Fischer Centrix Classic Boot - On-Snow Review

I had used my new Centrix classic ski boots a couple of time roller
skiing. I mostly double poled so it wasn't the greatest test. But I
did appreciate the support these boots had. So I looked forward to
getting them on snow and try striding in them.

I got a chance to try them on snow this weekend at Hatcher Pass. I
quickly found that these boots need some break-in time. This should
not be taken at as criticism of the boots - my old Salomon Skate 9's,
that eventually fit like slippers, had some break-in time with them
too. I talked to other skiers that had been on snow during the week
and had been using Centrix boots. They said the same thing ... a few
blisters at first, but the boots started feeling good after a few uses.
My take on this is that if you want better support in a boot ...
unfortunately you have to suffer a bit through a break-in period. So
make sure you bring your old boots along when you first go skiing with
these. In case you have the hot heels situation - the old boots can
save the day until the Centrixes break-in.

One think I like about the Centrixes is the fact that you can put them
on like a shoe. They are easy to get on and off. I say this after
suffering entries and exits with the Salomon Carbon classic boots.
What a pain-in-the ass design the Carbons are for getting on and off.
You have to do a neoprene cuff Houdini act to contort in and out of
them. Dumb.

One thing to note with the Centrixes is that the buyer should try and
make sure they are going to fit right, before they walk out of the
store. With traditional ski boots - fit can be tweaked with orthodics
and various insole and heel inserts. Most all of these foot support
products are designed to be used with flat-bed foot surfaces. The
Centrix has a rounded foot bet. So inserts may, or may not, work as
expected in these boots. I tried the inserts that I like to use
(Powerbed insole with a Tempur-pedic insole on top) in the Centrix.
The Centrix footbed is not that rounded ... so it seems like such a
modification will work. But it's not quite the same as the old style
foot beds.

Another issue: the use of neoprene in the boot. Now this is an issue
that is not Fischer specific. I think Rossi started using neoprene,
then Salomon, now Fischer. What's the problem with neoprene? it's a
fabric that does not make sense for winter use.

Neoprene is what they make wet suits out of. They call them "wet
suits" because neoprene makes one wet inside. Do you want to have wet
feet inside minimally insulated boots in the winter? Combine neoprene
with other non-breathable fabrics on a boot - and you have a problem.

The fact that neoprene is not a good winter fabric is nothing new. I
remember getting ready to climb Mt. McKinly and asking a veteran
climber what the deal was with neoprene socks. He, wisely, said that
neoprene socks are dangerous. They keep your feet warm, though wet,
while you are moving - but you have to get them off fast when you stop
or your feet will rapidly cool and freeze.

The advice above was given to me in 1984. Now 20 years later our new
generations of boot designers seem to have to relearn this lesson - at
the expense of skiers' cold feet. Non-breathing boots make sense for
World Cup racers - where they race in mostly moderate Central Europe of
Scandinavian temps. And they likely take their boots off soon after
they race.

But for real world North American skiing where temps can stay frigid
for long periods of time in places like New England, Minnesota, Alaska
and Canada - wearing boots that are guaranteed to give you wet feet is
not good. It's especially not good if you have to stand around after
exercising - like if your are a coach or you want to go back out and
cheer on your spouse or teammates. Or if you are a citizen racer
that's going to take 4 hours to complete the Birkie in cold weather.
The Salomon Classic 9s and Skate 9s still have the breathability to
make them good cold weather boots. I wish boot manufacturers would
recognize this and make better boots for skiing in North America.

I should say ... that this review is coming from an athlete that has
not been sponsored by anyone in the last 25 years or so. I'm a
consumer that just wants a good product at a good price. Just like
you.

My bottom line on the Fischer Centrix Classic Boot: It's a keeper
.... I just need to give them more love so they start giving more love
to my heels.

BTW - skiing at Hatcher Pass was sunny, 23 F, extra blue/ VR40 on
packed powder. Oh yeah! =

I taped up my heels with Moleskin and put a few more on-snow hours on
my Centrix classics. Seems like they are breaking in. I used to wear
Perterson power-bed instoles in my Salomon classic boots. I needed
these for arch support. So far I don't need them in the Centrixes.

Only other thing I found so far - the zipper on top can creep open.
The zipper does not have a locking zipper pull. Maybe this is good
because it could freeze. But because of the position of the zipper
(right at the front of your leg where ankle flex is greatest) it's
always fighting downward cuff flex and can tend to work loose.

Especially when you get the boots wet in new powder - the wet neoprene
seems to freeze and side to side pull on the zipper is more, and the
zipper starts sliding down a bit. I noticed this as I was skiing in 10
inches of powder for a bit the other day ... when I skied out onto the
track a zipper had come open and my boot was full of snow.

I realize that these boots were designed for World Cup racers - who
likely rarely ski off of a perfectly groomed trail. But geez. I'm
thinking of rubbing soft wax (like CH10) on the zippers, and "gumming
them up", to see if that will reduce the zipper creep. I'm wondering
if others have found (will find) this problem ... or is this just the
zippers on my boots? Or the fit of my boots? / my technique? / my leg
shape?

If I were designing these boots - I would have put a narrow nylon cover
that velcroes down over a zipper with a locking pull. The locking pull
would keep the neoprene cuff from accidentally zipping open. And the
cover would keep snow off the zipper and pull so it wouldn't freeze.
The other design option would have been to make cuff higher. This would
have made the stress on the end of the zipper only side-to-side. And
there would be no leg movement pushing the zipper down the boot like
there is now.

For what it's worth ... TK

Tim Kelley wrote:
I taped up my heels with Moleskin and put a few more on-snow hours on
my Centrix classics. Seems like they are breaking in. I used to
wear
Perterson power-bed instoles in my Salomon classic boots. I needed
these for arch support. So far I don't need them in the Centrixes.

TK,

How about a little info on your feet. You mention arch support. Wide?
Narrow? Mountains for instep?

Just curious,

Jay Wenner (not to be confused with Jay Tegeder, Jey Carlson, Barb
Wenner, or Bjorn Dahlie)

Bjorn A. Payne Diaz wrote:
Tim Kelley wrote:

I taped up my heels with Moleskin and put a few more on-snow hours on
my Centrix classics. Seems like they are breaking in. I used to

wear

Perterson power-bed instoles in my Salomon classic boots. I needed
these for arch support. So far I don't need them in the Centrixes.


TK,

How about a little info on your feet. You mention arch support. Wide?
Narrow? Mountains for instep?

Just curious,

Jay Wenner (not to be confused with Jay Tegeder, Jey Carlson, Barb
Wenner, or Bjorn Dahlie)


OK, I've can't comment on the classic variety, but I've got about 40
hours in the skate boot. Caveat: I love my carbon classics. They fit
like a bedroom slipper, although not as warm. If Salomon threatens to
change the last, I'll go buy another pair and keep them on the shelf.
Overall fit for the Centrix skates is pretty OK. I'm still messing
around with factory and Superfeet insoles to get them a little tighter
in spots, but my original thoughts still stand - pretty dang good.
Skiing this weekend, I felt like I had pretty good (actually very good)
control and felt like I was getting better ankle flexion than with my
Xiums. Downhill was cake. The skis as well as could be hoped, and even
with pretty sloppy snow I never felt any wierd tendencies to wander. No
tendency to roll at the ankle.
The bad: The laces suck. Trying to get the right amount of tension on
the laces isn't pretty. Tying knots in them is even less so. I guess
the Salomon is a love or hate thing, but I miss the one pull kevlar
lace. Even the Rossi system runs rings around tying them. Fischer - are
you listening???

Marsh Jones

For what it's worth, I tried on a pair of Fischer skate boots the other day
and they had by far the highest arch of any boot I've ever tried. For me it
was unusable (unless I could do something about the insole). I wasn't in
the market, but was kind of relieved in that I felt they were not an option
for me regardless of whether they're a better design or not. But my foot is
fairly flat. I know two people with Fischers and both are very happy with
them - after a little getting used to they say. I guess the heel is
different - higher than other boots?

Cam

--

"Bjorn A. Payne Diaz" wrote in message
ups.com...

Jay Wenner (not to be confused with Jay Tegeder, Jey Carlson, Barb
Wenner, or Bjorn Dahlie)


Nice user name. Self assessment or wife/mother label.... LOL ;-)


Jeff Clausen
Whitefish, MT

To reply you need to dig the sliver out.

Marsh Jones wrote:
Overall fit for the Centrix skates is pretty OK.

Marsh, what type of feet do you have? I'm just trying to get a feel for
what type of feet fit in the boots. It seems people with wide feet hate
the Salomon Carbons but think the old bumble bees are just bees knees.
It seems like people with high arches would like the Fischers, but
Tegeder has flat feet and he loves his. So it may be difficult to
pigeon-hole the fit.

Jay Wenner

Bjorn A. Payne Diaz wrote:
Marsh Jones wrote:

Overall fit for the Centrix skates is pretty OK.


Marsh, what type of feet do you have? I'm just trying to get a feel for
what type of feet fit in the boots. It seems people with wide feet hate
the Salomon Carbons but think the old bumble bees are just bees knees.
It seems like people with high arches would like the Fischers, but
Tegeder has flat feet and he loves his. So it may be difficult to
pigeon-hole the fit.

Jay Wenner

I've got PITA feet - finding running shoes is always really fun. Some
Adidas that are intended for the Euro market fit great, Nikes don't fit
at all... Probably a 'B' heel and a 'D' forefoot. On top of that, I've
got a fairly high arch, Morton's toe and mild Plantar Faschitis. My
guess is that the Fischers are a much better fit for someone with normal
to wider feet, a moderate arch and gee, just sort of average.
I am currently playing with a black Superfeet for insoles. Next will be
adding a thin full foot shim.

I'm still trying to quantify the difference in feel. I think one thing
is that my forefoot doesn't feel like it's falling off the sole of the
boot when I push - does that make any sense?

Marsh

Full heel and regular achilles required, since no heel adjustment. Wide
feet best. Walk around the store for 15 minutes or more and trust your
instincts. These either fit or don't, unlike the Salomon regular skate
which can be stretched.

Gene

"Bjorn A. Payne Diaz" wrote:

Marsh Jones wrote:
Overall fit for the Centrix skates is pretty OK.

Marsh, what type of feet do you have? I'm just trying to get a feel for
what type of feet fit in the boots. It seems people with wide feet hate
the Salomon Carbons but think the old bumble bees are just bees knees.
It seems like people with high arches would like the Fischers, but
Tegeder has flat feet and he loves his. So it may be difficult to
pigeon-hole the fit.

Jay Wenner

Gene Goldenfeld wrote:
Full heel and regular achilles required, since no heel adjustment.
Wide
feet best. Walk around the store for 15 minutes or more and trust
your
instincts. These either fit or don't, unlike the Salomon regular
skate
which can be stretched.

Gene,

While you may be right, I wouldn't count on it. I've been asking around
and while it _seems_ like certain foot dimensions are probably best,
I'm hearing some conflicting reports such as flat feet vs. high arch,
and that people with opposite types of feet like the boots. It's still
early since there's no snow.
A shoe repair store can stretch the boot, at least in width. I'd be
interested to hear if the length can be stretched.

So Marsh, what's a PITA foot....something about the ethical treatment
of animals?

Jay Wenner