pull the turn
all the way around before you start your next one, you'll have scrubbed
tons
of speed. If you barely make it past the fall line, you'll be flying.

Radius : Tight turns scrub more speed than big sweeping ones, in part
because you're not pointed down the fall line so much.

Play around with the combination of the two and you'll feel much more in
control. Big Radius, Near-fall line turns are SUPER fast, Small Radius
Cross-hill turns are SUPER slow. Remember that speed can be your friend
though - to a point, its much harder to ski slowly than it is to ski
somewhat fast. Ski just a teeny tiny bit faster than you feel comfortable
doing, and you'll feel more comfortable at speeds. Then flip it around
and
try to ski super slow, but with good technique still. Try to do the same
radius turns for both, so you get the feeling of the difference.

And when you're more comfortable, you're more relaxed, which leads to
better
technique and better skiing.

But do me a favor and go take a lesson!

Jon Bond
PSIA Level 1 Alpine

lal_truckee wrote:

Good skiers are always turning.

To turn is to admit defeat.
-Hugh Grierson

-klaus

klaus wrote:
lal_truckee wrote:


Good skiers are always turning.


To turn is to admit defeat.
-Hugh Grierson

-klaus

I didn't know you had some real 225 DH skis to suppliment your leetle
cable rig. Good for you.

In article ,
wrote:

I didn't know you had some real 225 DH skis to suppliment your leetle
cable rig. Good for you.


Chicks dig skin-tight plastified body suits...

cheers,
john

John Red-Horse wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

I didn't know you had some real 225 DH skis to suppliment your leetle
cable rig. Good for you.


Chicks dig skin-tight plastified body suits...

Especially with the faring at the back of the lower leg and a Darth
Vader helmet.