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#11
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Matt wrote:
lonerider wrote: Stiffer boots tend to be more expensive, so I understand that you Well the good news here is that while this boot is soft it also fits pretty tightly. I have no slide inside the boot, and I definitely have to walk heel first. They do have a fair amount of flex to them though. I'm hoping these will last me through next season so I can then really evaluate what I want. I chose these because I had zero heel lift with them. Sounds like you were exactly right on you own boot fitting. Zero heel lift and no foot movement inside the boot are what people strive to achieve (it's actually a problem I've been having myself). From my experience, Salomon boots last at least 30 days of riding (about 2 seasons for most people) which is a little less than average and I think will suffice for you. In the future, if you find yourself having difficult carving tighter and harder toeside turns, you will need stiffer boots (that's a bit far in the future right now though so don't worry about it). So as far as the back leg thing. I am still pretty nervous about going fast because the few times it has happened I have either gotten into a nasty wobble, and eventually I hang an edge and go down hard. So I have taken to side sliding a good bit to avoid gaining to much speed. I realize this is a total crutch, but I don't how else to control my speed. I assume there are other better ways once I progress, but I want to make sure I am not getting a board that will prevent me from slowing down when I need to. If the answer is "yes but it will take a bit more effort" then I am down with that. I am more than willing to have to work harder to get the board to go where I want it to. I just need to have some way to effectively control how fast I go down the mountain. Otherwise, I do all my actual turning with my front leg. I hope this clarifies my concerns somewhat. Yes, I think you have the right idea. You definitely should be able to push out the tail to control you speed occasionally and you already know that it's a crutch, that's all I wanted to point out. Again, you don't have to buy a super-stiff board immediately, but if So you recomend the Phoenix. Do you think this is a good long term board that I can grow into? Is it just a good all around mountain board (I really don't care about tricks)? I know people were recommending the sasquach(sp?) earlier. Can you compare and contrast the two boards for me so I have a better idea about the pros/cons of the boards? Ahem... I'm going on thin ice here. Personally yes, I would recommend the Phoenix 163W if you didn't mind the $100 price increase between that and the Sasquatch. It is definitely a board you can grow into (I've been riding for a decade now and I think the Phoenix is one of the best boards I've ever ridden... of course I've only ridden about a dozen and a half boards total for more than a few hours). It will be much more forgiving for beginners than the Incline/Wide/Sasquatch lines (those are three versions of the same board for different footsizes) and will definiteley be more versatile off the groomed runs (once you get to that point) which is what Donek intended to it for. There is definitely something to be said about the crisp riding of the freeride line (Incline/Wide/Sasquatch) and where it is less forgiving is when you are riding with bad form, so you will probably improve a lot more quickly with them. It's hard for me to say exactly which you will prefer because you are much bigger than me (I'm 5'8" 150 lbs) and you are just starting out. That's the nice thing about Donek as I mentioned... next season you can just ask Donek to send you a Sasquatch and a Phoenix for you to try out and decide for yourself. So I have solomon boots, and I imagine solomon bindings go well with those, can you recommend some good bindings from flow, ride, and solomon, with the obvious caveat that I need to make sure they fit my boots? I'm just trying to figure out what I should be looking at. Yes, Salomon uses it's boots to model the fit of it's bindings, so they work very well together. I don't personally know the FLOW models very well, so I will let someone else make suggestions for that if you decide to go in that direction. The Ride EX and LX bindings are very nice and responsive (I believe both have aluminum baseplates) with the LS being the affordable model. The Salomon SP4 and SP5 shaped are excellent mid-range bindings, the SP2 and SP2 Shaped are still quite good, but cheaper. The reason why I suggested the Ride and Salomon is because I feel that even the lower end bindings are still based on a pretty solid design, just with less frills than the higher models (comparing them you can see the higher end stuff has slightly better materials, better straps, better rachets, etc... so you can choose you own price/performance ratio). The Burton missions are pretty decent, but the Custom and Freestyle are very mediocre in my opinion (although I haven't specifically looked at them in the last 2-3 years). Thanks again for all the help. This group is amazingly friendly. Heh... gotta do something now that the season is almost over. Plus everyone hear has a big opinion, and loves telling people about it --Arvin |
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#12
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Sorry to ambush the thread but this is all very interesting, I use Salomon
Dialogue boots and Saloman SP4 bindings on my Incline 160. I used to live about an hour from my local east coast slope so I used to get in around 20-30 days a season factoring in a 7 to 10 day out west trip. I got my boots in Whistler around 4 seasons ago. I moved from to the UK last year so I haven't been able to hit the slopes that much this year only 9 or so days in the Alps. This season I felt that I was struggling to get the board nicely up on its edge. I kept thinking "if only the ankle strp on the bindings was mounted higher up on the binding it would stop this disconnect between the boot and the board" ,partly I put alot of this down to not being able to get out riding as much as I am used to and the fact that the conditions were close to sheet ice. Do you think I have just finally flexed my boots one time too many? IS it the boots shell or the liner that is too soft now (or a bit of both)? Would it be worth tracking down a new liner for an old boot? Finally if I had to replace the boots now, are the current Salomon boots simlar enough so I can use my custom foot beds out of my old Dialogues in the new boots? Thanks in advnace. |
#13
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chiliblue wrote:
Sorry to ambush the thread but this is all very interesting, I use Salomon Dialogue boots and Saloman SP4 bindings on my Incline 160. I used to live about an hour from my local east coast slope so I used to get in around 20-30 days a season factoring in a 7 to 10 day out west trip. I got my boots in Whistler around 4 seasons ago. I moved from to the UK last year so I haven't been able to hit the slopes that much this year only 9 or so days in the Alps. Hey, you have a very similar setup to what I had a few years ago... I had 2001 Salomon Dialogues (orange/black) with SP4 Shaped bindings. This season I felt that I was struggling to get the board nicely up on its edge. I kept thinking "if only the ankle strp on the bindings was mounted higher up on the binding it would stop this disconnect between the boot and the board" ,partly I put alot of this down to not being able to get out riding as much as I am used to and the fact that the conditions were close to sheet ice. Do you think I have just finally flexed my boots one time too many? IS it the boots shell or the liner that is too soft now (or a bit of both)? Would it be worth tracking down a new liner for an old boot? What you describe I think is exactly what happens when a boot softens up too much. The ankle strap should really only be there to keep you boot attached to the binding, the power that allows you to get you toeside turn up on edge (unless you havea 3-strap binding) comes from the stiffness of the boot tongue. You should be able bend your knees and drive your shins into the front of the boot, the stiffness of the boot should keep it from flexing much farther then an angled 'L' or "/_" after that all the energy from your shins should tilt the boot over like so it '', then the bindings are attached to the boot snugly and that will transfer into the board. If your boots are worn out, when you drive you knees/shins forward, the boots just flex a lot and you don't get much energy transfer to the board via the bindings. Did that make sense? It is the boot shell that is now too soft if you are having toeside with your toeside. The Salomon liners also have a tendency to pack out (so the inside of the boot is 1/2 to a full size large)... which will lead heellift and cause you to tighten you laces a lot more and likely overtighten your ankle strap more in an effort to lockdown your ankle/heel. Finally if I had to replace the boots now, are the current Salomon boots simlar enough so I can use my custom foot beds out of my old Dialogues in the new boots? I think the Salomon boots are relatively similar in terms of length vs width... but you really should just bring your footbeds with you to a store, look at the boot, pull out the stock footbed, compare its profile with yours, and then finally just stick in your own footbed into the boot when trying it on. Since Salomon is a European brand I don't for see you having to order online for it. Hope that helps |
#14
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lonerider wrote: Ahem... I'm going on thin ice here. Personally yes, I would recommend the Phoenix 163W if you didn't mind the $100 price increase between that and the Sasquatch. It is definitely a board you can grow into (I've been riding for a decade now and I think the Phoenix is one of the best boards I've ever ridden... of course I've only ridden about a dozen and a half boards total for more than a few hours). It will be much more forgiving for beginners than the Incline/Wide/Sasquatch lines (those are three versions of the same board for different footsizes) and will definiteley be more versatile off the groomed runs (once you get to that point) which is what Donek intended to it for. There is definitely something to be said about the crisp riding of the freeride line (Incline/Wide/Sasquatch) and where it is less forgiving is when you are riding with bad form, so you will probably improve a lot more quickly with them. It's hard for me to say exactly which you will prefer because you are much bigger than me (I'm 5'8" 150 lbs) and you are just starting out. That's the nice thing about Donek as I mentioned... next season you can just ask Donek to send you a Sasquatch and a Phoenix for you to try out and decide for yourself. I realize that you are guessing a bit, but that is all good with me. Your guess is going to be much better than mine. If you think the Phoenix is a good solid freeride board that sounds good to me. I can always get a sasquatch later if I decide I need something that carves more cleanly in the future. I still have a couple more weeks this season so I might try to get a Phoenix before the end of the year. I guess I will have to call them and see if this will work. Yes, Salomon uses it's boots to model the fit of it's bindings, so they work very well together. I don't personally know the FLOW models very well, so I will let someone else make suggestions for that if you decide to go in that direction. The Ride EX and LX bindings are very nice and responsive (I believe both have aluminum baseplates) with the LS being the affordable model. The Salomon SP4 and SP5 shaped are excellent mid-range bindings, the SP2 and SP2 Shaped are still quite good, but cheaper. The reason why I suggested the Ride and Salomon is because I feel that even the lower end bindings are still based on a pretty solid design, just with less frills than the higher models (comparing them you can see the higher end stuff has slightly better materials, better straps, better rachets, etc... so you can choose you own price/performance ratio). The Burton missions are pretty decent, but the Custom and Freestyle are very mediocre in my opinion (although I haven't specifically looked at them in the last 2-3 years). I think you have convinced me to track down some solomon/ride bindings. Now I just need to find some small footprint good kneepads so I don't keep banging up my poor knees. Any advice in this area would be great also. --Matt |
#15
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Heh not just similar but exactly the same, orange and black. You were spot
on on the over tightening the laces too...I would be on my back tugging for all I am worth this year. Having 3 strap bindings also crossed my mind too...yay I can blame my weak carving this season to my boots. OK I think a new pair of boots are in order, I'll stick with Salomon as they have been very good but I might go upscale and try the Synapse or Malamute. The Malamute seems to be ultra stiff . Does anyone have any opinions on them ( I am going to get my first pair of hards and plates this year too) but I like a pretty stiff boot. "lonerider" wrote in message ups.com... chiliblue wrote: Sorry to ambush the thread but this is all very interesting, I use Salomon Dialogue boots and Saloman SP4 bindings on my Incline 160. I used to live about an hour from my local east coast slope so I used to get in around 20-30 days a season factoring in a 7 to 10 day out west trip. I got my boots in Whistler around 4 seasons ago. I moved from to the UK last year so I haven't been able to hit the slopes that much this year only 9 or so days in the Alps. Hey, you have a very similar setup to what I had a few years ago... I had 2001 Salomon Dialogues (orange/black) with SP4 Shaped bindings. This season I felt that I was struggling to get the board nicely up on its edge. I kept thinking "if only the ankle strp on the bindings was mounted higher up on the binding it would stop this disconnect between the boot and the board" ,partly I put alot of this down to not being able to get out riding as much as I am used to and the fact that the conditions were close to sheet ice. Do you think I have just finally flexed my boots one time too many? IS it the boots shell or the liner that is too soft now (or a bit of both)? Would it be worth tracking down a new liner for an old boot? What you describe I think is exactly what happens when a boot softens up too much. The ankle strap should really only be there to keep you boot attached to the binding, the power that allows you to get you toeside turn up on edge (unless you havea 3-strap binding) comes from the stiffness of the boot tongue. You should be able bend your knees and drive your shins into the front of the boot, the stiffness of the boot should keep it from flexing much farther then an angled 'L' or "/_" after that all the energy from your shins should tilt the boot over like so it '', then the bindings are attached to the boot snugly and that will transfer into the board. If your boots are worn out, when you drive you knees/shins forward, the boots just flex a lot and you don't get much energy transfer to the board via the bindings. Did that make sense? It is the boot shell that is now too soft if you are having toeside with your toeside. The Salomon liners also have a tendency to pack out (so the inside of the boot is 1/2 to a full size large)... which will lead heellift and cause you to tighten you laces a lot more and likely overtighten your ankle strap more in an effort to lockdown your ankle/heel. Finally if I had to replace the boots now, are the current Salomon boots simlar enough so I can use my custom foot beds out of my old Dialogues in the new boots? I think the Salomon boots are relatively similar in terms of length vs width... but you really should just bring your footbeds with you to a store, look at the boot, pull out the stock footbed, compare its profile with yours, and then finally just stick in your own footbed into the boot when trying it on. Since Salomon is a European brand I don't for see you having to order online for it. Hope that helps |
#16
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chiliblue wrote: OK I think a new pair of boots are in order, I'll stick with Salomon as they have been very good but I might go upscale and try the Synapse or Malamute. The Malamute seems to be ultra stiff . Does anyone have any opinions on them ( I am going to get my first pair of hards and plates this year too) but I like a pretty stiff boot. Definitely try them out. I tried upgrading as well, but I didn't really like the design of the 2003-2004 Synapse that much, but that was mainly a foot vs boot size/shape compatibility issues so your experience will be different (plus it's been 2 years). I haven't actually worn the Malamutes on the mountain myself so I can't comment except for the fact that I like the internal ankle-strap they have inside the boot. I know four people who ride with the Malamutes and love them, but they are all mainly hardbooters so I don't know how much you can draw from that except to say that yes.. they are stiff boots. I'm told the F24 is a nice boot, not quite as stiff, but much smaller profile which a lot of people like. I'm riding ThirtyTwo Forecasts right now. I like them because they are made for people with narrow feet (like me) and come with fully heat-moldable Intuition liners. The are only medium in stiffness and sometimes I wish they were a tad stiffer, but I guess that makes them very versatile for my own personal riding style. |
#17
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Matt wrote: I realize that you are guessing a bit, but that is all good with me. Your guess is going to be much better than mine. If you think the Phoenix is a good solid freeride board that sounds good to me. I can always get a sasquatch later if I decide I need something that carves more cleanly in the future. I still have a couple more weeks this season so I might try to get a Phoenix before the end of the year. I guess I will have to call them and see if this will work. Yes, my personal opinion is that the Phoenix is an excellent freeride board that carves nicely but is also very capable in trees and bumps, where as the Sasquatch is more of a freecarver stlye board that can be taken off-piste (will easily float in powder), but it is foremostly designed for carving up groomed runs and less for snaking between trees. Donek has done a very good job design both boards to be a lot of fun, but each has a distinctly different flavor to it. I think you have convinced me to track down some solomon/ride bindings. Now I just need to find some small footprint good kneepads so I don't keep banging up my poor knees. Any advice in this area would be great also. I'm actually doing my own search for knee pads as I've been using the same pair of Triple-8 Kelvar padded kneepads that have protected me very well for the past 8 years or so. I sprained my knee last year and stopped wearing them for a few month because I had a knee brace on (and I wasn't doing much park). Putting the pads back on recently has also make them feel a little bulky. Nevertheless, the Triple-8 softcap kelvar pads have protected me for many years and barely show any signs of wear at all (the softcap probably helps keep my pants from getting shredded as well). So all the stuff I'm about to mention are basically "hearsay and rumors" as I haven't actually used them myself, so I have no clue as to how they really are. I am considering going for pads from this company called ProDesigned that's been making top of the line pads for 20 years (though their website looks really amateurish at http://www.prodesigned.com/kneepads.htm).. Roving the longboard skateboard forums (where people regularly speed down asphalt roads at 40+ mph) I heard about these pads excellent in terms of protection and fit as they allow you to send in your knee/leg measurements for a "customized" fit. I haven't actually tried them myself yet and the pads are pretty expensive even though I'm going for the smaller, thinner 1/2" inline pads instead of the bulky 1" vert skating pads. For really light weight you might consider soft knee pads (I saw them at REI http://tinyurl.com/6cwrz, never tried them... but if you don't like REI allows for returns after usage, I also so knee gaskets at http://www.timeshipracing.com/safety.htm, which also carreid Scabs knee pads which were also recommended to me). I'm still debating... but should decide sometime next month when I start doing more downhill skateboarding. If you haven't figured it out yet... I'm actually kind of a wuss in terms of physical pain... after banging my tailbone one too many times down boardslides on rails, I also got a Crash pads padded shorts, last year I upgraded them to Sketetool padded shorts (www.skeletools.com) which I liked so much I go the padded jacket for when downhill skateboard. Something about speeding down a paved hill at 25+ mph on a skateboard with no straps makes me slightly fearful and the padded jacket with ribs/clavicle/shoulder/back protection goes a long way in easing my fears (I'm basically an human armored bug!). Maybe it's also because I play a lot of recreation ice hockey, where I'm used to being completely protected with pads - a good thing too because at 5'8" 150, I'm one of the smallest players in my league. |
#18
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Hi
I've had my Malamutes for a while now and absolutely love them. VERY supportive, but they have packed out a bit. The internal strap mitigates this a bit though and helps a lot with the dreaded heel lift... I'll definitely get another pair. I'm 6'1" and about 200lbs. FYI, I ride a Donek Wide 161 with Catek Freeride Pros - hoping to get a 165 for next year. Fantastic boards for carving on piste (and powder 'cos of the width). Not so nimble in the trees though, as Lonerider pointed out. To get the best out of the boots, you'll need a pretty stiff binding - I previously had a pair of Drake Matrix, but they felt really "soft" with the Malamutes/Donek combo. The bindings would flex without influencing the board at all. Great softboot setup for carving, but not so hot if you like the park... Cheers Andy "chiliblue" wrote in message ... Heh not just similar but exactly the same, orange and black. You were spot on on the over tightening the laces too...I would be on my back tugging for all I am worth this year. Having 3 strap bindings also crossed my mind too...yay I can blame my weak carving this season to my boots. OK I think a new pair of boots are in order, I'll stick with Salomon as they have been very good but I might go upscale and try the Synapse or Malamute. The Malamute seems to be ultra stiff . Does anyone have any opinions on them ( I am going to get my first pair of hards and plates this year too) but I like a pretty stiff boot. "lonerider" wrote in message ups.com... chiliblue wrote: Sorry to ambush the thread but this is all very interesting, I use Salomon Dialogue boots and Saloman SP4 bindings on my Incline 160. I used to live about an hour from my local east coast slope so I used to get in around 20-30 days a season factoring in a 7 to 10 day out west trip. I got my boots in Whistler around 4 seasons ago. I moved from to the UK last year so I haven't been able to hit the slopes that much this year only 9 or so days in the Alps. Hey, you have a very similar setup to what I had a few years ago... I had 2001 Salomon Dialogues (orange/black) with SP4 Shaped bindings. This season I felt that I was struggling to get the board nicely up on its edge. I kept thinking "if only the ankle strp on the bindings was mounted higher up on the binding it would stop this disconnect between the boot and the board" ,partly I put alot of this down to not being able to get out riding as much as I am used to and the fact that the conditions were close to sheet ice. Do you think I have just finally flexed my boots one time too many? IS it the boots shell or the liner that is too soft now (or a bit of both)? Would it be worth tracking down a new liner for an old boot? What you describe I think is exactly what happens when a boot softens up too much. The ankle strap should really only be there to keep you boot attached to the binding, the power that allows you to get you toeside turn up on edge (unless you havea 3-strap binding) comes from the stiffness of the boot tongue. You should be able bend your knees and drive your shins into the front of the boot, the stiffness of the boot should keep it from flexing much farther then an angled 'L' or "/_" after that all the energy from your shins should tilt the boot over like so it '', then the bindings are attached to the boot snugly and that will transfer into the board. If your boots are worn out, when you drive you knees/shins forward, the boots just flex a lot and you don't get much energy transfer to the board via the bindings. Did that make sense? It is the boot shell that is now too soft if you are having toeside with your toeside. The Salomon liners also have a tendency to pack out (so the inside of the boot is 1/2 to a full size large)... which will lead heellift and cause you to tighten you laces a lot more and likely overtighten your ankle strap more in an effort to lockdown your ankle/heel. Finally if I had to replace the boots now, are the current Salomon boots simlar enough so I can use my custom foot beds out of my old Dialogues in the new boots? I think the Salomon boots are relatively similar in terms of length vs width... but you really should just bring your footbeds with you to a store, look at the boot, pull out the stock footbed, compare its profile with yours, and then finally just stick in your own footbed into the boot when trying it on. Since Salomon is a European brand I don't for see you having to order online for it. Hope that helps |
#19
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Andy Sandford wrote:
I've had my Malamutes for a while now and absolutely love them. VERY supportive, but they have packed out a bit. The internal strap mitigates this a bit though and helps a lot with the dreaded heel lift. Heat mold the liners. I finally tried it and that made my heel very happy. Dean |
#20
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lonerider wrote: I'm actually doing my own search for knee pads as I've been using the same pair of Triple-8 Kelvar padded kneepads that have protected me very well for the past 8 years or so. I sprained my knee last year and stopped wearing them for a few month because I had a knee brace on (and I wasn't doing much park). Putting the pads back on recently has also make them feel a little bulky. Nevertheless, the Triple-8 softcap kelvar pads have protected me for many years and barely show any signs of wear at all (the softcap probably helps keep my pants from getting shredded as well). So all the stuff I'm about to mention are basically "hearsay and rumors" as I haven't actually used them myself, so I have no clue as to how they really are. I am considering going for pads from this company called ProDesigned that's been making top of the line pads for 20 years (though their website looks really amateurish at http://www.prodesigned.com/kneepads.htm).. Roving the longboard skateboard forums (where people regularly speed down asphalt roads at 40+ mph) I heard about these pads excellent in terms of protection and fit as they allow you to send in your knee/leg measurements for a "customized" fit. I haven't actually tried them myself yet and the pads are pretty expensive even though I'm going for the smaller, thinner 1/2" inline pads instead of the bulky 1" vert skating pads. For really light weight you might consider soft knee pads (I saw them at REI http://tinyurl.com/6cwrz, never tried them... but if you don't like REI allows for returns after usage, I also so knee gaskets at http://www.timeshipracing.com/safety.htm, which also carreid Scabs knee pads which were also recommended to me). I'm still debating... but should decide sometime next month when I start doing more downhill skateboarding. If you haven't figured it out yet... I'm actually kind of a wuss in terms of physical pain... after banging my tailbone one too many times down boardslides on rails, I also got a Crash pads padded shorts, last year I upgraded them to Sketetool padded shorts (www.skeletools.com) which I liked so much I go the padded jacket for when downhill skateboard. Something about speeding down a paved hill at 25+ mph on a skateboard with no straps makes me slightly fearful and the padded jacket with ribs/clavicle/shoulder/back protection goes a long way in easing my fears (I'm basically an human armored bug!). Maybe it's also because I play a lot of recreation ice hockey, where I'm used to being completely protected with pads - a good thing too because at 5'8" 150, I'm one of the smallest players in my league. Hmm. I am already targeting the skeltools pants, and was thinking about getting the knee pads from them also. Now I have more choices to consider!!! ARG!! I"ll figure something out before I go back on the snow in a couple weeks. --Matt |
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