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Snowboard suggestions for heavy guys?



 
 
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  #21  
Old November 23rd 05, 04:54 AM
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"LeeD" wrote

If you have NO overhang whatsoever, unless you ride super stiff
boots, you cannot edge with power and speed, as your edging points on
your feet are your heels and balls of your feet, which are not at the
ends of your feet!


Can you stand on the balls of your feet? Some people have pretty
strong ankles you know, like from other sports - kiteboarding for example.

I don't see any problem holding my weight even in a very hard carve
on the toe side, and the binding highback takes care of that on the heel
side. Stiff boots help too.

Sure you can edge once a day, or several times, but you get tired
quickly and end up sliding around.


If anything, the big prime movers (thighs mostly) get tired from hard carving
first, esp. if you're not into doing stuff like olympic squats with some impressive
weights regularly.

Look at the width of Pro rider's boards..... All the Pipe guys ride
narrow for their feet size, like Powers and Terjes 246 sizing, for size
9 boots. They have overhang, so they can edge harder.
Also, narrower board edge QUICKER, something you need for riding
steeps.


Are you real? I have no opinion about pipe boards, but steeps usually are
ungroomed and have either powder or packed-out bumps. In either case
you want a wide board, and quick edging on steeps is achieved by moving
your CG even further forward and kicking the back of the board around while
airborne between your shortened half-carves.

But sure, if you prefer riding wide boards and no overhang, more
power to you! You can slipslide around everywhere, never catch an
edge, and have the best times in powder.


Burton Fish is not wide at the bindings. It's the best powder board. For
powder, it's the shovel width that counts, not the waist width. You don't
need a wide board for powder, although it surely works better than narrow
regular board.


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  #22  
Old November 23rd 05, 05:06 AM
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"LeeD" wrote

My two freestyle boards, both 27 and minus 3....that's my all around
stance, at 22" wide.
Size 11 boots, maybe 44/45, L bindings, 25.7 or 25.3 wide boards.
Overhang about 1" toe, maybe 3/4 rear binding loop. That's about 60
degree toe, closer to 75 degree heel binding strap, so it never drags
noticeably.


I would love to see how you'd get from lift 1 to the Pan Face at Baker with
a setup like this. It's a roller-coaster long fast traverse, part of it along about
35% grade, heel-side if you're regular.

Or, for that matter, how you'd do on the Pan Face itself when the powder
has been packed and bumped out a bit (2-3 days after). Seriously, I haven't
seen a single snowboarder (soft or hard boots) who didn't totally f-ing
sideslipped there all the way down, taking all the pow with them. Of course
lots of skiers do that too, but at least there are some who're good. Not like
that with boarders. And Baker is supposed to be the place to see some
really good riding.

Off the soapbox, need to go sacrifice some beer and make a prayer for either
snow or good wind for the long weekend.



  #23  
Old November 23rd 05, 05:33 AM
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Never rode Baker, or Bachelor....
But ScottsChute or Father's at Alpine no problem, if the snow has
some softness to it...not ice, I can't handle blue ice.
Chute75 or Wesfface Squaw many times.
RockGarden or Waterfall at Sierra, both basically OOB's unless the
snow is really high.
The 60' rockface drop off Chair1 at DonnerskiRanch, done over 10
times, but last was when I was younger, like in '96. I'm 56 now, no
more steeps.
What I cannot handle is being outside guy at the chair at Mammoth
that drops you off in a barn, you drop another 120' or so, then make a
90 degree right or smack the plexiwindow. Since all the boarders to
the right of you don't have their bindings strapped, and neither do
you, it's mass hysteria and confusion.
Or g/f that's dysleksic getting off lifts, grabbing me when I least
expect it, for no reason, then falling HARD onto my board. Brain
fade.....
That, I cannot handle....
Oh, slow strappers thats gotta sit down, brush snow off bindings,
look around, talk a bit, then bend over to consider strapping bindings
in.
I usually beat the Flow users, about 50/50 with the Clickers, and I
never sit down to strap my bindings.
Lucky for me, the Flow and Clicker riders can't strap/click where I
like to hike to.....

  #24  
Old November 23rd 05, 07:57 AM
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"LeeD" wrote

Never rode Baker, or Bachelor....
But ScottsChute or Father's at Alpine no problem, if the snow has
some softness to it...not ice, I can't handle blue ice.


Ahh, sweet memories.. Ride Scotts until you drop, then in for some
hot wine in the hut with the ladies, then ride some more.. It's actually
pretty similar to Pan Face except for the rocks (and it's about 2x longer),
but chair 1 at Baker serves plenty of that stuff just a bit to the right.
I was there once when it was icy, AFAIR it was when I just got my
board stolen, so a rental Burton Custom was my ride. Doable but
some heel drag from their Mission bindings and of course that's not
the board to have for ice - not enough edge hold.

What I cannot handle is being outside guy at the chair at Mammoth
that drops you off in a barn, you drop another 120' or so, then make a
90 degree right or smack the plexiwindow. Since all the boarders to
the right of you don't have their bindings strapped, and neither do
you, it's mass hysteria and confusion.


AFAIR that chair is high-speed and it slows down quite a bit before
you get off. So what you do is hold on to it a lot longer than you normally
do, wait until the rest of the people get off and start falling over each
other, then take off and maneuver between them. You'd be surprised
how much of a gap in time you can make if you don't get off the chair
till the very last possible moment, and then hold on to it a bit more with
your hands while sliding down the slope very slowly. Your initial speed
will be lower too.

Oh, slow strappers thats gotta sit down, brush snow off bindings,
look around, talk a bit, then bend over to consider strapping bindings
in.


Yeah, that's just not right. They've been sitting on a lift for some time
just before getting off. I usually have a plan by then and anxious to go
try to ride it..

Lucky for me, the Flow and Clicker riders can't strap/click where I
like to hike to.....


My strapping in is a blessing for my skier friends. I'm the last to
drop in, so I get to collect their yard sales when they screw up their
landings.



  #25  
Old November 23rd 05, 12:44 PM
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Why would you want overhang….

Well, I am no pro, so besides listening to the guys who I respect allot
giving me advice on such matters, I will venture some good guesses.

In reality you do not want any overhang, that would be your foot
overhanging the board OR your board overhanging your foot. It’s all a
matter of leverage and how the rider will be transferring work to the
edge of the board. Too wide of a board would be mechanical advantage
against the rider.

So after considering it for awhile, I figure the optimum board width
would seem to be the following:
The amount of width required accommodating your bare foot in your
riding stance.
Because I like to occasionally ride park and ride out switch, I find
angles +15 front –5 rear comfortable. On my Palmer Crown and Zuma Surf
H.C. Carbon, my rear bare foot has little or no overhang.

Now with boots on (Salomon Malamutes), I now have overhang, but I can
efficiently transfer loads to the board edges. The overhang is not (in
my opinion) excessive, and due to the bindings, up and out of the way.

Anyhow, that’s my technical stab at the problem. Out here, East of the
Mississippi, I ride mostly groomed hardpack. I will occasionally follow
my son into the trees. On the rare occasion I find myself in deep powder
(10” or more), I ride a 167 Rossignol Nomad Wide to float me to the top.

Regards,

Chris

Neil Gendzwill wrote:
Christopher Cox wrote:

I am curious, what is your setup and in what conditions do you ride?



I have two, a 21.5 cm Coiler AM that I ride at 45/40 and a 24.5 cm
waisted Rad-Air Tanker at 35/30, hard boots. No overhang.

Did I offended you in someway?



Uhm, no, what in my post caused you to think that? I'm just giving my
opinion. In particular, when I said "I don't understand why anyone
would want any overhang", I'm genuinely curious why. Because my
impression is that overhang is what happens when people buy a
standard-waisted board, stand on it with standard freestyle angles in
whatever size boots they happen to have, and live with it. If there's a
solid technical reason to live with toe or heel drag other than tha's
the way it worked out given the equipment you have and the stance you
want, I'm curious to hear it.

Neil

  #26  
Old November 23rd 05, 03:19 PM
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LeeD wrote:

When I talk carving, I mean with my RaichleHardBoots and Hot Spot or
Logical, full on slalom and GS raceboards with plate bindings.


Whoah, that's some old stuff. I used to lust after a Logical about 10
years ago. Nobody races on asymmetrics anymore. You ought to check
into some of the modern carving gear from Donek, Prior, Coiler, F2 or Volkl.

Neil

  #27  
Old November 23rd 05, 03:26 PM
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LeeD wrote:
You talk too much theory, don't look around at people snowboarding!


That's my problem, I do look around at them and most of them can't turn.

The various pros you mention, I'd have to look at their actual setup.
But I'd be surprised if they have much overhang - boot-out can't be much
fun if it takes you off your line in an icy pipe.

You can carve a couple nice turns with any width board, but if you
need holding power all day, go as narrow as your feetsize and stance
will allow.


Absolutely, we're just disagreeing on what stance will allow. There was
an interesting discussion on the AASI forum the other day where some
instructors said that people often use more inclination than required.
If they correctly pressured the edge, they should be able to get by with
less inclination. But I still think if you're getting foot contact at
45 degrees, you're going to boot out when carving hard and you'll
definitely get some drag in soft conditions.

Neil
  #28  
Old November 23rd 05, 05:22 PM
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Problem at Mammoth is I'm goof, and I do frontside getoffs a lot
better, but usually not when 3 people yard sale in front of me....
Neil, I don't race, so don't need the latest gear. Sure, my Hot's
don't carve as quickly or at as much speed as FactPrimes, but they're
paid for, will last forever, and float in pow if needed, as well as
being wide enough for me to stand up even when I'm not moving.
Raceboard usually looking for groomies first thing in the morning, so
if corduroy isn't happening, I can jump into the trees still. I had
trouble riding trees with my old 164 FPrime.
I actually started snowboarding with a Plus, so assym and pow doesn't
bother me.

  #29  
Old November 23rd 05, 05:37 PM
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LeeD wrote:
Neil, I don't race, so don't need the latest gear. Sure, my Hot's
don't carve as quickly or at as much speed as FactPrimes, but they're
paid for, will last forever, and float in pow if needed, as well as
being wide enough for me to stand up even when I'm not moving.


Burton doesn't market alpine anymore. The last alpine boards Burton made
were called R17 Addicted and available only in Japan, before that they
were Speeds, it's been 6 years since they were called FP I think. But I
don't think there was a ton of development going on, mostly top sheet
changes. You might find this interesting reading:
http://www.bomberonline.com//articles/asymetric.cfm

I don't understand the comment about them being wide enough to stand up
when you're not moving? Anyways, if you want an alpine board with a
wider waist, there's lots of choice. Outfits like Prior, Donek and
Coiler have stock shapes in waists up to 23 cm, lots of room for that
(relatively) shallow stance. I ride a 21.5 waist with around 45 degree
angles, which were common with the asyms. I think your old Hots are
narrower than that. I don't have any problem with pow float, my board
is designed as an all-rounder - I take it everywhere, bumps, trees, pow,
you name it.

There's a few Euros still riding Asyms these days, definitely in the
minority.

Neil
  #30  
Old November 23rd 05, 06:22 PM
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Me, old fart, now 56. Ten years ago, riding mostly raceboards,
stopping to rest means sitting down tweaking my back knee.
Freestyle stance is much friendlier, and my knees don't hurt sitting,
and at 4cm wider widths, I can stay standing even in softer snow.
I last worked at a Burton shop in 99, so that was my last FPrime.
Laurent would comp me a board every year, just 'cause I personally sold
over 170 new model Burton boards a year from '95 thru '99, and I only
worked about 20 hours a week. The outfit I worked for, 3 shops in 3
different cities, only ordered a total of 500 Burton boards a year.
Spot 22, Logical 21, Plus 23.5.
My current AvalancheIceRocket164 at 24.

 




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