Skiing and Hypothermia

I'm a mechanical engineering student doing a project to make a device
that combats hypothermia. This is not a device to keep you warm, but
rather to warm you up if you were to get hypothermia.

I guess since I don't really ski, I'm having a hard time gauging what
things are important and where / when this kind of device would be
used. (if there is even a need for it)

I was wondering how many skiers get hypothermic?
Do people carry any devices to treat hypothermia?
Would you want to carry a device with you as a first aid device or use
it when you once you get home / car?
How imporant are things like : weight, shape, attractiveness, power
sources, rustproof, etc.

When you talk about making a new product, you have to consider how
much it will cost to make. What would be considered expensive?

Any information you could provide would be very helpful.

Just some background: we found a study that says if you can apply heat
to the palm of a hand and at the same time put the hand in a vaccuum
chamber you can increase heat transfer to the body about six times
faster than any other type of heating. This essentially means you can
take the person out of hypothermia in about 20 min. There is a company
that has the technology patented
but for use in hospitals.

My assignment is to come up with a similar type of device, but see if
any other people would have any use for it.

Thanks,
Ren

Ren wrote:

I'm a mechanical engineering student doing a project to make a device
that combats hypothermia. This is not a device to keep you warm, but
rather to warm you up if you were to get hypothermia.

I guess since I don't really ski, I'm having a hard time gauging what
things are important and where / when this kind of device would be
used. (if there is even a need for it)

Serious hypothermia is a problem for people who get lost in the
backcountry. If a device were small enough to be carried by a search
and rescue team, and it could treat both moderate and severe
hypothermia, I think it would be quite useful. As of now, a bad case
of hypothermia has to wait for treatment until the victim is
hospitalized. Typical "in the field" treatment for hypothermia is to
make the victim into a human burrito:

http://www.sonoransar.org/hypothermiawrap.htm

I was wondering how many skiers get hypothermic?

No idea. Keeping warm is something an experienced backcountry skier
takes pretty seriously.

Do people carry any devices to treat hypothermia?

As far as I know, the burrito method is the only one that gets used
in the field.

Just some background: we found a study that says if you can apply heat
to the palm of a hand and at the same time put the hand in a vaccuum
chamber you can increase heat transfer to the body about six times
faster than any other type of heating. This essentially means you can
take the person out of hypothermia in about 20 min.

Interesting. FWIW, 599 people in the USA died of hypothermia in
2001. No idea how many of them were skiers.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://ski.terrymorse.com/

Terry Morse wrote:

Typical "in the field" treatment for hypothermia is to
make the victim into a human burrito:

http://www.sonoransar.org/hypothermiawrap.htm

I prefer the two fat girl sandwich; all rescue parties should include
two fat girls.

Ren wrote:
I'm a mechanical engineering student doing a project to make a device
that combats hypothermia. This is not a device to keep you warm, but
rather to warm you up if you were to get hypothermia.

I guess since I don't really ski, I'm having a hard time gauging what
things are important and where / when this kind of device would be
used. (if there is even a need for it)

I was wondering how many skiers get hypothermic?
Do people carry any devices to treat hypothermia?
Would you want to carry a device with you as a first aid device or use
it when you once you get home / car?
How imporant are things like : weight, shape, attractiveness, power
sources, rustproof, etc.

When you talk about making a new product, you have to consider how
much it will cost to make. What would be considered expensive?

Any information you could provide would be very helpful.

Just some background: we found a study that says if you can apply heat
to the palm of a hand and at the same time put the hand in a vaccuum
chamber you can increase heat transfer to the body about six times
faster than any other type of heating. This essentially means you can
take the person out of hypothermia in about 20 min. There is a company
that has the technology patented
but for use in hospitals.

My assignment is to come up with a similar type of device, but see if
any other people would have any use for it.

Thanks,
Ren

Ren:

Eight years ago, I had to treat a early-stage 2 hypothermia victim (post
shivering, blood moves from extremities to body core and mental functions
start to fail) on a backcountry ski near Vail. Warming the person up with
other people and other people's extra cloths did the trick and once the
victim "came to their senses", they skied out on their own. I have a
reputation for carrying a big first aid kit, but personally, over the years,
I have learned to keep the "gadgets" out. The properly prepared BC skier
should have enough extra cloths to treat the hypothermina victim and a small
group can easily provide the necessary body heat.

Steve

I think you need to split your thinking into two targets.
One is backcountry skiers. The other is rescue groups.

Suppose your gadget weighs 10 pounds. As a skier, I wouldn't
carry it. I'd take 10 pounds of more useful gear: warm clothes
or repair stuff. (And then I'd look at the pile and leave some
of it behind.)

On the other hand, if a rescue group is going out, 10 pounds
that would help rewarm somebody might be a good choice.

You should probably get an MD to consult. (I'm not one, so
read this with the appropriate reservations.) When somebody
gets seriously cold, they have a lot of cold blood in their
arms/legs. If you warm them up too fast, you can get the
circulation going before you get the peripheral areas warmed up.
That brings cold blood into the core area and may make things
worse rather than better.

Burito or sandwitch style rewarming is probably slow enough to
avoid this problem.

Years ago (maybe too many to make this interesting) I remember
a story about the Army/NaticK cold weather research group working
on something to keep soldiers warm by applying external heat. I
think they used an external source of hot water and a heat-blanket
across the back. The part I remember was that they had to get the
water hot enough to burn the skin in order to get enough heat
transfered to keep the soldier warm. (Maybe the rest of him was
naked. I don't remember.) Maybe the back isn't a good heat conductor.


I was wondering how many skiers get hypothermic?
Do people carry any devices to treat hypothermia?

Not many, at least in the group I hang out with. (California doesn't get
much serious cold.)

It's easier to avoid hypothermia than treat it. An old joke is that
the primary symptom of hypothermia is low IQ. You better hope that
your friends are smart enough to notice that you are in trouble and
that they will take care of you.

When you talk about making a new product, you have to consider how
much it will cost to make. What would be considered expensive?

Are you targeting individual skiers or rescue groups?

Most backcountry skiers carry an avalanche beeper. They cost
several hundred $. Each year, several/many skiers get killed in
an avalanche but few (none?) get killed by hypothermia.

On the other hand, a rescue group is more likely to run into cold
or hypothermia. (If nothing else, they have to worry about rescuers
getting cold standing around waiting for something to happen.)
$100 to $1000 is a reasonable ballpark for something that works and
is simple to use and easy to take care of. If your gadget costs
$10K, I doubt if you will sell many. If it costs $10, every rescue
group would get one (or several), just in case.

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These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.

"Ren" wrote in message
om...
I'm a mechanical engineering student doing a project to make a device
that combats hypothermia. This is not a device to keep you warm, but
rather to warm you up if you were to get hypothermia.

I guess since I don't really ski, I'm having a hard time gauging what
things are important and where / when this kind of device would be
used. (if there is even a need for it)

I was wondering how many skiers get hypothermic?
Do people carry any devices to treat hypothermia?
Would you want to carry a device with you as a first aid device or use
it when you once you get home / car?
How imporant are things like : weight, shape, attractiveness, power
sources, rustproof, etc.

When you talk about making a new product, you have to consider how
much it will cost to make. What would be considered expensive?

Any information you could provide would be very helpful.

Just some background: we found a study that says if you can apply heat
to the palm of a hand and at the same time put the hand in a vaccuum
chamber you can increase heat transfer to the body about six times
faster than any other type of heating. This essentially means you can
take the person out of hypothermia in about 20 min. There is a company
that has the technology patented
but for use in hospitals.

My assignment is to come up with a similar type of device, but see if
any other people would have any use for it.

Thanks,
Ren

I would suggest contacting Dr. Gordon Giesbrecht at the University of
Manitoba. He is a leading authority on hypothermia and an avid backcountry
sportsman. I saw him discuss portable devices to treat hypothermia in the
field at the recent Wilderness Medical Society winter meeting in Jackson,
WY. Here's a link to his web site:

http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/ph...esbrecht.shtml

I don't know your resources or time constraints, but you might want to go to
the Wilderness Medical Society summer meeting. This would be an opportunity
to network with Mountaineers, Skiers, etc. who are also nurses, doctors,
paramedics, search and rescue leaders, etc. It is a very open and friendly
group of people. It would also be an excellent excuse to visit
Aspen/Snowmass.

http://www.wms.org/
http://www.wms.org/conferences/snowmass/index.html

On 17-Apr-2004, (Hal Murray) wrote:

Not many, at least in the group I hang out with. (California doesn't get
much serious cold.)

1. Maybe not where you hang out. As with all other general statements
about California, this one doesn't hold up too well.

2. Hypothermia doesn't require extreme cold, just as HAPE and HACE don't
require extreme altitude. Any temperature below about 70 degrees can easily
lead to hypothermia, especailly when combined with moisture (from humidity
to sweat to a dowsing), cotton clothing, no hat, you name it.

A nifty instant-warming device? Sounds like the fuel cell myth of free
energy from nothing. Will it be powered by a small nuclear device?

I considered developing such a gadget 25 years ago too. I never did
anything thinking the demand would be too small. My limited research
concluded that for mild hypothermia a hot bath does the trick, for more
severe hypothermia breathing hot humid air works best - and this is the
gadget I envisaged making. If you immerse a body in hot water you take
blood from the core and that can kill you if the patient is very
hypothermic. Hot humid air warms the core directly but it must be done
carefully as there are problems of acidosis to control. If you incorporate
a feedback mechanism to monitor the rate of re-heating, that would solve
this concern. I think that the problem is that there are very few patients
suitable for this treatment as there is a small difference between severe
hypothermia requiring such treatment and fatally severe hypothermia and as
such very few suitable patients will present themselves. Your
skin-heating-vacuum-idea will not be appropriate in the same was as baths
are not appropriate.

Good luck let us know what you do.

"Ren" wrote in message
om...
I'm a mechanical engineering student doing a project to make a device
that combats hypothermia. This is not a device to keep you warm, but
rather to warm you up if you were to get hypothermia.

I guess since I don't really ski, I'm having a hard time gauging what
things are important and where / when this kind of device would be
used. (if there is even a need for it)

I was wondering how many skiers get hypothermic?
Do people carry any devices to treat hypothermia?
Would you want to carry a device with you as a first aid device or use
it when you once you get home / car?
How imporant are things like : weight, shape, attractiveness, power
sources, rustproof, etc.

When you talk about making a new product, you have to consider how
much it will cost to make. What would be considered expensive?

Any information you could provide would be very helpful.

Just some background: we found a study that says if you can apply heat
to the palm of a hand and at the same time put the hand in a vaccuum
chamber you can increase heat transfer to the body about six times
faster than any other type of heating. This essentially means you can
take the person out of hypothermia in about 20 min. There is a company
that has the technology patented
but for use in hospitals.

My assignment is to come up with a similar type of device, but see if
any other people would have any use for it.

Thanks,
Ren

Not many, at least in the group I hang out with. (California doesn't get
much serious cold.)

1. Maybe not where you hang out. As with all other general statements
about California, this one doesn't hold up too well.

Maybe I was being sloppy. Maybe its just spring time and my
memories of cold are fading.

What I was trying to say is that there are lots of things I worry
about before hypothermia. Breaking a ski or binding is probably
the top of the list. If somebody breaks a ski at the half way
point on a long day trip, they probably won't get out before dark
and somebody in the group might get cold.

2. Hypothermia doesn't require extreme cold, just as HAPE and HACE don't
require extreme altitude. Any temperature below about 70 degrees can easily
lead to hypothermia, especailly when combined with moisture (from humidity
to sweat to a dowsing), cotton clothing, no hat, you name it.

If I'm dumb enough to be using cotton and no hat, will I be smart
enough to use a hypothermia gizmo?

My usual wise crack about hypotheremia is that the main symptom
is low IQ. If you get it, you better hope your friends are smart
enough to recognize that you are in trouble.


I seem to remember seeing something about a makeshift rewarming
setup. Probably published in some magazine many many years ago.
I think it was an MSR stove heating water and a hand squeze pump.
I don't remember what went next to the victim. I assume it was
some sort of plastic sheet with lots of tubes for water flowing
through it. Is that standard medical gear?

Anybody remember that? It might have been a web page.

--
The suespammers.org mail server is located in California. So are all my
other mailboxes. Please do not send unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited
commercial e-mail to my suespammers.org address or any of my other addresses.
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.

Hi Ren

Basically I think: a product like your idea will only be used by rescue
teams.
If people do ressort skiing they never will carry something like a
"hitech-re-warmer" (and btw: Real hypothermia won't happen while ressort
skiing and the people who think they have it will go to the next hut and
drink another whiskey...).

If you are doing backcountry skiing then for hypothermia is valid what
is valid for other problems too, like avalanches, accidents etc: all
strategies go for preventing a problem instead of repairing the results.
When you are on a backcountry skiing tour, you will definitely have to
carry enough weights, so an additional "re-warmer" won't be your
backpack and the car will be miles away.

So a "re-warmer" tool will belong to the medical equipment of a rescue
team. My fear is that this will be covered by the hospital related patent.



This essentially means you can
take the person out of hypothermia in about 20 min.
I always thought that rewarming hypothermic persons too fast causes
severe problems; example ventricular fibrillation by the "Afterdrop" (I
am not sure it is the right word; in German it is called "Ploetzlicher
Bergungstod" which could be translated as "Sudden Rescue Death").

Florian

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