Two-way radio

Recommendations, folks for practical radios for the winter backcountry
environment? Technical data I have found isn't particularly helpful to
assess this.
Thanks,
Nick Branch




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Hello Nick,
If you just want short distance communication between skiers, most of
the Family Radio Service Transceivers (FRS) should be fine for up to a
mile away and do not require a license. The distance may be more or
less depending on terrain. Look for one with a longer antenna as they
perform better.

You can also buy the General Mobile Radio Service transceivers (GMRS).
These have a higher power output and are good for 2-5 miles depending
on terrain. However, they require a license. Operation of these
units without a license can carry a $10,000 fine and or prison
depending on the circumstances.

The best option that you have is to study for an FCC Amateur Radio
License - which is granted free to all pass the examination. The
examinations are far easier than they used to be and require
relatively little study.

Technically, going through an Amateur repeater with a broad-band
internet connection, you could talk around the world. Amateur Radio
repeaters are sophisticated and reliable systems which are sponsored
by various clubs and organizations. They are usually located on
mountain tops or towers to help greatly extend the range of a small
handheld or mobile transceiver.

If you want to know more, visit the American Radio Relay League (ARRL)
he http://www.arrl.org Contact them by e-mail and they can put you
in touch with some local Amateurs in your area that will give you a
demonstration of the powerful communications available and help guide
you towards getting a license.

Amateur radio operators have, over the years, contributed tremendously
to the evolution of wireless communications. Many of NASA's
astronauts are licensed and amateur radio is active in the space
programs.

* Transceiver means that the radio can transmit and receive a signal.
Technically, a cellular phone is a full duplex transceiver.


On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 06:51:26 -0500, "Nick Branch"
wrote:

Recommendations, folks for practical radios for the winter backcountry
environment? Technical data I have found isn't particularly helpful to
assess this.
Thanks,
Nick Branch




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-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

I use FRS radios mostly for skiing at downhill resorts, they work well.
I try to keep the group closer together in the backcountry, so no need
for radios if everyone is in sight. More info below.

FAMILY BAND RADIOS

A 1996 change in FCC regulations in the United States has created
a new radio service, the Family Radio Service, FRS. These are
UHF walkie-talkies, about half a watt output, with up to 14
channels. The most heavily promoted FRS radio is the Motorola
Talkabout series. Prices vary from $25 to $150 per radio.

I consider the single frequency radios without CTSS (quiet codes)
kind of useless, as you will hear all the other traffic on the
channel, and it will drive you crazy, unless you are in the
middle of nowhere. (I expected that this would happen, and a
friend told me that this did happen to them skiing at a large
Colorado ski area). The quiet codes do not prevent interference
or prevent other people from hearing you, but they do generally
prevent you from hearing other conversations on the channel.
This allows you to leave them on, turned up loud, so you will
hear your group and no one else. Most radios support an industry
standard set of 38 CTSS tones. (My Midland radio lists tone 1 as
67 Hz, and tone 38 as 250.3 Hz). Note that some radios use
other systems, such as digital tones, to do the same thing.
The disadvantage of the other systems is that they are not
industry-standard, so if your buddy has another brand of FRS
radio, your features could be incompatible.

Speaker-microphones are available for most radios, some have
headsets with voice-operated transmission (VOX) for maximum
convenience.

I would say that there are 3 key features for an FRS radio:

1. Keyboard lock, so you don't inadvertantly change channels when
somebody bumps the radio.

2. Multiple channels for busy areas, like ski resorts. (14
maximum, except 22 for FRS/GMRS radios, which I do not recommend)

3. Quiet codes (usually 38) for busy areas.

I figure a range of one half to two miles, (1-3km) depending on
terrain, for most use. For range, hold the radio in front of
your face, not next to your body, where you lose a lot of signal
due to the proximity of your body. I use mine mostly for skiing
with family members, where I can keep in contact with different
groups scattered around the ski area. If you use them for skiing
you will need a harness or lanyard or some way to avoid dropping
them and losing them. From high on the mountain, range is very
good.

FRS Limitations: Since FRS radios, by regulation, cannot connect
to external antennas, they have a very limited range from inside
a metal vehicle. An external antenna would enhance range from
inside buildings or other locations as well. Not useful for
emergency help, since most users use the privacy feature, so they
probably will not hear you even if you can hear them.

ALTERNATIVES TO FRS:

Ham Radio 2 meters works very well, but requires a test and
license for each operator. Walkie-talkie direct range is a
little better than FRS. With external antennas and more powerful
radios 10 to 20 miles is typical. Repeaters allow greatly
enhanced range, 30 to even 100 miles. Good for emergency help.
It's really a hobby, not a convenience service.

Cell phones: Pay by the minute, plus so much per month.
Coverage area varies, and some of the digital services do not
have good coverage outside of cities. Not convenient for more
than two sites, so not good for a group spread out in three or
more places. Can make phone calls to anywhere on the globe, so
range often unlimited. Good for emergency help, but realize than
911 may connect you to an emergency center far away, which will
need to reroute your call to the correct agency.

Citizen band, 27 MHz: Good range car to car with good antennas,
5 to 10 miles. Interference from skip can be a problem,
especially during the higher part of the sunspot cycle
(1998-2001). Limited range as a walkie-talkie due to antenna
limitation. Can probably get emergency help on Channel 9, 19, or
another busy channel.

GMRS band, UHF: FCC license required, allows higher power (up to
20 W or so). In addition to walkie-talkies they allow external
antennas, mobiles, base stations and repeaters for increased
range. This is like FRS, only better, but radios are more
expensive. I have not used this service, but understand it to be
quite effective. Some people may be able to use VHF or UHF
business band radios. I have seen some radios that have both
FRS and GMRS channels in the same unit, claiming 22 channels.
To me it seems like the worst of both worlds, if you don't have a
licence and transmit on the GMRS channels you can be fined, and any
radiowith FRS won't allow external antennas, which are the
main advantage of GMRS over FRS.

There is a new service called MURS, only 5 channels, but like
GMRS only licence free. Sounds promising. 2 watts, allows
external antennas, VHF band. Should have significantly better
range than FRS radios, but no repeaters.

http://www.provide.net/~prsg/murs_faq.htm

49 MHz walkie-talkies: toys, very low power, very limited range,
sometimes not further than you can yell. Forget them for any
real use.

GENERAL NOTES FOR ALL SERVICES

Note that in large cities most of these services, with the
exception of cell phones and amateur radio (usually), are likely
to suffer interference from other users and powerful radios of
other services.

If you are really away from civilization, you will probably not
find emergency help with any of these services. You would need
a shortwave radio or a satellite phone.

Range will vary with terrain, nearby metal, the antenna, and
other variables too numerous to recount. To get any significant
range, you will probably need to be more or less line of sight,
especially on UHF. Hilltops are good sites for communications
Sometimes moving a foot will make a big difference.

Note that different countries have different regulations with
respect to radio. I believe that Mexico and Canada permit CB.
FRS radios are commonly used in Mexico for commercial purposes,
I am unsure about the legal status of FRS radios in Mexico.

For more info on US FCC regulations of FRS and other services,
try http://www.fcc.gov/wtb/prs/Welcome.html

The following web pages have more info about FRS:

http://members.tripod.com/~jwilkers/frspage.html

http://www.dougweb.com/gmrs.html

http://www.compusmart.ab.ca/resqdyn/...CommLeader.pdf
This is a lengthy and comprehensive article directed at outdoor users.

I have no financial connection to any radio service or business.
I have been an active ham radio operator for 20 years, and was
first licensed in 1962.

Richard Ferguson

KA0DXM

April 1, 2003


Nick Branch wrote:

Recommendations, folks for practical radios for the winter backcountry
environment? Technical data I have found isn't particularly helpful to
assess this.
Thanks,
Nick Branch

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Hey Richard,
Your license expired on 11-09-2003

http://www.buck.com/cgi-bin/do_hamcall

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 03:00:03 GMT, Richard Ferguson Wrote:
I have no financial connection to any radio service or business.
I have been an active ham radio operator for 20 years, and was
first licensed in 1962.

Richard Ferguson

KA0DXM

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 01:25:37 GMT, " wrote:

Hey Richard,
Your license expired on 11-09-2003

http://www.buck.com/cgi-bin/do_hamcall

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 03:00:03 GMT, Richard Ferguson Wrote:
I have no financial connection to any radio service or business.
I have been an active ham radio operator for 20 years, and was
first licensed in 1962.

I think the grace period is two years?

By the book, he cannot operate until renewing, but will not need to
retest unless the grace period expires.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

Thanks! It was on my list, I just kept putting it off, meant to check
the expiration date. I assume that I can renew on line, I will check
out the ARRL website.

Richard


" wrote:

Hey Richard,
Your license expired on 11-09-2003

http://www.buck.com/cgi-bin/do_hamcall

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 03:00:03 GMT, Richard Ferguson Wrote:
I have no financial connection to any radio service or business.
I have been an active ham radio operator for 20 years, and was
first licensed in 1962.

Richard Ferguson

KA0DXM

A couple of practical tips. Look for a radio that has a 'lock' feature so
cold hands don't accidentally change the channel or 'privacy' tone settings.
Another good feature is a standard On/Off switch... you know, the kind that
clicks when you turn it. This is because the ones with the 'soft' switches
are easy to inadvertantly turn off AND they drain the batteries even when
they are off. So if you leave the radios on your shelf for a couple of
weeks and then grab them for a backcountry trip, your batteries die an hour
into the trip.
Billy

"Nick Branch" wrote in message
...
Recommendations, folks for practical radios for the winter backcountry
environment? Technical data I have found isn't particularly helpful to
assess this.
Thanks,
Nick Branch




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

I went the route of getting my basic amatuer (ham) radio license, and bought
a hand held Yaesu VX-5a- 3 band (50/144/430 mhz). It's about the size of a
pack of cards. Cost about $300.00. I went this route due to timing (class
offered with local Civil Air Patrol) and desire to fully utilize ham radio
bands. With this 5 watt radio, I can hit a repeater on a mountain top and
talk to folks hundreds of miles away.

You can get single band for about $200.00- I suggest VHF or UHF- depending
on what the hams in your area are using.

While camping in the mountains, at worst it's cheap entertainment when you
get sick of your hiking buddy, and at best, it's a lifeline. Not that I'm
promoting getting yourself into deep s**t and calling for help at the drop
of a hat. But it's nice when the planets align against you. Mostly it sits
in my pack.

This radio also has all the NWS weather freqs, and believe it or not, a
barometer (not that I've ever used it).

Problem with this is that you aren't going to be talking to anyone else
unless they have a ham license and radio, too.

You could go pirate and just buy some surplus commercial VHF radios- Use
code names and keep moving (I hear you Mrs Esterhouse, this is Briar Rabbit)
eBay has a bunch of VHF handhelds for cheap.

Good luck!

Flip




William Sarokin wrote in message
...
A couple of practical tips. Look for a radio that has a 'lock' feature so
cold hands don't accidentally change the channel or 'privacy' tone
settings.
Another good feature is a standard On/Off switch... you know, the kind
that
clicks when you turn it. This is because the ones with the 'soft'
switches
are easy to inadvertantly turn off AND they drain the batteries even when
they are off. So if you leave the radios on your shelf for a couple of
weeks and then grab them for a backcountry trip, your batteries die an
hour
into the trip.
Billy

"Nick Branch" wrote in message
...
Recommendations, folks for practical radios for the winter backcountry
environment? Technical data I have found isn't particularly helpful to
assess this.
Thanks,
Nick Branch




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Vertex (Yaesu) VX-150

Why is it best:

Price: Presently $199.00 in Canada.

Transmits a full 5 Watts of power with the AA cell pack - the rest do not,
they only Tx at 2.5 watts on AA cells, you need to carry the NiCad pack to
get 5 watts normally. With the VX150 you can carry it light without cells
and rob them from your headlamp, pieps GPS and digital camera if you need to
use it.

Military spec.

Does not fall off through the band. We used it on packet at 174 mhz and
still got full power. The Kenwood does not do that.

Has SMA mount, more rugged than BN.

Not sure about US, but a dual/tri band is useless in Canada, all the
repeaters for Parks, CMH, most of the lodges, etc., are accessed via VHF,
they only trunk via UHF. Single band uses less battery power. The ACMG
guides all use VHF.

Does not use an electronic on/off switch, uses analog, far better.


"Flip Buttling" wrote in message
et...
I went the route of getting my basic amatuer (ham) radio license, and
bought
a hand held Yaesu VX-5a- 3 band (50/144/430 mhz). It's about the size of
a
pack of cards. Cost about $300.00. I went this route due to timing (class
offered with local Civil Air Patrol) and desire to fully utilize ham radio
bands. With this 5 watt radio, I can hit a repeater on a mountain top and
talk to folks hundreds of miles away.

You can get single band for about $200.00- I suggest VHF or UHF- depending
on what the hams in your area are using.

While camping in the mountains, at worst it's cheap entertainment when you
get sick of your hiking buddy, and at best, it's a lifeline. Not that I'm
promoting getting yourself into deep s**t and calling for help at the drop
of a hat. But it's nice when the planets align against you. Mostly it
sits
in my pack.

This radio also has all the NWS weather freqs, and believe it or not, a
barometer (not that I've ever used it).

Problem with this is that you aren't going to be talking to anyone else
unless they have a ham license and radio, too.

You could go pirate and just buy some surplus commercial VHF radios- Use
code names and keep moving (I hear you Mrs Esterhouse, this is Briar
Rabbit)
eBay has a bunch of VHF handhelds for cheap.

Good luck!

Flip




William Sarokin wrote in message
...
A couple of practical tips. Look for a radio that has a 'lock' feature
so
cold hands don't accidentally change the channel or 'privacy' tone
settings.
Another good feature is a standard On/Off switch... you know, the kind
that
clicks when you turn it. This is because the ones with the 'soft'
switches
are easy to inadvertantly turn off AND they drain the batteries even
when
they are off. So if you leave the radios on your shelf for a couple of
weeks and then grab them for a backcountry trip, your batteries die an
hour
into the trip.
Billy

"Nick Branch" wrote in message
...
Recommendations, folks for practical radios for the winter backcountry
environment? Technical data I have found isn't particularly helpful to
assess this.
Thanks,
Nick Branch




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 05:35:16 GMT, "Tom Sellers"
wrote:

Vertex (Yaesu) VX-150

Why is it best:

Price: Presently $199.00 in Canada.

Transmits a full 5 Watts of power with the AA cell pack - the rest do not,
they only Tx at 2.5 watts on AA cells, you need to carry the NiCad pack to
get 5 watts normally. With the VX150 you can carry it light without cells
and rob them from your headlamp, pieps GPS and digital camera if you need to
use it.

Military spec.

Does not fall off through the band. We used it on packet at 174 mhz and
still got full power. The Kenwood does not do that.

Has SMA mount, more rugged than BN.

Not sure about US, but a dual/tri band is useless in Canada, all the
repeaters for Parks, CMH, most of the lodges, etc., are accessed via VHF,
they only trunk via UHF. Single band uses less battery power. The ACMG
guides all use VHF.

It is a very nice unit for licensed hams for the reasons above, and
the 2M band is used in both the US and Canada, with many repeaters
available.

Various business and public service frequencies are on other parts of
the 2M band.

It has wide receive, but you CANNOT transmit legally on any of the
frequencies outside the amateur band. You are not licensed, and your
gear is not type accepted.

While limited exceptions exist in emergencies, you could still be in
trouble.

While modificiations may exist to so do, the reliability is
questionable and the legality is zero.
Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom