Explanation of "Levels"

On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 16:43:06 GMT, "Armin"
wrote:

Funny, I know numerous people who have never taken a single lesson who are
*expert* skiers.

You know, Armin, some who post here actually believe that you should
take a lesson from a professional instructor schmuck every time you
jump on a new pair (type) of skis.

-Astro

Amin,
Like your advice




On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 16:43:06 GMT, "Armin"
wrote:

foot2foot wrote:
"Armin" wrote in message
om...
Actually, there are just 2 'levels' of skiers:
1) those that catagorize skiers into levels
2) those that don't
The first type spends all their time analyzing and catagorizing, the
second type just goes out and has fun.

;-)

Armin

Hmm, so, it's fun to jump into a pair of skis and boots and get
right out on the slopes and end up breaking your leg because you
don't have a *clue* how to turn them?

Except for the "breaking your leg" part it's exactly how I, and most of my
cohorts, learned how to ski. And we had a *lot* of fun, right from the first
run.

Or, it's fun to be locked into a basic, incapable level of skiing
because nobody ever showed you about rotation and counter
rotation? Or it's fun to fall now and then and never understand
why, because nobody ever pointed out to you that you're
getting caught up on the inside ski? Nobody ever explained
crossover and weight distribution to you.

Funny, I know numerous people who have never taken a single lesson who are
*expert* skiers. Must be magic, eh?

I'm in it to help people with their skiing. I'm in it to help them
to have *more* fun than their having now.

And that's very nice of you, honestly... but you need to get a sense of
humour, learn to be a little less, um.... verbose, and remember that most
things are better in moderation (including ski instruction).

Sure, just go out and have fun.

Thanks for giving me permission for doing what I have been doing for 44
years. I now feel so fulfilled and validated. ;-)
Hey, F2F, here is some advice for you: Don't forget to smile and have fun
when you hit the slopes.

Cheers,
Armin




http://www.2skierz.com

"Armin" wrote in message

Thanks for giving me permission for doing what I have been doing for 44
years. I now feel so fulfilled and validated. ;-)
Hey, F2F, here is some advice for you: Don't forget to smile and have fun
when you hit the slopes.

Cheers,
Armin



I take it then, you've never taken a lesson yourself? Then in
fact, you don't *know* if it would help you or not.

Of course, you'd be rolling the dice, as you might get some
one who won't be much help, but then again you might not.
What about one of these clinics? You don't think they could
possibly benefit you? Like, a clinic with the Des Lauriers,
or the Mahres, couldn't possibly be of any benefit to you?

As far as the beginner, I can take more than half of any of the
people who start skiing and have them skiing capably in two
hours. That is *not* going to happen if they just "go out and
have fun" on their own. The people who have taken the lesson
(at least from me) will shred the people who try to learn on
their own by trial and error in the same amount of time.

The other half of the new skiers that I will not be able to get
skiing that fast would take *forever* to learn just on their
own by trial and error.

"Armin" wrote in message
om...
"foot2foot" wrote in message
...
"Chris" wrote in message
...
Well I'm getting back into skiing, I stopped back in about 1993, after
having been doing it for about 10 years. Wow! What a suprise! All the
skis
are shaped now, the bidings are more reliable, and there are
snowboarders
everywhere.

Anyway, back in the day I was aware of 3 types of skiiers. Type 1-3.
Now,
however, I hear everybody saying 'level' or 'class' then a number
1-10.
How
does this break down? (aka what's a level 1, 2, 3, 4, etc...)

I tried some shaped skis last year, and I must say, a pair of 167s
shaped
is
much different than my old 210 straight sticks! I kinda miss my old
sticks.
But I picked up a pair of Rossi cobra sx's to try this year...not the
Volkols I wanted, but the price was good.

Anyway how 'bout it with the level 1 2 3 4..?

There are inherent problems with the "levels thing". The biggest
one is, the biggest part of the levels list is taken up by what will
(hopefully) happen in the first three or four days of the student's
skiing life. There is a *huge* gap between beginner/novice, and
capable parallel skier according to this list, as in some cases there
is also a gap in many typical instruction progressions. The other
problem is that it gives no indication of how the student does
what he or she does, or why they do or don't ski as they wish
they could.

There are but a few elements of the mechanics of skiing, and a
better way to approach things is for the student or instructor to
evaluate which of those elements the student has or does not
have command of.

If the student "owns" at least to some extent, body position,
crossover, weight distribution, angulation, steering, rotation and
counter rotation, flexion and extension, and perhaps another
item or two that you could name, that student is an advanced
skier, ready to enter the realm of expert skiing.

Learning these elements and using them is not a difficult thing.
It's in the blending of them that an expert is set apart from an
intermediate skier.

Actually, there are just 2 'levels' of skiers:
1) those that catagorize skiers into levels
2) those that don't

That's not quite right. There are two categories of skiers. Those you can
place in one of the two categories, and those you can't.

On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 22:15:01 -0700, "Richard Henry"
wrote:

There are two categories of skiers. Those you can
place in one of the two categories, and those you can't.

I thought the two categories are "have", and "have not".

Regardless, after having read and seen the powder exploits of klaus,
lee, knisely, etc., I'm beginning to think that, in reality, I'm a
"have not".

-Astro

---
maximum exposure f/2.8
http://www.xmission.com/~hound/astro/03-04/index.htm
---

foot2foot wrote:

"Armin" wrote in message

Thanks for giving me permission for doing what I have been doing for 44
years. I now feel so fulfilled and validated. ;-)
Hey, F2F, here is some advice for you: Don't forget to smile and have fun
when you hit the slopes.

I take it then, you've never taken a lesson yourself? Then in
fact, you don't *know* if it would help you or not.

I took a lesson. Bad luck that the instructor was a total dickhead and
I got my money back. Details provided if interested, but the executive
summary is all you really need. I wasn't a beginner. Many doctors
can't heal and many teachers can't teach. What happens if a beginner who
doesn't know any better gets a dickhead?

Of course, you'd be rolling the dice, as you might get some
one who won't be much help, but then again you might not.
What about one of these clinics? You don't think they could
possibly benefit you? Like, a clinic with the Des Lauriers,
or the Mahres, couldn't possibly be of any benefit to you?

As far as the beginner, I can take more than half of any of the
people who start skiing and have them skiing capably in two
hours. That is *not* going to happen if they just "go out and
have fun" on their own. The people who have taken the lesson
(at least from me) will shred the people who try to learn on
their own by trial and error in the same amount of time.

The other half of the new skiers that I will not be able to get
skiing that fast would take *forever* to learn just on their
own by trial and error.

What about people who read books before strapping on the skis so they
have some vague idea about what they ought to be trying to do?

--
Cheers,
Bev
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Advertising is the rattling of a stick inside a swill bucket."
-- George Orwell

In message , AstroPax
writes

I thought the two categories are "have", and "have not".

Regardless, after having read and seen the powder exploits of klaus,
lee, knisely, etc., I'm beginning to think that, in reality, I'm a
"have not".

So are you less happy, less secure or less lovable for not being the
best skier in the parish?
And how good are their wildlife pictures?

And at how many human pursuits are all of you inconsiderable?

Stop worrying about it, take Armin's advice and just enjoy yourself.

--
Sue ];(

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:22:29 -0600, Bob Lee wrote:

Or is it the Freedom of the Heels? You getting ready to go AT in the
bc?

I'm having a problem...a conflict...deciding between the Freerides or
the Diamir's, and it's causing a lot of stress, and loss of sleep.

Maybe someone can help me decide.

Regardless, the fact of the matter is simple; photo-ops are
substantially better OB.

-Astro

---
maximum exposure f/2.8
http://www.xmission.com/~hound/astro/03-04/index.htm
---

Bev - a couple of comments -
--
Ed C.
(remove eight caps to reply)


"The Real Bev" wrote in message
...

What happens if a beginner who
doesn't know any better gets a dickhead?

It happens more often than anyone ever admits, and it is a damn shame. That
beginner would not return. Ski areas must hire instructors, but are not
willing to pay enough to draw or hire enough of those who can teach a
quality lesson.

What about people who read books before strapping on the skis so they
have some vague idea about what they ought to be trying to do?

If they have read the same concepts that the instructor is teaching, then
great. However, most printed How-To's are outdated very quickly. And this
brings up another question - Did these people who read books before
strapping on their skiis actually read AND FOLLOW the first chapter about
pre-season conditioning?

Ed C.

I have taken ski lessons, I have even *taught* ski lessons, and I've sent
family members off to take ski lessons (at my expense) ... so I'm not
anti-ski-lessons.

BUT: Skiing is, fundamentally, a recreational activity, not a field of
study! The purpose is to have fun, not to "own" extension, or flexion, or to
know what the "seven elements" of skiing are.

Some people may enjoy intellectual analysis of skiing for its own sake (some
people enjoy intellectual analysis of ant behavior for its own sake), but:
(i) most people don't (or you'd be able to sell tickets for physics lectures
for $53 a pop) and (ii) it's is simply not the case that being interested
in, or even capable of, intellectual analysis is necessary to make you
either have fun skiing, or even ski well.