If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Helmets
Prompted by a previous post, what do people think about skiing helmets?
On my last couple of trips to N America helmet use by adults seems to be approaching 30-50% (very rough guess). When I was in France a couple of weeks ago it was very close to zero. Personally, I'm a convert, but a trip to Jackson Hole is very pursuasive (very steep, lots of tight trees, scary cliffs etc). I guess it still very much a matter of debate and I am not in favour of making them mandatory but I'd be interested to hear what anyone else thinks. On the plus side: They probably reduce the chance of serious head injury in an accident. (although I know of no proof) On the down side: Can be uncomfortable (mine current one isn't, the first one I bought was a real pain, literally). May encourage a wearer to take more risks (I doubt this, but I've heard it said). Too warm in spring/summer. Thoughts? Steve |
Ads |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Helmets
"Steve Haigh" wrote in message ... | Prompted by a previous post, what do people think about skiing helmets? For kids I think wearing helmets should be pushed more than it is.... The ESF calls it 'highly advisable' but not compulsory - maybe they don't want to lose business.. Kids - mainly those on holiday - often go faster than their ability allows, change direction at random, generally seem to be in a world of their own on the pistes. When it's congested this can be really hazardous. I've seen plenty of children taken out from behind by large teenagers and the occasional adult, who don't allow enough overtaking space. A good thing about getting kids used to wearing a helmet right from the start is that they're less bothered about the image thing as they get older. As for those doing a bit of competition... well there's no choice if you're a club member. Still it's only partially reassuring when you're watching 11 year olds going down the high speed 'kilomètre lancé' run at Les Arcs at over 90 mph..... ,falling over is not recommended. And the risks are just as high on days like today when the club spent the morning skiing off piste through the forest. Pete http://www.skiclublesarcs.com |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Helmets
Steve Haigh wrote:
Prompted by a previous post, what do people think about skiing helmets? On my last couple of trips to N America helmet use by adults seems to be approaching 30-50% (very rough guess). When I was in France a couple of weeks ago it was very close to zero. Over new year, at les 2 Alpes I wore mine every day, and there seemed to be a increasing number of people with helmets, but the reason I wore mine is that it was cold and windy and a helmet is far more effective than a hat! on the other hand I would not dream of racing or training through poles without mine it just feels unsafe now. Personally, I'm a convert, but a trip to Jackson Hole is very pursuasive (very steep, lots of tight trees, scary cliffs etc). I guess it still very much a matter of debate and I am not in favour of making them mandatory but I'd be interested to hear what anyone else thinks. they are mandatory for dry slope racing and on many slopes for training through poles or using jumps. this is mainly brought on by the insurance companies. On the plus side: They probably reduce the chance of serious head injury in an accident. (although I know of no proof) On the down side: Can be uncomfortable (mine current one isn't, the first one I bought was a real pain, literally). May encourage a wearer to take more risks (I doubt this, but I've heard it said). this was a claim made against the compulsory wearing of motorbike helmets and (Car) seat belts, AFAIK the oposite has proven to be the case ie the accident rate (in the UK) has decreased not increased. Too warm in spring/summer. Too true, Adults tend to put their helmet on at the last possible time and remove it as soon as they stop in Summer races, though children don't seem to be so affected. One reason I know some people won't wear helmets (or complain continuosely about them if they have to wear them) is restriction of vision. personally I don't notice this and One racer I know who would not wear a helmet for training for this reason now does. ( The rather large dentist's bill for replacing the crowns on both his front teeth may have had something to do with this though.) -- Chris *:-) Downhill Good, Uphill BAD! www.suffolkvikings.org.uk |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Helmets
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:07:53 +0000, Steve Haigh
wrote: Prompted by a previous post, what do people think about skiing helmets? Personally, I'm a convert, but a trip to Jackson Hole is very pursuasive (very steep, lots of tight trees, scary cliffs etc). I guess it still very much a matter of debate and I am not in favour of making them mandatory but I'd be interested to hear what anyone else thinks. Never worn one, never likely to. I just don't feel I need it. On the plus side: They probably reduce the chance of serious head injury in an accident. (although I know of no proof) I prefer to use the accident-avoidance tactic. Anything that might result in head injury is going to be serious in other ways, so I want to be as certain as I can be that it doesn't happen. On the down side: Hearing impairment. I don't even like to ski with a hood on if I can avoid it, as I believe that hearing is of great value in maintaining one's personal safety. I wouldn't want this compromised by wearing a helmet. May encourage a wearer to take more risks (I doubt this, but I've heard it said). As I understand it, it's something over which the wearer has little control. If he feels less likely to be hurt, he will be inclined to go faster, steeper or whatever. It would take a conscious effort to avoid this risk-compensation, which is inherent to human nature. -- Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom) Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Helmets
Steve Haigh wrote:
Prompted by a previous post, what do people think about skiing helmets? On my last couple of trips to N America helmet use by adults seems to be approaching 30-50% (very rough guess). When I was in France a couple of weeks ago it was very close to zero. I saw a few round Flaine, but numerically it's probably near 0% :-) I've a helmet I use for snow boarding where they're a little more common. I use it on the board since I'd taken a couple of back edge falls and banged my head painfully, on one occasion leaving me feel groggy for a couple of days. I'm leaning to wearing for skiing as well, on busy pistes near-collisions with high-speed out of control snow-users seem to be getting more and more common. On the plus side: They probably reduce the chance of serious head injury in an accident. (although I know of no proof) On the down side: Can be uncomfortable (mine current one isn't, the first one I bought was a real pain, literally). May encourage a wearer to take more risks (I doubt this, but I've heard it said). Too warm in spring/summer. It's not a bad 'hat' in cold weather :-) |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Helmets
Thoughts?
Steve Hmmm... I suppose it's OK to do without until you crash into a tree whilst avoiding someone or get hit by a nutter skiier/boarder... then you'd wish you were wearing one, I suppose. I'm all for it for kids, who, in my opinion, are a lot more vulnerable to injury at their height/lack of bodily coordination to 'fall right' (believe me, over the years I have become particulary skilled in falling over on skis and snowboards as I spend approximately 50% of my holiday doing it...) Joking aside, I think that you can be 'good at falling over' and whilst I accept that this won't protect you if you do it in trees or if some idiot smashes into you, I think that 99% of people on the slopes are aware enough to keep their wits about them and look out for potential hazards. If you go skiing in steep/rocky/tree-ridden places then you are asking for trouble if you DON'T wear a helmet, in my book. I've had numerous spectacular wipe-outs, been hit by people on the slopes, even run into the back (fortunately slowly!) of panicking beginners who have suddenly changed direction and never once have I come even close to hurting my head. Coccyx, shins, knees, thumbs (ouch!), wrists and bum, yes... but never my head... but there's always a first time, I suppose. Mind you, I think that any accident sufficiently dangerous enough to threaten my head is likely to be fairly threatening to other fairly major parts of my body and I can't protect everything, or I'd be wrapped in bubble-wrap. OK, I accept that a major injury to my head is likely to cause more lasting damage than damage to my leg, say, but what if I hurt my back and became paralysed? Should I therefore get a neoprene suit made up with a spinal protector in case I fall over and hurt my back? I think that it should be left up to the parents to decide if their children should wear helmets and I don't believe that any resort should have the right to impose helmets on anyone that doesn't want to wear them. Remember, they had to have a major re-vamp on protective clothing in American Football when players started wearing the new style solid helmets due to the damage the new helmets were causing to unprotected limbs! Think about that the next time that gang of 7-year old French kids is approaching you at 50 mph with rock-hard helmets on their bonces! |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Helmets
In article , Ace
wrote: On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:07:53 +0000, Steve Haigh wrote: [snip] May encourage a wearer to take more risks (I doubt this, but I've heard it said). As I understand it, it's something over which the wearer has little control. If he feels less likely to be hurt, he will be inclined to go faster, steeper or whatever. It would take a conscious effort to avoid this risk-compensation, which is inherent to human nature. Yes it is inherent in human nature. People make subjective assessments of the risks which may not agree with an objective assessment. For example as you improve the personal safety systems in a car, such as seatbelts and airbags, then you often find that people are prepared to risk more and bigger accidents. Similarly if you make them feel more at risk by convincing them that an activity seems more dangerous than it really is they will behave more cautiously. The same action can have differing effects on different people. So for example if you were to compel a group of people to wear a helmet, you might find some will now take more risks because they feel protected by the helmet, whereas others will perceive that the need for a helmet is because there must be a greater risk of injury than they originally thought and hence they would be dissuaded from taking risks. Introduction of compulsory helmet usage for cycling has reduced the numbers who cycle in some countries. Mike URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/ -- o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark \__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing, " || _`\,_ |__\ \ | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and ` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user" |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Helmets
Hmm -
There were noticebly more in Lech this year (based on observation) than in previous years. The various guides I skied with were all of the opinion that they were only worn by americans. They (the guides) and I were unanimous in concluding that we would wear them if race training but that if we thought we needed them otherwise, we shouldn't be skiing.... However this was based on the presumption that we could assess our own skiing abilities and match our skiing to that. Kids on the other hand often can't (or don't perceive the risk that may result if they don't) and therefore it may well be sensible for them to do so. However I wouldn't stop somebody wearing one if they wanted to. I am also insured up to the hilt in respect of skiing/personal health, so arguably wouldn't be a burden on the NHS if it all went wrong... "Steve Haigh" wrote in message ... Prompted by a previous post, what do people think about skiing helmets? On my last couple of trips to N America helmet use by adults seems to be approaching 30-50% (very rough guess). When I was in France a couple of weeks ago it was very close to zero. Personally, I'm a convert, but a trip to Jackson Hole is very pursuasive (very steep, lots of tight trees, scary cliffs etc). I guess it still very much a matter of debate and I am not in favour of making them mandatory but I'd be interested to hear what anyone else thinks. On the plus side: They probably reduce the chance of serious head injury in an accident. (although I know of no proof) On the down side: Can be uncomfortable (mine current one isn't, the first one I bought was a real pain, literally). May encourage a wearer to take more risks (I doubt this, but I've heard it said). Too warm in spring/summer. Thoughts? Steve |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Helmets
"Carl Edwards" wrote in message ...
Thoughts? Steve Compare skiing to cycling. While the ground is usually harder when cycling (unless you ski the ice with rocky Patches in Scotland) I have not fallen off a bike since I was a kid but I fall skiing often. Many years ago (when only downhill racers wore helmets and GS racers wore bobble hats) I fell forwards and landed on my head (twice after I had done a somersault). While there was no permanent damage I was rather groggy for a couple of hours. As others have said the feeling of invincibility is often touted but does not appear to be the case for other safety features. The first priority should be to avoid a crash but the nature of skiing is that occasionally they happen and the sensible thing is to limit the damage when it does. Children are less able to risk assess than adults and may not be able to judge their level of control, I therefore think that they should wear helmets. In the sue culture that is developing I don't blame ski schools for insisting on it as parents are quite likely to blame the school if little Johnny crashes into a tree and bangs his head. For adults it should be a personnal choice. I tend to go to the Alps in January when the prices are lowest and also ski Scotland when I get a chance, the heat of a helmet is not an issue then. I have not noticed a hearing impairment wearing my helmet but if you are worried about this helmets are available without (or with removeable) ear pieces. The majority of skiing injuries affect limbs but these usually repair themselves after a few weeks. A head injury can be permanent and much more difficult to cope with. Admittedly the same can be true of back injuries and I have seen skiing back protectors for sale but it is a case of the level of risk you are willing to take and how high that risk is (depends on snow conditions, visability, how crowded the pisted are, number of rocks and trees around , how aggressive you ski etc) In most things America is a few year ahead of Europe. In Tignes last week I reckon that about 8-10% of adults were wearing helmets in a few years time I would expect it to be up to the 30-50% someone mentioned was now the case in the US. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Helmets
"Carl_M" wrote in message om... | "Carl Edwards" wrote in message ... ..../... | As others have said the feeling of invincibility is often touted but | does not appear to be the case for other safety features. The first | priority should be to avoid a crash but the nature of skiing is that | occasionally they happen and the sensible thing is to limit the damage | when it does. Of course. | Children are less able to risk assess than adults and may not be able | to judge their level of control, I therefore think that they should | wear helmets. Seconded. It's the only thing that makes sense. Anyone arguing the contrary needs their head examining | In the sue culture that is developing I don't blame ski | schools for insisting on it as parents are quite likely to blame the | school if little Johnny crashes into a tree and bangs his head. Most don't at the moment, but it can't be far off if only for the reason you've stated. I've seen a study estimating that between 5 and 10% of skiing accidents result in head injuries of varying severity. Another one made it clear that you could cut this figure in half by wearing a well-fitting helmet.. (http://www.partyprogram.com/resources/files/28.pdf). Winter sports such as skiing and ice-skating account for close to 20,000 brain trauma injuries annually! And we're not talking about bumps on the head here. (Thurman DJ, Branche CM, Sniezek JE. The Epidemiology of Sports-Related Brain Injuries in the United States: Recent Developments. Journal of Head Trauma Rehabilitation 1998.) ..../... | The majority of skiing injuries affect limbs but these usually repair | themselves after a few weeks. A head injury can be permanent and much | more difficult to cope with. When you've watched someone spend a few months in a coma, to emerge gradually, but seriously disabled for good, believe me you tend to be less blasé about alleged erosion of civil liberties and personal freedoms. Anyone coming out with silly soapbox hyperbole about nanny states in the physio ward of the RHND** would probably be lynched on the spot by any parents/family present. (RHND** : Royal Hospital for Neurodisability) | Admittedly the same can be true of back | injuries and I have seen skiing back protectors for sale but it is a | case of the level of risk you are willing to take and how high that | risk is (depends on snow conditions, visability, how crowded the | pisted are, number of rocks and trees around , how aggressive you ski | etc) Not sure what the latest state of play is, but I was under the impression that the ISF had made them compulsory for racing from the start of this season, in all categories... although perhaps the date has been put off as I've seen few people wearing them as yet. | In most things America is a few year ahead of Europe. In Tignes last | week I reckon that about 8-10% of adults were wearing helmets in a few | years time I would expect it to be up to the 30-50% someone mentioned | was now the case in the US. No half measures on the other side of the Pond. They're either very right - or very wrong... ;o) Pete www.skiclublesarcs.com |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Helmets - any available with soft padding? | Henry | Snowboarding | 8 | February 26th 04 12:54 PM |
Where to buy ski helmets | Carl_M | European Ski Resorts | 1 | January 5th 04 09:55 AM |
Helmets - thermal protection | Ian Turek | Snowboarding | 4 | November 13th 03 06:35 PM |