Snowboarding or skiing?

On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 14:03:34 GMT, "David Brown \)"
allegedly wrote:

Your son on the other hand should definately go for boarding, he'll
pick it up quicker, bounce back from crashes much quicker and perhaps
most importantly of all.....the chicks dig it )

Kids will pick it up quicker whether on a board or skis. Put them on both
so that they can make their own decision as to which they prefer later in
life.

There are certainly times where I wish I was on skis (and a much better
skier). :-)

- Dave.

--
The only powder to get high on, falls from the sky.
http://www.vpas.org/ - Snowboarding the worlds pow pow -
Securing your e-mail

The Snowboard FAQ lives here - http://rssFAQ.org/

"Joe Ramirez" wrote in message ...

Well, Joe, congratulations on taking up snowsports. Lots of good
advice in this thread, I didn't really see anything that was wrong.
From my perspecive being both a skier (34 years + instructor for a
few) and boarder (17 years), your can't go wrong with either.

So, here are a few questions. Thanks very much in advance for any answers or
suggestions you may have.
1. Am I correct about the learning curves of boarding vs. skiing? If not,
what's the reality?

I think it's easier to progress faster on a snowboard. My reasoning
for this is that you pretty much have to learn the correct way to
snowboard from day one. A first timer has to make turns the same
basic way as a seasoned expert. With skis, you go through a
progression from snowplow, wedge turns to parallel turns. This takes
more time because you have to master each step.

2. If you both ski and ride, which do you prefer, and why? If you ride but
don't ski, do you have any sense that you're missing out on an important
part of the winter mountain experience?

Personally, I prefer skiing. Mainly because I am a better skier and I
find it easier to get around the mountain on skis. If you ask me,
this is the main disadvantage of a snowboard. When it comes to deep
snow on relatively flat trails, long flat runouts or slightly up hill
areas, the skiers definately have the advantage. I also do a lot of
back country skiing where I hike to the fresh pow. On level to
slightly uphill areas, I can put on my skis and walk on top of the
snow while my snowboarding friends are post holeing trying to keep up.

On skiings down side, it takes much longer to become a proficiant
powder skier. Most skiers never master it. Shaped fat skis do help
but it's something that's much easier to learn and enjoy on a
snowboard and this is what snowsports are all about. The only problem
is when you get to the bottom and it's a flat runout with deep snow.
Personally, I've got great powder technique so I find it hard to give
up a powder day to improve my snowboard technique.

3. I understand that virtually all ski resorts now welcome snowboarders as
well. But are there any "skiers only" trails or slopes?

Couple of skier only resorts as covered in other parts of this thread.

4. If I took up snowboarding and persevered long enough to become a decent
rider, would I be able to hit the slopes with the brother and/or
brother-in-law (I mean the ones within my capabilities)? Or is there
something awkward about going snowboarding with skiers? Does one get "left
in the dust," so to speak?

It's all about mileage. I've had friends who have moved out here
(Breckenridge) and become expert skiers or snowboarders in one season.
Most of them already had a background in some other balance sport
like surfing or rollerblading. The point is to get out as often as
you can and try to go with people who are better than you. You can
really start making drastic improvements when you get to the point
where you don't fall very often. Then you can usually keep up with
people who are a lot better and learn from them.

Also, when starting out, take some lessons. It's much easier to learn
the correct technique the first time then to learn something wrong and
have to unlearn it later.

As far as boarding with skiers goes, it helps to go with skiers who
have actually ridden before. Boarders need to ride through flat
sections where skiers might stop. Boarders need to stop at the
begining of a pitch after the flat section. Sometimes skiers can just
be oblivious to this so you need to remind them. It's also nice to
have some skiers in your group for some of the flat sections. When
I'm out with friends who ride and we hit a long flat, I'll give a pole
to my boarder friends if they need it.

By the way, I posted my inquiry here rather than in rec.skiing.alpine
because, contrary to the old stereotype about boarders being uncouth, this
group seems like a friendly, helpful forum, whereas r.s.a. (at least the
unmoderated version) is bedeviled by brutal flame wars.

Yeah, that's been going on for way to long. Some people would rather
bitch than ski. A good killfile helps a lot. The moderated group is
a bit low traffic and could use this kind of stuff from people like
you.

I've always been a skier and that will always be my first choice but I
have been out on a board probably more times than a lot of people
here. One thing that I've always found is that skiers were ruder to
me when I was on a board. I have never run into a boarder that was
rude to me because I was on skis. Just goes to show what sterotypes
are worth. But I also must note that the rude skiers really were not
skiers. They were tourists on vacation. The people who live here
know that it doesn't really matter what gear you are on as long as you
are having fun.

snoig

I think it's easier to progress faster on a snowboard. My reasoning
for this is that you pretty much have to learn the correct way to
snowboard from day one. A first timer has to make turns the same
basic way as a seasoned expert. With skis, you go through a
progression from snowplow, wedge turns to parallel turns. This takes
more time because you have to master each step.

I disagree. One does not have to "learn the correct way to snowboard
from day one". In most cases there is a progression in snowboarding
that is not terribly different from the skiing progression you mention
above:

Falling leafs and garlands
Skidded turns
Carved turns

I think snowboarders tend to get through the falling leaf stage faster
than skiers get through the snowplow stage... but they are just as
likely to be "terminal skidding intermediates" as skiers are to be
"terminal wedging intermediates"

You also have the same issues where the ability to carve a snowboard
falls apart on steeps and bumps, just like the ability to parallel ski
does.

Likewise, some people *think* they are carving their snowboard but they
aren't (still waiting too long to change edges and whipping it around)
and some people *think* they are parallel skiing but aren't. (I spent
most of my years as a skier in this type of delusion - was essentially
doing what I just described on a snowboard)

I think speed of progression depends on the person, and for any given
individual, whichever one they try first is going to take a little
longer to get good at.

Mike T

"Andrew Cleland" wrote in message
...
"David Brown \)" wrote in
:

"Christoph" wrote in message
how is that possible? not to allow it? isn´t this discrimination? an
interesting point...

I wouldn't have thought they could stop you boarding unless they own
the land but they could certainly stop you from using 'their' lifts.


Sadly:

http://www.alta.com/noboard.html

http://www.skitaos.org/MOUNTAIN/index.php (bottom of page)


The Taos resort is partly (wholly?) on federal land. I bet that if a group
of concerned snowboarders started complaining loudly and obtained a
politically influential advocate (e.g., a member of Congress with a child
who snowboards), Taos would eventually cave in and change its no-snowboard
policy. There is no ecological reason to exclude snowboards. This is not
like snowmobiles in Yellowstone; this is mere snobbery. Why should some
citizens be denied a right of recreation on federal land that is extended to
other citizens, and in fact to noncitizens as well? Why should a skier from,
say, Norway be able to enjoy U.S. land from which a snowboarder from Montana
is barred?! (I don't want to sound too chauvinistic, but these are the kinds
of arguments that work.)

Joe Ramirez

"Mike T" wrote in message
...
I think it's easier to progress faster on a snowboard. My reasoning
for this is that you pretty much have to learn the correct way to
snowboard from day one. A first timer has to make turns the same
basic way as a seasoned expert. With skis, you go through a
progression from snowplow, wedge turns to parallel turns. This takes
more time because you have to master each step.

I disagree. One does not have to "learn the correct way to snowboard
from day one". In most cases there is a progression in snowboarding
that is not terribly different from the skiing progression you mention
above:

Falling leafs and garlands
Skidded turns
Carved turns
[rest deleted]

All I can say is that I'm proud to have started a thread that has elicited
so much genuinely informative and interesting discussion.

Joe Ramirez

"Joe Ramirez" wrote in
:

"Andrew Cleland" wrote in message
...
"David Brown \)" wrote in
:

"Christoph" wrote in message
how is that possible? not to allow it? isn´t this discrimination?
an interesting point...

I wouldn't have thought they could stop you boarding unless they
own the land but they could certainly stop you from using 'their'
lifts.


Sadly:

http://www.alta.com/noboard.html

http://www.skitaos.org/MOUNTAIN/index.php (bottom of page)


The Taos resort is partly (wholly?) on federal land. I bet that if a
group of concerned snowboarders started complaining loudly and
obtained a politically influential advocate (e.g., a member of
Congress with a child who snowboards), Taos would eventually cave in
and change its no-snowboard policy. There is no ecological reason to
exclude snowboards. This is not like snowmobiles in Yellowstone; this
is mere snobbery. Why should some citizens be denied a right of
recreation on federal land that is extended to other citizens, and in
fact to noncitizens as well? Why should a skier from, say, Norway be
able to enjoy U.S. land from which a snowboarder from Montana is
barred?! (I don't want to sound too chauvinistic, but these are the
kinds of arguments that work.)

Joe Ramirez


Yup - it's not right. I think the main cause is fear - both of something
different (although snowboarding is hardly uncommon nowadays), but also
of crashes between boarders and skiers.

There are a whole load of (mainly spurious) arguments some skiers give
against borders - blind spots, lack of control, different routes down the
hill, to justify the ban. In most cases there would be no problem if the
skiers obeyed one of the most important points of the skiers/riders code
- the downhill skier/rider always has priority.

The whole thing has been argued to the nth degree more than a few times
on the internet. Interestingly, the good skiers, whose opinions I tend to
value, all tend to say that there is no conflict between skis and boards
- it's the blowhards who probably wedge all the way down black runs and
then say "they ski black runs regularly" who have the issues.

On a lighter note, moves are afoot at Taos:
http://expn.go.com/snb/s/taos_snowboarding.html

It's all good

AC.

"Joe Ramirez" wrote in message ...
"Mike T" wrote in message
...
I think it's easier to progress faster on a snowboard. My reasoning
for this is that you pretty much have to learn the correct way to
snowboard from day one. A first timer has to make turns the same
basic way as a seasoned expert. With skis, you go through a
progression from snowplow, wedge turns to parallel turns. This takes
more time because you have to master each step.

I disagree. One does not have to "learn the correct way to snowboard
from day one". In most cases there is a progression in snowboarding
that is not terribly different from the skiing progression you mention
above:

Falling leafs and garlands
Skidded turns
Carved turns
[rest deleted]

All I can say is that I'm proud to have started a thread that has elicited
so much genuinely informative and interesting discussion.

Joe Ramirez

So what's it going to be then, skiing or snowboarding? 8^)

snoig

He's gone for boarding (see later thread), but I reckon he'll be skiing
after the first week )

"David Brown )" wrote in message
...
He's gone for boarding (see later thread), but I reckon he'll be skiing
after the first week )

O ye of little faith! We shall see.

Joe Ramirez

"Jürgen Schmadlak" wrote in message
...
Joe Ramirez wrote:

1. Am I correct about the learning curves of boarding vs.
skiing? If not,
what's the reality?

I was skiing vor 15 years. Then I paused for 15 years and
started
snowboarding in 2002 at the age of 36.


A friend of mine just started skiing again after an unsucessful
year of trying 30 years ago. She was far better her first day
than she was 30 years ago. She is doing multiple intermediate
runs on her third day. The modern equipment, and a lifetime of
activity (and some good instruction :-) made a huge difference.

As a beginner it is easier to go down the trail without eating
snow
by ski. After your second day on the board you will understand
what
*real* muscular strain is. Skiing is easier but boarding is
more
fun.

My experience is that the first couple days of boarding,
especially the 1st, can be very painful. The falls are unexpected
and very hard. After that though, the learning curve may be
faster.

I have been boarding for about 3 years, and teaching skiing for
4. I got myself into the snowboard instructor clinics this year,
and I must say that instruction is the most important thing you
can get if you want to learn fast. My riding quality has
drastically improved from learning the right way to use the
board. My confidence has improved even more. Everything just work
better. I certainly recommend finding a good instructor.

Bob