More on the Wedge and Parallel Turns, 3

Continuing on from posts one and two of
More on the Wedge and Parallel Turns...

Let's say that you, a *beginner*, can do both the wedge and
parallel stance. You have your centerline and your line to
infinity touching each other, (your body is mostly upright, in
home position, right in the middle of the skis, whichever stance
you are in. You have an inkling about crossover, but
understand that at this point you don't need to worry about it,
just keep your shoulders square to the skis, and your body
centered between them, Whichever stance you are in.

It's time to head straight down an easy slope in parallel stance,
then, spread the tails of your skis out into a wedge, and bring
your knees closer together as you wish to bring the skis up on
edge and make them bite. Push with the big toe ball of each
foot. Go into wedge stance like this to control speed, then
go into parallel to speed up again. Stay in home position,
hands *always* forward, and still.

Then alternate between parallel and wedge, back and forth,
for several runs down the hill. This is called a wedge
changeup.

What is very likely to happen at this point is that you might just
start to turn to one side or the other when you go into the
wedge from the parallel stance. This is because you have more
weight on the opposite ski to the direction you are turning.
Keep after it until you can do wedge changeups in a straight
line, and can really control your speed using the wedge.
This won't work on steeper stuff, you have to actually turn
there, but you will be shortly.

After you can do these simple things, there is but one thing
more you need to do to be actually skiing.

Head down an easy slope, or across one if you need to,
alternately picking up the tail of each ski, while leaving the tip
of that ski on the snow. Stay in home position, hands forward.
Keep after this for a while, until you get at least fairly good at it.
Remember that above all else, the most important thing is that
your hands are forward, and still.

After you have these few drills down, at least fairly well, start
learning to turn. Just take the whole thing sideways. Instead of
straight down the hill, head across the hill in parallel, then do a
changeup into the wedge, make the edges bite, then put all the
weight on the outside ski, and pick up the tail of the inside ski
(just a teensy) while leaving the tip of that inside ski on the snow.
Put that inside ski next to the outside ski, and your back in
parallel stance for some more traversing across the hill

You know what? You'll be turning. In fact, you'll be making a
*parallel* turn, although a rough one.

That simply, that quickly.

In my last post in re this subject I'll try to explain why the above,
Magic Turns, is such an effective route to what amounts to a
direct to parallel system, even though the wedge is what it all
builds upon. Which incidently, is what this whole series of
posts was really about in the first place.

foot2foot wrote:


Wow, you couldn't be more wrong. Your technique and understanding of basics
is severely lacking.


--
I'm Gumby dammit!

"Gumby" wrote in message
...
foot2foot wrote:


Wow, you couldn't be more wrong. Your technique and understanding of
basics
is severely lacking.

Well Gumby, thousands of first time skiers who learned a
parallel turn in two hours say differently. As well as do the
resorts who are taking up various iterations of this very same
system because they're tired of 80 percent of the people
who take a ski lesson never coming back to the mountain.

That is, those that don't use short skis, which in the end will
need to teach people to ski on long skis anyway.

Did you have anything more...specific?

foot2foot wrote:
"Gumby" wrote in message
...
foot2foot wrote:


Wow, you couldn't be more wrong. Your technique and understanding of
basics is severely lacking.

Well Gumby, thousands of first time skiers who learned a
parallel turn in two hours say differently. As well as do the
resorts who are taking up various iterations of this very same
system because they're tired of 80 percent of the people
who take a ski lesson never coming back to the mountain.

That is, those that don't use short skis, which in the end will
need to teach people to ski on long skis anyway.

Did you have anything more...specific?

Actually, I was going to ask you the same question? Exactly which "thousands
of 1st time skiers"? I realize you can't list them all here but perhaps
provide a verified source?

--
I'm Gumby dammit!

"Gumby" wrote in message news:eJgxd.6920

Actually, I was going to ask you the same question? Exactly which
"thousands
of 1st time skiers"?
I realize you can't list them all here but perhaps
provide a verified source?

This, from "Gumby"? (I couldn't help that, sorry)

No, stop with the b.s. games and provide me with some legitimate
criticisms that prove to me you at least know what you're talking
about. If not, I'm done with you.

I must admit, I like the persona. Flexible people.

"foot2foot" wrote in message
...

"Gumby" wrote in message news:eJgxd.6920

Actually, I was going to ask you the same question? Exactly which
"thousands
of 1st time skiers"?
I realize you can't list them all here but perhaps
provide a verified source?

This, from "Gumby"? (I couldn't help that, sorry)

No, stop with the b.s. games and provide me with some legitimate
criticisms that prove to me you at least know what you're talking
about. If not, I'm done with you.

I must admit, I like the persona. Flexible people.

You're the one who brought up the "...thousands of people...". Here's a
legitimate criticism. We don't believe your count.

However, this is RSA, so instead of actually providing any facts or
references to support your statement, you are free instead to use SA-logic,
as in "Go google yourself".

"Richard Henry" wrote in message
news:8dixd.2719$ry.2628@fed1read01...

"foot2foot" wrote in message
...

"Gumby" wrote in message news:eJgxd.6920

Actually, I was going to ask you the same question? Exactly which
"thousands
of 1st time skiers"?
I realize you can't list them all here but perhaps
provide a verified source?

This, from "Gumby"? (I couldn't help that, sorry)

No, stop with the b.s. games and provide me with some legitimate
criticisms that prove to me you at least know what you're talking
about. If not, I'm done with you.

I must admit, I like the persona. Flexible people.

You're the one who brought up the "...thousands of people...". Here's a
legitimate criticism. We don't believe your count.

However, this is RSA, so instead of actually providing any facts or
references to support your statement, you are free instead to use
SA-logic,
as in "Go google yourself".

I'm curious as to who "we" is. You and Gumby?

Actually Richard, I could have easily done this myself. Say,
ten clients a class, two classes a day, seven days a week,
that's 140 a week. It would take seven weeks to hit but one
thousand. Almost.150 days teaching a year in a good year.
20 plus weeks.

Now, remember what they do to beginning instructors. They
might just give you a class with thirty newbies. Especially if
you don't whine. Why would you? You have the magic turns
system. 20 beginners today? SURE!!!!

Then, remember, nobody wants to teach beginners. Most
instructors are "too good" for that. Then, supposing you work
for a night skiing resort. That would be *three* classes a day,
maybe 4. Supposing you teach for a program? Lots of
numbers. Lots of them.

*Then*....remember what you can do if you have a bunny
berm. You can take an entire Boy Scout Troop, or the
entire sixth grade class of an elementary school in one group.
And you can go have coffee while they learn. Which they will.

One person can do it all. Tens of students, maybe even
hundreds. Add to that, I've been teaching since maybe 1996
or 1997. I could have *easily* done it myself, but I'm not
alone.

Forget about me and add up all the people that have
learned from the major resorts that use magic turns.

Several NW resorts are using various beginner progressions
that involve initiating with a wedge and picking up the tail of
the inside ski while leaving the tip on the snow. No years in
the wedge, basically direct to parallel. This is at least the fourth
year of it.

I did not invent the Magic Turns terminology.

Thousands is not a stretch at all. Millions? Maybe not yet, but
it won't take long. Just like Mc Donalds. Over ? billion served.

However, this isn't really the intent of the thread, do you have
some technical comments on the progression itself? That's
what I was asking for out of Gumby, but I know (it?) can't
provide such. It said that technique and understanding of
basics were lacking, but it can't back up that assertion
because it doesn't know anything, it's just flexing it's soft
tissue.

Richard and Scott, I'm not trying to get into the middle of the
battle going on, I just couldn't resist the comment. Perhaps I
should have resisted the temptation. In fact, I don't really
read the related threads. But I can't help it lately, every
technical thread I start somehow gets tied up in the
situation.

We've got a few never-befores going with us to Summit County next week.
.. and I sure hope they get an instructor with some game. It would
suck for them get crappy lessons with poor technique and end up hating
it.

Anyone with first-hand experience re the ski school at Breck? Specific
people or classes?

"foot2foot" wrote in message
...

"Richard Henry" wrote in message
news:8dixd.2719$ry.2628@fed1read01...

"foot2foot" wrote in message
...

"Gumby" wrote in message news:eJgxd.6920

Actually, I was going to ask you the same question? Exactly which
"thousands
of 1st time skiers"?
I realize you can't list them all here but perhaps
provide a verified source?

This, from "Gumby"? (I couldn't help that, sorry)

No, stop with the b.s. games and provide me with some legitimate
criticisms that prove to me you at least know what you're talking
about. If not, I'm done with you.

I must admit, I like the persona. Flexible people.

You're the one who brought up the "...thousands of people...". Here's a
legitimate criticism. We don't believe your count.

However, this is RSA, so instead of actually providing any facts or
references to support your statement, you are free instead to use
SA-logic,
as in "Go google yourself".

I'm curious as to who "we" is. You and Gumby?

I was using the editorial "we". Although there have been others who have
posted sarcastic doubts about your program, in case you haven't noticed.

billions and billions served

However, this isn't really the intent of the thread, do you have
some technical comments on the progression itself? That's
what I was asking for out of Gumby, but I know (it?) can't
provide such. It said that technique and understanding of
basics were lacking, but it can't back up that assertion
because it doesn't know anything, it's just flexing it's soft
tissue.

I first took ski lessons at Jay Peak in the 60's, when Walter Foeger's
NaturTeknik promised to teach anyone to to ski parallel in a week (5 days of
two lessons a day). Snowplows, wedges, and stem turns were skipped over,
even banned until the student mastered low-speed parallel turns. My brother
and I progressed from hopping around our poles stuck in the snow to making
little hop-parallel turns in the "slope" below the t-bar base building.
There was even a version of the beginner's berm whee the snow piled up from
sliding off the roof of the base office building. After we got comfortable
with the lifts (Poma and T-Bar at first, then a double chair up the big
mountain the next year) we gave up lessons as a waste of our time and just
went out on the moutain with our unstylish friends to have fun. I didn't
think about "proper" style again until about 10 years later, when my life
situation sent em to California and gave me the time and the income to buy
better equipment, so I started working on parallel and anti-parallel turns,
jumps, 360's, powder (I had exactly one deep powder day in my youth in
Vermont and I didn't really know what to do with it), steeps, bumps, etc.


Richard and Scott, I'm not trying to get into the middle of the
battle going on, I just couldn't resist the comment. Perhaps I
should have resisted the temptation. In fact, I don't really
read the related threads. But I can't help it lately, every
technical thread I start somehow gets tied up in the
situation.

I don't see what your ski teaching has to do with Scott. As far as I am
concerned, Scott is not part of my ski life - unless he re-isues the $1000
downhill challenge!

foot2foot wrote:
"Richard Henry" wrote in message
news:8dixd.2719$ry.2628@fed1read01...

"foot2foot" wrote in message
...

"Gumby" wrote in message
news:eJgxd.6920

Actually, I was going to ask you the same question? Exactly
which
"thousands
of 1st time skiers"?
I realize you can't list them all here but perhaps
provide a verified source?

This, from "Gumby"? (I couldn't help that, sorry)

No, stop with the b.s. games and provide me with some legitimate
criticisms that prove to me you at least know what you're talking
about. If not, I'm done with you.

I must admit, I like the persona. Flexible people.

You're the one who brought up the "...thousands of people...".
Here's a
legitimate criticism. We don't believe your count.

However, this is RSA, so instead of actually providing any facts or
references to support your statement, you are free instead to use
SA-logic,
as in "Go google yourself".

I'm curious as to who "we" is. You and Gumby?

Actually Richard, I could have easily done this myself. Say,
ten clients a class, two classes a day, seven days a week,
that's 140 a week. It would take seven weeks to hit but one
thousand. Almost.150 days teaching a year in a good year.
20 plus weeks.

The math maybe good but the numbers are increditable. Don't think that
any ski school can afford such a schedule to ANY one instructor, and I
don't even believe that ANY ski school has that kind of business.

You don't know that ANY ski resort's main business come in waves, like
now christmas/new year holidays, then almost dead clam after jan 2nd,
and won't see them again until president's week, and etc.?


Now, remember what they do to beginning instructors. They
might just give you a class with thirty newbies. Especially if
you don't whine. Why would you? You have the magic turns
system. 20 beginners today? SURE!!!!

How many of them do parallel turn the first day was the question, and
how many of them can do the same thing the next day is the next.


Then, remember, nobody wants to teach beginners.

I did, because I wanted the head counts (which they paid two bucks a
head), and I had the most head in that season.

Most
instructors are "too good" for that. Then, supposing you work
for a night skiing resort. That would be *three* classes a day,
maybe

On some busy days I taught three classes, but only one day had a full
head count (30).

4. Supposing you teach for a program? Lots of
numbers. Lots of them.

The question was where those "lots of them," that is, "thousands of
first time skiers who learned a parallel turn in two hours say
differently" come from.


*Then*....remember what you can do if you have a bunny
berm. You can take an entire Boy Scout Troop, or the
entire sixth grade class of an elementary school in one group.
And you can go have coffee while they learn. Which they will.

One person can do it all. Tens of students, maybe even
hundreds. Add to that, I've been teaching since maybe 1996
or 1997. I could have *easily* done it myself, but I'm not
alone.

"thousands of first time skiers who learned a parallel turn in two
hours say differently" remains an open question.


Forget about me and add up all the people that have
learned from the major resorts that use magic turns.

"Major resorts"? they didn't tell you "don't teach them in two lessons
if you can do it in three"?


Several NW resorts are using various beginner progressions
that involve initiating with a wedge and picking up the tail of
the inside ski while leaving the tip on the snow. No years in
the wedge, basically direct to parallel. This is at least the fourth
year of it.

Teaching methods come and go, it all began with GLM, or Gradual Length
Method, heard about it? no? It died, nonetheless, the snowplow/wedge
survived.


I did not invent the Magic Turns terminology.

Too many terminology.


Thousands is not a stretch at all. Millions? Maybe not yet, but
it won't take long. Just like Mc Donalds. Over ? billion served.

However, this isn't really the intent of the thread, do you have
some technical comments on the progression itself?

The technical info is good, but quite lack of touch with the
reality/students; when they sat on their heels, and you asked them to
bring the inside ski "tail" up? Didn't you see them frowned on you,
HOW?


IS