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#1
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How do you determine your ski ability level?
I have read, heard and seen people claim to be an intermediate level skier
because they can turn and stop or have skied a few times on season. Most have skied less than 20 times and generally at the same mountain. I would consider this skier a beginner and a far cry from intermediate level. The same applies to the skier that claims to be an advance skier because they can make it down a black diamond at a small mountain. So how should a skier's level be determined? This is also important to know for many skiers so they are better able to get the right equipment for themselves. using these levels: beginner, intermediate, advance, expert & master (a skier that can ski just about anything that is skiable - "extreme skiers" also has the knowledge and experience to go along with it). Thanks, JQ Dancing on the edge |
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#2
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JQ wrote:
I have read, heard and seen people claim to be an intermediate level skier because they can turn and stop or have skied a few times on season. Most have skied less than 20 times and generally at the same mountain. I would consider this skier a beginner and a far cry from intermediate level. The same applies to the skier that claims to be an advance skier because they can make it down a black diamond at a small mountain. So how should a skier's level be determined? This is also important to know for many skiers so they are better able to get the right equipment for themselves. using these levels: beginner, intermediate, advance, expert & master (a skier that can ski just about anything that is skiable - "extreme skiers" also has the knowledge and experience to go along with it). I think it depends on what purpose you're determining for. For choosing gear? Doesn't really matter what you call yourself. Demo demo demo, ski on 'em and find out if they're too hot, too cold, or just right. Or find something you like and ask around for comparable stuff. For choosing a mountain? Talk to someone who knows your mountain and the trails you ski on. Tell what trails you've skied, and be honest about your comfort level with different trails and conditions. For choosing a level in ski school? Most ski schools have a lot of different levels, and pretty verbose descriptions about what you should be able to do to fit in a level. Again, be honest about what you can do, and you'll find your level. For fronting at the bar? That depends on whether you think you'll be rejected out of hand for being a mere beginner, or whether you can think ahead enough to imagine your embarrassment the next day at showing your objet de lust (to whom you described yourself as an "intermediate) just how much of a beginner you are ;-) IOW, apart from "beginner", the labels aren't terribly useful, so don't bother with 'em. -- Mary Malmros Some days you're the windshield, other days you're the bug. |
#3
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JQ wrote:
So how should a skier's level be determined? We've been through this before - http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1FE26839 http://groups.google.com/groups?q=real+SKier+vs.+Expert&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=CBo8Ey.Ms4%40ced.utah.edu&rnum=1 The problem you have discovered is that intermediate doesn't mean "between beginner and expert", it means "wow, you can turn and stop! you should feel proud!" And they should, so let them have "intermediate" - irrationality is a small price to pay to encourage a new skier to continue. Let him think he's half way there - by the time he finds out the truth, he's hooked. |
#4
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On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 19:11:17 -0400, Mary Malmros
wrote: //snip// I think it depends on what purpose you're determining for. In reality, there really is no reason to make such a subjective determination in the first place. All of this PSIA implemented geometric mumbo-jumbo is just plain nonsense anyway. I think someone needed to justify a job position. Also, this system of color coded circles, squares, and diamonds is all eye candy too, because, in reality, the snow conditions, light conditions, weather and visibility are more of a factor in determining difficulty than is the actual run. Hell, if I had to ski on an eastern intermediate (blue square) run that was iced-over and/or covered with moguls, that would be much more difficult for me to handle than a Wasatch double black covered with a few feet of "the greatest snow on earth". Also, a green circle that is wall-to-wall with skiers that don't know how to ski and with no room to maneuver while cruising at 45 MPH is much more difficult and dangerous than a blue square that is empty while cruising at 70+ MPH. For choosing gear? Doesn't really matter what you call yourself. Demo demo demo, ski on 'em and find out if they're too hot, too cold, or just right. Or find something you like and ask around for comparable stuff. Don't waste your time or money on these so-called "demos" that the ski shops charge big $$ for. In reality, they are just high-end, expensive rentals. However, if you can find an actual demo van that will allow you to ski (demo) them for free, or somewhere that is truly allowing you to demo a ski for free, then that is different. Go for it. The best thing to do is to purchase a top of the line ski about a year or two *after* it was first introduced. For example, this year...right now, read the ski reviews in the ski mags and on the internet, and then keep those old mags and reviews. And, more importantly, talk to good skiers about what they are skiing on. Lift conversation...if 50 skiers tell you that a Head XXX is a good ski, then it probably is. Then, next year, or in a few years, take the ski reviews and your knowledge with you to the pre-season, or late season sales and ski swaps, and grab a pair of something that had a good review. But you need to be prepared with several options, because the good stuff usually goes quick, or it's never there in the first place. You can adjust your style to just about *any* ski, and, you will save a ton of money in the process. A two year old pair of new skis will ski just as good as a new pair of new skis. All that money you save can be applied towards defeating gravity with a ski lift. For the first 10 years, or so, or until you get good at keeping your stuff together, purchase the cheapest gloves, hats, and goggles that you can find because you will lose them every year or two anyway. BTW, never, ever place a pair of gloves or a hat on the roof of your car, especially at the end of the ski day. For choosing a mountain? Talk to someone who knows your mountain and the trails you ski on. Tell what trails you've skied, and be honest about your comfort level with different trails and conditions. Just tell them that you are either a good skier, or you suck. For choosing a level in ski school? Most ski schools have a lot of different levels, and pretty verbose descriptions about what you should be able to do to fit in a level. Again, be honest about what you can do, and you'll find your level. I've instructed a lot of good skiers on how to ski deep powder, including PSIA certified instructors from back east who can blow me away on ice and hard pack, but are basically beginners in the Utah powder on a deep day. I'm not talking about the deep stuff. I'm talking about the *really* DEEP stuff. I've never asked anyone how good they are. I watch the skier make a few turns in the powder, and that's about all it takes to make the determination on how and where to proceed. What's my point? Well, maybe the ski schools should actually watch the potential students make a few turns *before* they segregate them into groups based upon a skill level that the student determined by reading a few paragraphs from the PSIA bible. Maybe some places already do this, I don't know. For fronting at the bar? That depends on whether you think you'll be rejected out of hand for being a mere beginner, or whether you can think ahead enough to imagine your embarrassment the next day at showing your objet de lust (to whom you described yourself as an "intermediate) just how much of a beginner you are ;-) IOW, apart from "beginner", the labels aren't terribly useful, so don't bother with 'em. Doesn't matter. If it's a decent bar, and you and everyone else had a good time, no one will remember what you said the night before anyway. Unless of course, it was your performance in bed, and not your performance on the mountain that you (and Mr. Bud) were over-rating! -Astro --- maximum exposure f/2.8 http://www.xmission.com/~hound/astro/03-04/index.htm --- |
#5
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"JQ" wrote in message ... I have read, heard and seen people claim to be an intermediate level skier because they can turn and stop or have skied a few times on season. Most have skied less than 20 times and generally at the same mountain. I would consider this skier a beginner and a far cry from intermediate level. The same applies to the skier that claims to be an advance skier because they can make it down a black diamond at a small mountain. So how should a skier's level be determined? This is also important to know for many skiers so they are better able to get the right equipment for themselves. using these levels: beginner, intermediate, advance, expert & master (a skier that can ski just about anything that is skiable - "extreme skiers" also has the knowledge and experience to go along with it). Thanks, JQ Dancing on the edge If you "own" to one extent or the other, all of the basic tools/ elements/building blocks/whatever you call them that make a ski do what it does, at that point in time you are an advanced skier, ready to move into whatever expert territory you wish. If you have an understanding and can make some use of body position, crossover, weight distribution, lead change, steering, angulation, rotation and counter rotation, pole use and maybe a few more yet unnamed, you *are* an advanced skier. If you do not, you are but still an intermediate. |
#6
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AstroPax wrote:
On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 19:11:17 -0400, Mary Malmros wrote: //snip// I think it depends on what purpose you're determining for. In reality, there really is no reason to make such a subjective determination in the first place. All of this PSIA implemented geometric mumbo-jumbo is just plain nonsense anyway. That's what I said; I just took longer to say it ;-) [snip] Also, a green circle that is wall-to-wall with skiers that don't know how to ski and with no room to maneuver while cruising at 45 MPH is much more difficult and dangerous than a blue square that is empty while cruising at 70+ MPH. When I was teaching little kids last year, there were more blue squares that we took them on than green circles. We were ordered, in no uncertain terms, not to take kids on the long, top-to-bottom green runs -- the traffic was more dangerous than the terrain on the blue runs. For choosing gear? Doesn't really matter what you call yourself. Demo demo demo, ski on 'em and find out if they're too hot, too cold, or just right. Or find something you like and ask around for comparable stuff. Don't waste your time or money on these so-called "demos" that the ski shops charge big $$ for. In reality, they are just high-end, expensive rentals. However, if you can find an actual demo van that will allow you to ski (demo) them for free, or somewhere that is truly allowing you to demo a ski for free, then that is different. Go for it. The best thing to do is to purchase a top of the line ski about a year or two *after* it was first introduced. Mmm, yeah, but it's better to do so after gathering _some_ data. "Top of the line" equals "too much ski" for a lot of people. For example, this year...right now, read the ski reviews in the ski mags and on the internet, and then keep those old mags and reviews. And, more importantly, talk to good skiers about what they are skiing on. ....if they ski like you do. [snip] For the first 10 years, or so, or until you get good at keeping your stuff together, purchase the cheapest gloves, hats, and goggles that you can find because you will lose them every year or two anyway. BTW, never, ever place a pair of gloves or a hat on the roof of your car, especially at the end of the ski day. And don't place them on top of the rack outside the lodge while you lock your skis. For choosing a mountain? Talk to someone who knows your mountain and the trails you ski on. Tell what trails you've skied, and be honest about your comfort level with different trails and conditions. Just tell them that you are either a good skier, or you suck. If I had a nickel for every three-day wonder who self-describes as a "good skier", I'd never have to work again. For choosing a level in ski school? Most ski schools have a lot of different levels, and pretty verbose descriptions about what you should be able to do to fit in a level. Again, be honest about what you can do, and you'll find your level. I've instructed a lot of good skiers on how to ski deep powder, including PSIA certified instructors from back east who can blow me away on ice and hard pack, but are basically beginners in the Utah powder on a deep day. I'm not talking about the deep stuff. I'm talking about the *really* DEEP stuff. I've never asked anyone how good they are. I watch the skier make a few turns in the powder, and that's about all it takes to make the determination on how and where to proceed. What's my point? Well, maybe the ski schools should actually watch the potential students make a few turns *before* they segregate them into groups based upon a skill level that the student determined by reading a few paragraphs from the PSIA bible. Maybe some places already do this, I don't know. Some do, but the problem is that the formats they set up mostly don't allow that. The hour-and-a-half lesson means you get what you got, especially if you're an "intermediate", in which case your group scatters up the mountain, and if someone ends up being wildly inappropriate for the group, there's not much you can do. I did a day-long clinic a few years back where all the students and all the instructors went up together and skied half a run, and then they divvied us up. That worked great. Also, when teaching kids in the beginner area, my fellow instructors and I would do tradesies all the time, and that worked well, too -- but we had the kids for at least half a day, and we were all close together. -- Mary Malmros Some days you're the windshield, other days you're the bug. |
#7
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"JQ" wrote in message ...
I have read, heard and seen people claim to be an intermediate level skier because they can turn and stop or have skied a few times on season. Most have skied less than 20 times and generally at the same mountain. I would consider this skier a beginner and a far cry from intermediate level. The same applies to the skier that claims to be an advance skier because they can make it down a black diamond at a small mountain. So how should a skier's level be determined? This is also important to know for many skiers so they are better able to get the right equipment for themselves. using these levels: beginner, intermediate, advance, expert & master (a skier that can ski just about anything that is skiable - "extreme skiers" also has the knowledge and experience to go along with it). Thanks, JQ Dancing on the edge I think it's fairly easy to see when you have a beginner on your hands. Within that group of beginners the ski schools and rental departments divide them out into beginner, intermediate, and advanced. So, when you see others calling themselves intermediates and they're clearly beginners - think it goes w/o saying that they're intermediate-beginners and that's what they mean by calling themselves an "intermediate". Cut them some slack -they're just trying to learn how to ski. |
#8
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AstroPax wrote:
You can adjust your style to just about *any* ski, Definition of a good skier. |
#9
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In article , "JQ"
wrote: I have read, heard and seen people claim to be an intermediate level skier because they can turn and stop or have skied a few times on season. Most have skied less than 20 times and generally at the same mountain. I would consider this skier a beginner and a far cry from intermediate level. The same applies to the skier that claims to be an advance skier because they can make it down a black diamond at a small mountain. So how should a skier's level be determined? This is also important to know for many skiers so they are better able to get the right equipment for themselves. using these levels: beginner, intermediate, advance, expert & master (a skier that can ski just about anything that is skiable - "extreme skiers" also has the knowledge and experience to go along with it). Thanks, JQ Dancing on the edge I'm trying to figure out why you care so much what other people choose to call themselves... -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia "If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard." |
#10
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"Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "JQ" wrote: I have read, heard and seen people claim to be an intermediate level skier because they can turn and stop or have skied a few times on season. Most have skied less than 20 times and generally at the same mountain. I would consider this skier a beginner and a far cry from intermediate level. The same applies to the skier that claims to be an advance skier because they can make it down a black diamond at a small mountain. So how should a skier's level be determined? This is also important to know for many skiers so they are better able to get the right equipment for themselves. using these levels: beginner, intermediate, advance, expert & master (a skier that can ski just about anything that is skiable - "extreme skiers" also has the knowledge and experience to go along with it). Thanks, JQ Dancing on the edge I'm trying to figure out why you care so much what other people choose to call themselves... -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia "If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard." I don't! I was talking with a few friends the other day about skiing and the comment about skiing levels came up. So I wanted see what the group thought about the topic. So now you know... JQ Dancing on the edge |
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