dress for -26 deg C

I'm interested in knowing how you folks dress at this temperature. x-c
skiing. I haven't found the right formula yet after all these years of
skiing.

For me, I found the important addition a inner liner inside mitts and
outerboot. Extra clothing on my body actually causes overheating.

I also found that my clothing tend to retain more moisture at this low
temperature. It is fine while I am moving but becomes very cold when I
stop, like when I am driving home.

.... Mike

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:09:59 -0500, "Mike Hui"
wrote:

I'm interested in knowing how you folks dress at this temperature. x-c
skiing. I haven't found the right formula yet after all these years of
skiing.

Racing or training?

For training on my feet are normal wool socks, boots and boot covers.
Legs are windbriefs, two pairs of thin wicking underwear and then
windfront bib training pants. Up top a wicking longsleeve, covered by
a stretchfleece undervest and then a stretchfleece longsleeve top over
that. With a well-ventilated windbreaker on top.

A fleece neck gaitor, thin wicking balaclava and normal wool hat.
Lobstergloves (Yoko windstopper are good). Glasses. Lots of
dermatone.

With this set-up some condensation freezes inside my windbreaker, so
when I take it off it looks like snow falling inside. This is good
for me for a couple hours.

In racing (one to thre hour event) I use racing tights on the bottom
-- good quality ones that are thicker than normal lycra -- like CW-X
tights, or cycling tights of "roubaix material", with Craft windfront
longunderwear under that, and then a very thin pair of wicking
underwear under that. Windbriefs with duct tape on the front. On the
feet no boot covers.

Up top it's a couple wicking tops, a stretchfleece undervest, a piece
of tyvek over the chesk and then a strech top. Then the same stuff on
my head as in training. I haven't used the lobster gloves the times
Iv'e raced in temps like that - just Yoko Windstopper glove. But that
might have been a mistake as I almost had a hand crisis a couple years
ago. For an hour gloves would've been fine but not for two or three.

I have fairly warm boots -- Salamon Actives.

I also found that my clothing tend to retain more moisture at this low
temperature. It is fine while I am moving but becomes very cold when I
stop, like when I am driving home.

You've got to change when you stop skiing. Get into dry clothes! At
a minimum a dry top against your skinand a dry hat. If you're driving
more than 15 minutes, change everything.

JFT



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On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:09:59 -0500, "Mike Hui" wrote:

I'm interested in knowing how you folks dress at this temperature. x-c
skiing. I haven't found the right formula yet after all these years of
skiing.

For me, I found the important addition a inner liner inside mitts and
outerboot. Extra clothing on my body actually causes overheating.

I also found that my clothing tend to retain more moisture at this low
temperature. It is fine while I am moving but becomes very cold when I
stop, like when I am driving home.

... Mike


I bring a pair of sweats that I change into for the drive home.

Ben

Mike Hui wrote:
I'm interested in knowing how you folks dress at this temperature. x-c
skiing. I haven't found the right formula yet after all these years of
skiing.

For me, I found the important addition a inner liner inside mitts and
outerboot. Extra clothing on my body actually causes overheating.

I also found that my clothing tend to retain more moisture at this low
temperature. It is fine while I am moving but becomes very cold when I
stop, like when I am driving home.

... Mike


Like the other poster said; when you get done and back in the car, you
need to change into something dry. I find I can just change my top
(always soaked) into a t shirt and sweatshirt and be good for a
comfortable drive. My pants (Sporthill XC pants) are always dry (maybe
this is the pants (they are great!) or maybe I don't perspire as much on
my legs).
I find my hands and feet perspire a great deal , so I have to wear
wicking socks and gloves always. This is mostly smartwool, coolmax, or
sometimes silk gloves, then an insulating layer on top of that (mittens
or I get cold fingers for sure), and in really cold weather, another
shell glove over those.
Boots I have not been entirely succesful in keeping my feet warm. Just a
few days ago at a bit warmer than-26C mentioned (-15 to -10 C) my toes
got somewhat numb even though I had on the wicking liner socks, the
expedition weight bulky socks, my heavy 3 pin leather (Karhu) boots, and
extra foam boot gloves on the outside. Seems like with all that I
should have been ok. Maybe I have the boots on too tight and am
squishing one othe important veins or arteries (I think there is one on
the top of the foot).
The main trunk of the body doen't give me much trouble, I mostly have to
vent the heat. Just one or 2 layers of thin wicking underwear and a
ventilated shell. I used to also wear a fleece, which was ok until I got
working a lot, then it was riduculous in being too warm. My hat always
becomes sweat soaked, but If I try just a earband, the top of my head
freezes.

"Mike Hui" wrote in message
...
I'm interested in knowing how you folks dress at this temperature. x-c
skiing. I haven't found the right formula yet after all these years of
skiing.

For me, I found the important addition a inner liner inside mitts and
outerboot. Extra clothing on my body actually causes overheating.

The old adage is, if you're not chilly when you're putting your skis on,
you'll be to warm when you're skiing. When touring or training, there's no
substitute for being able to peel off a layer if you're too warm or adding a
layer if you're to cold. A bumbag / fanny pack will hold a shell or small
vest if need-be.

I also found that my clothing tend to retain more moisture at this low
temperature. It is fine while I am moving but becomes very cold when I
stop, like when I am driving home.

I'll get on board with the other guys who have advised that you need to
change, at least the top, after you're done. This is a routine among
everyone I know. I change my shirt in the parking lot at -20F if need-be.
There's a half minute of discomfort, then immediate warmth. I always bring
a dry stocking cap as well. If you change your shirt and put on a dry
stocking cap, you'll feel great. I also change my socks if I can, but
that's not as crucial.

One definitely builds up more moisture inside when it's really cold. I get
a lot of frost on the inside of my wind shell (a good quality Dahlie shell
that works as well as anything I'ev ever used). The colder it gets, the
more moisture doesn't evaporate - it gets to the shell layer (inside and/or
outside of the shell) and freezes. That's just the way it is, but it also
makes it doubly important to change after a work out if it's cold.

Cam

Hi Mike,

In that kind of temp, I find the issues I need to deal with a

1- Temperature management to minimize sweat-wet clothes
2- When clothes do eventually get wet, putting another layer on top to
provide additional insulation, or even changing them.
3- If going for a long ski (30km +), keeping one's energy source stoked
with food and drink. I eat and drink every 40 minutes or so.

I find the key for me is to carry a backpack (~35 liters). I could use a
"fannypack", but I find these over-constrained in terms of volume and not
comfortable. The backpack allows me to comfortably take extra clothing: a
breathable wind layer that I can throw on, as well as dry change of
mitts/gloves, balaclava, hat, underwear, and socks. It also allows me to
take food and drink

All my tops have neck zippers so that I can do some temp control. You can't
layer and de-layer at will, but you can open/close up a side zipper,
open/close a neck zipper a bit more, put a hood on/off, etc. My wind layers
are light and breathable (the material is called SuperMicroft) and have
armpit and side zippers for the same reason. My wind top has a hood that I
put on and off while moving depending on whether I'm going downhill,
crossing an open field, etc. My wind pants have zippers so that I can put
them on without taking my ski boots off, as well as doing temp control while
moving.

When I start off, I dress aiming to be cold on my trunk and a bit on my head
for about the first 10 minutes or so. However, I always aim to be reasonably
warm on my hands (I use thin gloves, inside a pile mitt, inside a Gortex
outer mitt) and feet (I use reasonably warm ski boots, and always boot
covers for cold temps). If I get it wrong and I'm too cold then I can always
throw an extra layer on from my backpack. I start off without my wind layer,
but I do use a balaclava, with ear muffs on, to protect my face and ears --
which have lots of Dermatone or Vaseline on. If I'm out for a 3+ hour ski,
eventually things get wet enough so I throw on an extra wicking layer, or
throw my wind layer on, if I have not already. I often change my iced up
balaclava and gloves, and may throw on an extra hat, or change one. On the a
really cold CSM I may do this twice a day over the 80km/9 hour ski.

If I'm skiing somewhere like the Gatineau Park with huts, I could easily go
in a hut and change a top wet layer: I tend to find this is not necessary
and I hate to get all warmed up, melt, and then cool down. However, if my
feet start getting cold because of wet socks (which very rarely happens with
boot covers), I head straight to somewhere that is a bit wind sheltered and
change my wet socks. I also find putting Dermatone on my hands and feet, as
well as my face, tends to reduce sweating quite a bit.

At -26'C , I'm not out set personal time records. I'm out to be skiing. So,
I don't worry about the required extra weight, or time taken to adjust
clothing, or eating, I go for comfort and safety: misery is often optional
;-)

Parham.

Thanks everyone for responding to my query about ski clothing at -26 deg C.

There are two key messages I have learned:
1. There are no magic solutions. At this low temperature, after a couple of
hours' of vigorous skiing, you cannot keep dry.
2. Everyone suggests changing to dry clothing after skiing.

I do change out of wet clothing most of the time after skiing. I didn't do
it because it was bloody cold at -26! I guess I just have to next time.

By the way, I dressed right to-day. Skiing at -20 deg was enjoyable and
comfortable.

.... Mike

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:27:27 -0500, "Mike Hui" wrote:

Thanks everyone for responding to my query about ski clothing at -26 deg C.

There are two key messages I have learned:
1. There are no magic solutions. At this low temperature, after a couple of
hours' of vigorous skiing, you cannot keep dry.
2. Everyone suggests changing to dry clothing after skiing.

I do change out of wet clothing most of the time after skiing. I didn't do
it because it was bloody cold at -26! I guess I just have to next time.

By the way, I dressed right to-day. Skiing at -20 deg was enjoyable and
comfortable.

... Mike


Warm up the car a few minutes to get the heat going. Even if you don't warm it
up, just being in the car will block the wind. Have the fresh clothes "in
position" so as soon as the wet one comes off you can pop the dry one on.
Also, when you're changing while sitting (as in a car) you tend to hold the same
body position so you stay in the "envelope" of air your body has started
warming.

Ben

"Mike Hui" wrote in message
...
I'm interested in knowing how you folks dress at this temperature. x-c
skiing. I haven't found the right formula yet after all these years of
skiing.

For me, I found the important addition a inner liner inside mitts and
outerboot. Extra clothing on my body actually causes overheating.

I also found that my clothing tend to retain more moisture at this low
temperature. It is fine while I am moving but becomes very cold when I
stop, like when I am driving home.

... Mike

I skied yesterday at -22°C yesterday, with basically the same clothes I wear
at -5°C. I have found, from experience, that adding extra layers only make
me sweat; when I do sweat, I freeze. The only difference in clothing is
addind wind-breaking pants (wind-breaking in the front, well vented in the
back) for the downhills and thin polyproplene liners inside my gloves, which
I can remove if my hands get too warm and start sweating.

BarryT

Changing at -26C isn't all that bad as long as you're fairly quick. It's
like getting out of a sauna and into a cold pool. Your body is generating
enough heat that when the cold air hits , your pores snap shut and you stay
warm long enough to get into your dry stuff. (That's the theory, anyway.)
If the wind is blowing (as it always is at the Start/Finish of the Keski)
you just need to be quicker. I also always change before putting my skis
away - you need to be as warm as possible when the air hits your bare skin.

Tim



on 24/1/05 00:27, Mike Hui wrote:

Thanks everyone for responding to my query about ski clothing at -26 deg C.

There are two key messages I have learned:
1. There are no magic solutions. At this low temperature, after a couple of
hours' of vigorous skiing, you cannot keep dry.
2. Everyone suggests changing to dry clothing after skiing.

I do change out of wet clothing most of the time after skiing. I didn't do
it because it was bloody cold at -26! I guess I just have to next time.

By the way, I dressed right to-day. Skiing at -20 deg was enjoyable and
comfortable.

.... Mike