Potter Race Pics

"Jeff Potter" wrote in message
.. .
George Cleveland wrote:


OK people: we gotta get me some light, bright blue knicker socks! They're
the missing piece. I have ONE such sock. Fox River used to make a fine,
tight weave pair. I have a pair of coarser navy ones but I hesitate to
get into them fearing damage and fashion sadness. Light, bright blue.
C'mon they gotta be out there. I'll pay!!! Or WHITE ONES. Yeah, that
would do it. Those TAN ones have to go. They're not bad, but...

I'd also like to find a pair. My old light gray ones are just too dull.

How about a pair of red, snowflake knee sox?

Tell me where I can buy a pair.

Greg Fangel

Gene Goldenfeld wrote in message ...

Not even #52? (photo 5)? Compare the posture with #18 in photo 6, #55
in 18 or #25 in 22. In general, it's not easy because probably most
didn't have good enough technique to be sure what they were doing.

Okay, *some* skiers do look very much like they´re
skating:-)

But IMHO it´s as much "not cricket" to start pointing
fingers at individual skiers based on photographic
evidence as it was for those skiers to skate (assuming
they weren´t just "herringboning in an awkward fashion").

But since skating in a classic race *is* a serious issue -
even in such tradition-rich events as the Vasaloppet where
each year a a few dozen skiers get DQed - it would seem
proper to get the organizers to post officials at least
in the more obvious spots. They could issue a warning (2
or 3 "red cards" equalling a DQ) or, in case of blatant
infringement, a DQ with immediate effect.


Anders

I now understand why Potter wears retro ski clothing. That is one
stylin outfit Jeff. I'm not joking... That is pretty cool.

Jay Tegeder
"On the podium if the right people don't show up!" JT

(32 degrees) wrote in message . com...
Here he is... in his knicker glory... Jeff Potter !
http://www.nordicskiracer.com/

JK

Gene Goldenfeld wrote:

John Galt wrote:

Not to say anyone did or did not skate during the race, because I wasn't
there but herringboning up a hill easily can be confused as skating at
cursory glance of still photos. So I guess, IMHO, you couldn't come close
to DQ'ing anyone just from the photos.

Not even #52? (photo 5)? Compare the posture with #18 in photo 6, #55
in 18 or #25 in 22. In general, it's not easy because probably most
didn't have good enough technique to be sure what they were doing.

I'm personally against DQing people. Especially for one "gotcha." Our local ski
culture is casual, friendly. I think we can get to a situation where when
someone misses the wax they will self-DQ, take off their bib and then skate the
rest of the way. We don't need steenking police on our course. So I hope,
anyway.

A LOT of the skiers in those pics have FINE herringbone technique and at least
one displays VERY NICE diagonal skate.

I'm impressed with how nice and dynamic the herringboners look even further
back in the field (pics go from front to back basically, I think).

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of do-it-yourself culture ... bikes, skis, boats & more! ...
... offering Vordenberg's XC ski tales in "Momentum"! ...
... "The Recumbent Bicycle": the only book about these bikes! ...
... Rudloe's "Potluck": true-life story of workingclass smuggling! ...
... with radical novels coming up via LiteraryRevolution.com! ...
... music! ... articles! ... travel forums! ... WOW! 800-763-6923

Jay Tegeder wrote:

I now understand why Potter wears retro ski clothing. That is one
stylin outfit Jeff. I'm not joking... That is pretty cool.

Thanks.

I think the other guy's cosmic paintsplash outfit is pretty neat.

A downside to my outfit is that it's a negative strategy activator. I mean that when I pass someone it gets them
all motivated again. This is not what we want.

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of do-it-yourself culture ... bikes, skis, boats & more! ...
... offering Vordenberg's XC ski tales in "Momentum"! ...
... "The Recumbent Bicycle": the only book about these bikes! ...
... Rudloe's "Potluck": true-life story of workingclass smuggling! ...
... with radical novels coming up via LiteraryRevolution.com! ...
... music! ... articles! ... travel forums! ... WOW! 800-763-6923

"Anders Lustig" wrote in message
om...
Gene Goldenfeld wrote in message
...

But since skating in a classic race *is* a serious issue -
even in such tradition-rich events as the Vasaloppet where
each year a a few dozen skiers get DQed - it would seem
proper to get the organizers to post officials at least
in the more obvious spots. They could issue a warning (2
or 3 "red cards" equalling a DQ) or, in case of blatant
infringement, a DQ with immediate effect.

I agree with Anders that there is no way I would call anybody for skating
based on still photograph. Since skating involves a moving ski, you need a
moving photo to see the movement. Also the movement has to be taken in
context. The skier could just be moving out of the track, changing lanes or
avoiding an obstacle.

On the other hand, if organizers are going to host a classic race they
should have an obligation to ensure the rules are enforced to ensure a fair
competition for all skiers.

Officials should be properly trained so that they know how to detect
currently accepted classic techniques and determine whether there are
infractions.

Two trained officials should be posted at locations where technique
violations are likely to occur. They should independently decide whether
there is a violation so there are two independent witnesses to avoid "his
word against my word" arguments.

A race jury should be appointed before the race that will make final
decisions on any disqualifications, warnings or penalties. Usually a jury
would consist of a senior official from the race committee and two other
experienced independent people. For FIS sanctioned races the jury
composition is specified.

The race jury should meet before the competition to decide what evidence
will be accepted. Two trained officials is obvious, but what about a
complaint from another skier or several other skiers, coaches or spectators?

The jury should meet after the race to review any complaints from officials
or other people. In order to do this, officials on the course must have a
method of communicating with the jury.

This does not have to be a very formal procedure for informal races, but
having some system in place goes a long way to ensuring a fair race so that
all participants can feel they have not been cheated.

Scott

A downside to my outfit is that it's a negative strategy activator. I
mean that when I pass
someone it gets them all motivated again. This is not what we want.

Although I bet the expressions on peoples faces as you go by them is
pretty interesting.....

e.

Especially not #52. If you look, he appears to have his left pole and
right ski on the snow - note shadow under right pole tip.

I looked at the whole deck, and don't see anyone I'd willing accuse of
skating. Bad form, maybe, but anyway, very few people are going to
skate in a classic race with a camera in their face.

It's easy to forget for a stroke, and suddenly find you just landed a V1
instead of a herringbone, especially if you are tired. The question is
- what do you do next? Do you continue to V1, or do you regroup and HB
the rest of the way? Same holds true in corners on the track - if you
step turn the corners like your coach taught you, are you pushing on the
outside foot? Of course you are! Do you use more than 3 steps?
Probably not. It's the people that repeatedly skate step, or take
advantage of every opportunity to agressively change lanes that are
questionable - muchless the clown that just doesn't plan on getting caught.


Marsh


Gene Goldenfeld wrote:

John Galt wrote:

Not to say anyone did or did not skate during the race, because I wasn't
there but herringboning up a hill easily can be confused as skating at
cursory glance of still photos. So I guess, IMHO, you couldn't come close
to DQ'ing anyone just from the photos.


Not even #52? (photo 5)? Compare the posture with #18 in photo 6, #55
in 18 or #25 in 22. In general, it's not easy because probably most
didn't have good enough technique to be sure what they were doing.

A downside to my outfit is that it's a negative strategy activator. I mean
that when I pass someone it gets them
all motivated again. This is not what we want.

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of do-it-yourself culture ... bikes, skis, boats & more! ...
... offering Vordenberg's XC ski tales in "Momentum"! ...
... "The Recumbent Bicycle": the only book about these bikes! ...
... Rudloe's "Potluck": true-life story of workingclass smuggling! ...
... with radical novels coming up via LiteraryRevolution.com! ...
... music! ... articles! ... travel forums! ... WOW! 800-763-6923


Jeff, I'm reminded of my early days of skiing (started in 1970). Those
Woolrich knickers seemed so expensive, so I went to Goodwill and bought some
wool slacks. I cut them to the right length, put in a hem and elastic, and
I had knickers. They were a bit baggy, but they looked pretty good. A lot
of store-bought knickers were baggy in those days. Sleek fashion had not
hit the trails yet. And then there were the wooden skis, but that is
another thread.


--
Leland Yee
Having fun (way) back in the pack.

"Leland Yee" wrote
Jeff, I'm reminded of my early days of skiing (started in 1970). Those
Woolrich knickers seemed so expensive, so I went to Goodwill and bought
some
wool slacks. I cut them to the right length, put in a hem and elastic,
and
I had knickers. They were a bit baggy, but they looked pretty good. A
lot
of store-bought knickers were baggy in those days. Sleek fashion had not
hit the trails yet. And then there were the wooden skis, but that is
another thread.

Same here - same era too. Except I found some US Navy wool slacks at
Goodwill - not the ones with the large buttoned flap over the abdomen, but
some with a regular fly and belt loops. They were, of course, navy blue
(almost black) and fit fairly snuggly - didn't look baggy - and were a good
usable weight and weave. I hemmed them with a closure flap made from some
of the scrap material I cut off - with velcro no less. They actually had a
fairly store-bought finish to them (if you didn't look closely at the
sewing). I used them for many years and they were great. I don't have the
pants (they wouldn't fit anyway; I've gained, er, at least an inch since
then), but have several pair of socks, I recently discovered. I'm going to
search out a nice pair of more-or-less racing style knickers like Jeff's.

Griss