Samoens advice

When is the main rush? I tend to leave between 17:00 and 21:00 which I
thought would be the main rush out of the resort. I have been held up
coming down from Tigne by being stuck behind coaches, but never anywhere
near 3 hours. I was held up once by the Tour de France once, but that is
another story. I do not know if it will ever happen but I did see what
looked like a planning permission notice a couple of years ago proposing
a bypass for BsM.

Main rush is 8am-11am because with most accommodation you have to be
out by 10am. Going through BsM used to be dreadful but has got better.
I have heard that there are still bottle necks during busy periods too
(no experience myself as I don't tend to go skiing during February
half-term or the like!).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
XS
Peak Retreats http://www.peakretreats.co.uk
Ski Collection http://www.skicollection.co.uk

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 03:06:10 -0700, Excess wrote:


I do not know if it will ever happen but I did see what
looked like a planning permission notice a couple of years ago proposing
a bypass for BsM.

I don't think there'd be any point, as it'd only shift the delay to
Aime of Moutiers. At its busiest I've seen that whole road choc-a-bloc
anyway, so unless they were going to build a tunnel all of the way to
Albertville or Courmayeur I don't see that a bypass would be of much
use. Anyway, there's already one therem for those that knoiw where to
look.

Main rush is 8am-11am because with most accommodation you have to be
out by 10am. Going through BsM used to be dreadful but has got better.
I have heard that there are still bottle necks during busy periods too
(no experience myself as I don't tend to go skiing during February
half-term or the like!).

I still don't understand why anyone would do this - Either ski in your
own resort or part at Bourg and take the Arc-en-ciel up, then leave at
around five when there's no traffic and stop in Annecy or thereabouts,
completing the journey on Sunday.

It's the _only_ logical approach, IMO.

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 03:06:10 -0700, Excess wrote:


I do not know if it will ever happen but I did see what
looked like a planning permission notice a couple of years ago proposing
a bypass for BsM.

I don't think there'd be any point, as it'd only shift the delay to
Aime of Moutiers. At its busiest I've seen that whole road choc-a-bloc
anyway, so unless they were going to build a tunnel all of the way to
Albertville or Courmayeur I don't see that a bypass would be of much
use. Anyway, there's already one there, for those that know where to
look ;-)

Main rush is 8am-11am because with most accommodation you have to be
out by 10am. Going through BsM used to be dreadful but has got better.

I still don't understand why anyone would do this - either ski in your
own resort or park at Bourg and take the Arc-en-ciel up to Arcs 1600,
then leave at around five when there's no traffic and stop in Annecy
or thereabouts, completing the journey on Sunday.

It's the _only_ logical approach, IMO.
--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

"Ace" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 03:06:10 -0700, Excess wrote:


I do not know if it will ever happen but I did see what
looked like a planning permission notice a couple of years ago proposing
a bypass for BsM.

I don't think there'd be any point, as it'd only shift the delay to
Aime of Moutiers. At its busiest I've seen that whole road choc-a-bloc
anyway, so unless they were going to build a tunnel all of the way to
Albertville or Courmayeur I don't see that a bypass would be of much
use. Anyway, there's already one there, for those that know where to
look ;-)

Main rush is 8am-11am because with most accommodation you have to be
out by 10am. Going through BsM used to be dreadful but has got better.

I still don't understand why anyone would do this - either ski in your
own resort or park at Bourg and take the Arc-en-ciel up to Arcs 1600,
then leave at around five when there's no traffic and stop in Annecy
or thereabouts, completing the journey on Sunday.

It's the _only_ logical approach, IMO.

There are some 'alternative routes' that cut out the jams in BSM itself, but
you don't gain much time if the traffic is backed up to Aime or worse. The
trouble with the route on the other side of the valley is that it is well
known, and can take an hour or more just to get back onto the main route at
Aime etc.

Yes, much better to wait until Saturday evening before leaving as ace says,
or even to hand in keys etc and leave Friday night.

There are plans for improvements along the RN 90 prior to Val d'Isère 2009
(World Champs) ... including a tunnel north of Moutiers (not sure if that's
going ro happen as it would be hugely expensive), a second Ponserand tunnel
(mainly because of landslide risk in this area), an extension near Villette
of the recently completed dual carriageway bypass (Centron), and four
overtaking stretches with an extra third lane between Aime and BSM (three
heading down the valley, one heading up).

Pete
http://mysnowsports.com

On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 07:57:27 +0200, "PG" wrote:


"Ace" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 03:06:10 -0700, Excess wrote:


I do not know if it will ever happen but I did see what
looked like a planning permission notice a couple of years ago proposing
a bypass for BsM.

Anyway, there's already one there, for those that know where to
look ;-)

There are some 'alternative routes' that cut out the jams in BSM itself, but
you don't gain much time if the traffic is backed up to Aime or worse. The
trouble with the route on the other side of the valley is that it is well
known, and can take an hour or more just to get back onto the main route at
Aime etc.

Ahh, but you're nly looking at half the route. If the traffic's really
bad, such that rejoining in Aime is going to take you that sort of
time, you can actually go across the La Pl;agne road and carry on
round towards Moutiers, rejoining at Les Plains (yes, I had to consult
Mappy for the name).

It's been years since I did this all the way from BSM, but I've used
the same bit as a traffic-avoiding route from La Plagne in more recent
times. Of course, the best options is simply to avoid leaving at busy
times.

There are plans for improvements along the RN 90 prior to Val d'Isère 2009
(World Champs) ... including a tunnel north of Moutiers (not sure if that's
going ro happen as it would be hugely expensive), a second Ponserand tunnel
(mainly because of landslide risk in this area), an extension near Villette
of the recently completed dual carriageway bypass (Centron), and four
overtaking stretches with an extra third lane between Aime and BSM (three
heading down the valley, one heading up).

Well it'd all help, I suppose, but you're still left with the same
basic under-capacity overall. Now, if you could just persuade the
French hotels and apartment operators, and the general public, of
course, to move half of the bookings to a Sun-Sun basis instead of
Sat-Sat...

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

"Ace" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 07:57:27 +0200, "PG" wrote:


"Ace" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 03:06:10 -0700, Excess wrote:


I do not know if it will ever happen but I did see what
looked like a planning permission notice a couple of years ago
proposing
a bypass for BsM.

Anyway, there's already one there, for those that know where to
look ;-)

There are some 'alternative routes' that cut out the jams in BSM itself,
but
you don't gain much time if the traffic is backed up to Aime or worse. The
trouble with the route on the other side of the valley is that it is well
known, and can take an hour or more just to get back onto the main route
at
Aime etc.

Ahh, but you're nly looking at half the route. If the traffic's really
bad, such that rejoining in Aime is going to take you that sort of
time, you can actually go across the La Pl;agne road and carry on
round towards Moutiers, rejoining at Les Plains (yes, I had to consult
Mappy for the name).

Last year mid-Feb, on the one occasion that I had no choice but to drive on
a Saturday to Chambery, the gendarmes were sifting the traffic and stopping
non-locals from taking this 'rat-run', forcing them back onto the main road.
A 73 reg saved the day.

Plus Aime itself was completely blocked up, nothing moving, with the
congestion arriving from all points. That includes all roads across from the
south of the valley where you have no choice but to get across the Aime
area. On the south side traffic was back up for at least a couple of kms
before Aime, heading down the valley.

"Ace" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 07:57:27 +0200, "PG" wrote:

There are plans for improvements along the RN 90 prior to Val d'Isère 2009
(World Champs) ... including a tunnel north of Moutiers (not sure if
that's
going ro happen as it would be hugely expensive), a second Ponserand
tunnel
(mainly because of landslide risk in this area), an extension near
Villette
of the recently completed dual carriageway bypass (Centron), and four
overtaking stretches with an extra third lane between Aime and BSM (three
heading down the valley, one heading up).

Well it'd all help, I suppose, but you're still left with the same
basic under-capacity overall. Now, if you could just persuade the
French hotels and apartment operators, and the general public, of
course, to move half of the bookings to a Sun-Sun basis instead of
Sat-Sat...

Something will have to be done other than the above (road improvement)
cosmetics, given that thousands of new beds are being added in Les Arcs
(1600, 1800) alone, and there are big new developments going up each year in
La Ros, Ste Foy, Espace Killy, La P. A big increase in capacity can only
mean a corresponding increase in congestion during peak periods.

Pete

On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 11:21:08 +0200, "PG" wrote:


"Ace" a écrit dans le message de news:
...

Ahh, but you're nly looking at half the route. If the traffic's really
bad, such that rejoining in Aime is going to take you that sort of
time, you can actually go across the La Pl;agne road and carry on
round towards Moutiers, rejoining at Les Plains (yes, I had to consult
Mappy for the name).

Last year mid-Feb, on the one occasion that I had no choice but to drive on
a Saturday to Chambery, the gendarmes were sifting the traffic and stopping
non-locals from taking this 'rat-run', forcing them back onto the main road.

*******s. It wouldn't help, of course, to tell them that they've no
legal right to do this. "Never argue with a man wearing a gun."

A 73 reg saved the day.

Lucky you.

Plus Aime itself was completely blocked up, nothing moving, with the
congestion arriving from all points. That includes all roads across from the
south of the valley where you have no choice but to get across the Aime
area.

Yeah, I've seen it like that too. That would be the last time I took
the 'rat-run' out. Not planning to be down that way this year, so
thankfully it's not likely to affect me.
--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 11:33:19 +0200, "PG" wrote:

"Ace" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
Now, if you could just persuade the
French hotels and apartment operators, and the general public, of
course, to move half of the bookings to a Sun-Sun basis instead of
Sat-Sat...

Something will have to be done other than the above (road improvement)
cosmetics, given that thousands of new beds are being added in Les Arcs
(1600, 1800) alone, and there are big new developments going up each year in
La Ros, Ste Foy, Espace Killy, La P. A big increase in capacity can only
mean a corresponding increase in congestion during peak periods.

There _is_ a much better, simple solution, already in place, which you
only need to pop across to Suisse to see working well in action[1].
Problem is, of course, that the frogs do like to bring a whole week's
worth of groceries with them, which might


[1] By which I mean, of course, that most of the Swiss are happy to
take the train, and connections with buses etc. are good, so that the
roads are relatively[2] free for me to drive on.
[2] Relative to the French Alpes, that is. Of course, if you choose
busy resorts at busy times there are still some problems, but even in
the worst bottleneck areas, for example around Thun where you have
traffic for Gstaad, the Interlaken resorts, Adelboden and the Valais
resorts via the Lotschberg tunnel the delays are not in the same order
of magnitude as you can get in the Tarentaise.


--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:07:38 +0200, Ace wrote:

On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 11:33:19 +0200, "PG" wrote:

"Ace" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
Now, if you could just persuade the
French hotels and apartment operators, and the general public, of
course, to move half of the bookings to a Sun-Sun basis instead of
Sat-Sat...

Something will have to be done other than the above (road improvement)
cosmetics, given that thousands of new beds are being added in Les Arcs
(1600, 1800) alone, and there are big new developments going up each year in
La Ros, Ste Foy, Espace Killy, La P. A big increase in capacity can only
mean a corresponding increase in congestion during peak periods.

There _is_ a much better, simple solution, already in place, which you
only need to pop across to Suisse to see working well in action[1].
Problem is, of course, that the frogs do like to bring a whole week's
worth of groceries with them, which might


[1] By which I mean, of course, that most of the Swiss are happy to
take the train, and connections with buses etc. are good, so that the
roads are relatively[2] free for me to drive on.
[2] Relative to the French Alpes, that is. Of course, if you choose
busy resorts at busy times there are still some problems, but even in
the worst bottleneck areas, for example around Thun where you have
traffic for Gstaad, the Interlaken resorts, Adelboden and the Valais
resorts via the Lotschberg tunnel the delays are not in the same order
of magnitude as you can get in the Tarentaise.


The joy of taking the Eurostar to Moutiers

Feb half term two years ago we went to La Tania. 11 hours door to
door (Lincoln - La Tania). Stood in the bar on the Saturday night
listening to tales of 10 hour minibus connection from Lyon to
resort.....

Stan