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#31
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In article . net, Varanasi Benares wrote: All the above is much easier with the aid of a good bootfitter (I'm tempted to say impossible for the newbie, without the aid of a good bootfitter.) I know that this is the standard advice, and I don't intend to disagree with it. (I have a quibble below.) My problem is that it never works for me because the fit of new boots and the fit of boots used 10 and 20 times is so different. I simply don't buy enough boots (and will never buy enough boots) to know just how tight boots should feel in the store. Bootfitters, even experienced ones, aren't very helpful on this point. They naturally need to ask things like: "Does it feel tight enough?" or "Is it snug around the ankle?" I have to answer - assuming the boot is in the ball park, "I guess so." I can also say things like "It's tighter than the last one" but I can't really tell if the boot is tight enough that once it packs out, it will fit. [snip] Here's my quibble with lal's advice: nearly everyone who sells boots thinks they are good bootfitters. Most shop employees in most shops are new. They have taken a training program - maybe - and done fittings for a couple months. Those who have been around for awhile seem either jaded or they own the place. They can usually ski in anything and have used dozens of boots. Naturally, they are a bit impatient with people like me who can't tell if the boots are too tight and are very concerned about getting things just right before shelling out a bundle of money. They also know that the truth is that the boots will fit very differently in a month. (I suppose this also varies by manufacturer and year. I should add that I have "good feet." They are perhaps a bit unusual in shape, but I never find myself in pain because of footwear or ski boots. _ You have never been to a "real" bootfitter. They are very rare to find and you will never find one further than about a 10 minute drive from a ski resort. Most ski towns have one, ask the locals. It's not easy, but it's well worth it if you're having problems. Lal is lucky, he lives close to Cosmo's[1]. _ A real bootfitter will spend the time with you to get it right and not ask the stupid questions above. The questions asked will be specific and useful. A real bootfitter wants to see you again in a month to check the fit. He'll tell you exactly how the liner will pack out based on the manufacturer. It's like night and day from the typical boot buying experience. _ Booker C. Bense [1]- Cosmo's custom bootwerks. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED if you're in the Lake Tahoe area. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBQAlsIWTWTAjn5N/lAQGVjgQAvMMuCWtAgRKPuZwlMlwsUa7pv0y0vfVy NBov3u0G9nj3mrRMMn1eamRvIVFhH2Qtp/fci6BwRCBd512Z44fbkfyHDw1eAuTp t9vLFTY1bBmLwNSj9rW7pT+u3DOdHrSz32nj0OIN4rjRHFpZEm QKb23xpxM/sfZ7 3FM0cEjAfj4= =YSd2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
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#32
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On 2004-01-17, Varanasi Benares penned:
[snip] I should add that I have "good feet." They are perhaps a bit unusual in shape, but I never find myself in pain because of footwear or ski boots. In that case, why are you concerned about finding a good boot fitter? It sounds like you're doing all right. Er, I don't mean to sound snippy. Just jealous, is all. Of course there are still issues of performance and whatnot that need to be addressed, even if your feet aren't aching. I have great feet for being barefoot =) Unfortunately, it's hard to ski that way. -- monique |
#33
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[snip]
I simply don't buy enough boots (and will never buy enough boots) to know just how tight boots should feel in the store. Bootfitters, even experienced ones, aren't very helpful on this point. They naturally need to ask things like: "Does it feel tight enough?" or "Is it snug around the ankle?" I have to answer - assuming the boot is in the ball park, "I guess so." I can also say things like "It's tighter than the last one" but I can't really tell if the boot is tight enough that once it packs out, it will fit. [snip] Here's my quibble with lal's advice: nearly everyone who sells boots thinks they are good bootfitters. [snip] _ You have never been to a "real" bootfitter. They are very rare to find and you will never find one further than about a 10 minute drive from a ski resort. Most ski towns have one, ask the locals. It's not easy, but it's well worth it if you're having problems. Lal is lucky, he lives close to Cosmo's[1]. _ A real bootfitter will spend the time with you to get it right and not ask the stupid questions above. The questions asked will be specific and useful. A real bootfitter wants to see you again in a month to check the fit. He'll tell you exactly how the liner will pack out based on the manufacturer. It's like night and day from the typical boot buying experience. What questions does a good bootfitter ask? Seriously. |
#34
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"Varanasi Benares" wrote in message
hlink.net... [snip] I simply don't buy enough boots (and will never buy enough boots) to know just how tight boots should feel in the store. Bootfitters, even experienced ones, aren't very helpful on this point. They naturally need to ask things like: "Does it feel tight enough?" or "Is it snug around the ankle?" I have to answer - assuming the boot is in the ball park, "I guess so." I can also say things like "It's tighter than the last one" but I can't really tell if the boot is tight enough that once it packs out, it will fit. [snip] Here's my quibble with lal's advice: nearly everyone who sells boots thinks they are good bootfitters. [snip] _ You have never been to a "real" bootfitter. They are very rare to find and you will never find one further than about a 10 minute drive from a ski resort. Most ski towns have one, ask the locals. It's not easy, but it's well worth it if you're having problems. Lal is lucky, he lives close to Cosmo's[1]. _ A real bootfitter will spend the time with you to get it right and not ask the stupid questions above. The questions asked will be specific and useful. A real bootfitter wants to see you again in a month to check the fit. He'll tell you exactly how the liner will pack out based on the manufacturer. It's like night and day from the typical boot buying experience. What questions does a good bootfitter ask? Seriously. Its not so much what happens when you put a boot on as what happens BEFORE you put a boot on. First things first, they should look at your feet, without socks, as you stand, then get in a ski stance (dynamically), and decide if you need orthotics (which are more expensive but make a HUGE difference in skiing if you need them) or not. A GOOD bootfitter won't sell you something you don't need, so don't think they're just trying to get more cash out of you. Sometime in here they'll ask what kind of skiing you do, what you're looking for, and so on. Next they'll measure your foot, both in length, and from the heel around the front of your ankle. This is where a ski boot needs to grab you to have control, so its an important measurement. They then decide what boot model they want to put you in. Note that THEY decide, not you - there may be boots on a wall, but they won't even bring you over to look, they'll just go get a model or two from the back room. Usually, they'll grab two sizes, one for each foot. This allows a side by side comparison. They SHOULD pull the liner completely out of the boot and put your bare foot in the shell, to make sure that the SHELL fits. This is your important fit - liners pack out, but if the shell is the right size, it'll still fit. They look for about 1-2cm space around the heel with your toes touching the front. This is either done barefoot or in super thin socks, so it fits you, not your foot with sock. Then they'll throw you in two different sizes, tighten them up for you, and ask you if it feels comfortable, where it's tight, and so on. If they're concerned about a certain area, they'll ask specifically - "Does it feel like its tight around the bottom of your ankle/top of your foot?". Some things they can change - got spots, points where the shell is a tiny bit too close to your boot, a little bit of toe room - but they can't change everything. Then they'll work with you from there to make the boot fit you best. This is where they'll build orthotics, shave boot shell, and so on. My experience, even though I haven't walked away with boots yet, totally convinced me bootfitting is worth it. Despite spending well over 45 minutes with me just on the boot finding stage, he wouldn't sell me boots. Even the $800 Rossi Race room boots that fit best. He said no off the wall boots would fit me ... ever. I might get kinda close, but I'll never be totally happy, and he wouldn't have me walk out with a pair of boots that didn't fit well. He suggested foaming, or another liner, which he didn't have. He knew I had come up a ways to get there, so he offered to get a list of places in boston that did foaming or had decent techs that could get the liners from me. Remember, I hadn't given him a dime for all his time. Of course, I opted to take another trip up once he could get liners (which I ended up having to get from a store in colorado he knew had them, because he couldn't get any from the company - so he didn't even make any money on the expensive flow liners!) He even looked at my OLD boots to see if we could throw the liner in them and make them fit, so he could save me some money. (they wouldn't work, they're HUGE on me). That is good boot fitting. Jon Bond |
#35
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bbense+rec.skiing.alpine.moderated.Jan.17.04@telem ark.slac.stanford.edu
wrote: Lal is lucky, he lives close to Cosmo's[1]. Luck has nothing to do with it. Merely select where you live to correspond with the requirements of your life. Which of course should include good skiing, good mtn biking, good backcountry, good climbing, and good hiking. And good weather (snow and sun) and good air and good people. And, of course, good ski shops, and good bootfitters. [1]- Cosmo's custom bootwerks. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED if you're in the Lake Tahoe area. High season - you need to book a fitting ahead of time, particularly if you're a weekender. Look the number up on the web or 411 it - I don't want to provide it here for all the spammers in the world. Actually it's "Cosmo's Custom Footwerks" |
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