boarding the really steep stuff

The top of the highest peak at Mammoth has some insanely steep runs (the
Cornice, Scotty's Run, etc.)--they feel like they're 80 percent grades, but
I'm sure that's just my imagination. Here's the problem: Each time I start
riding one of them my heel edge washes out and I wind up sliding down the
slope (lost some skin on my back on an icy day--great fun). Is it just
operator error, or are boarders at a disadvantage on extremely steep terrain
(the vast majority of people on this part of the mountain are skiers)? More
important, can anyone offer suggestions on technique?

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 07:38:42 GMT, "msegal"
allegedly wrote:

Here's the problem: Each time I start
riding one of them my heel edge washes out and I wind up sliding down
the slope (lost some skin on my back on an icy day--great fun). Is it
just operator error,

It's possible it's down to your technique, but look at other things
first. Is it only icy stuff that you wash out on, or does it happen on
packed powder as well? If the former, then check your edges are razor
sharp. If the latter then have a look at your heel edge overhang. Do
the bindings hang over the heel edge by such a degree that they are
making contact with the snow and lifting the edge off the ground?

or are boarders at a disadvantage on extremely
steep terrain (the vast majority of people on this part of the
mountain are skiers)?

Certainly not. Although it's worth noting that on things like the
Verbier and Alaska extreme comps that a lot of the riders are in hard
boots to give better control and minimise overhang.

More important, can anyone offer suggestions on technique?

Personally I have very little to no overhang and I can comfortably ride
in excess of 55 degree slopes in packed powder. If it were icy I don't
think I'd bother because it wouldn't be much fun - or I'd be too scared


Making your turns flow is down to confidence and technique, but you need
to first make sure that board can hold an edge on both rails.

- Dave.

--
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http://www.vpas.org/ - Snowboarding the worlds pow pow -
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"msegal" wrote in message
...
Here's the problem: Each time I start
riding one of them my heel edge washes out and I wind up sliding down

Definitely make sure your edges are sharp - buy a $15 edging tool and carry
it in your pocket if needs be, but also check your technique.

It goes without saying that you need to get really low with all your weight
over your edge but if do you start to loose the heel edge or slide the
natural tendency is to straighten your legs and push on your edge to try and
regain traction. This will just make you slide faster, instead try and sink
into the board bending your knees as this will stop the slide and at least
let you get up and try again instead of sliding all the way down.

Luke


-------------------------
http://www.snowgo.com

Baka Dasai wrote:

You're not alone in finding heelside turns on steep icy slopes
difficult. I'd say that about 99.99% of snowboarders are in the same
boat, and I'm yet to meet anybody in the 0.01%.

Also, define really steep. If it's steeper than a tough black diamond
run in a western resort (ie more than 30 degrees) it becomes more and
more difficult to carve. On really steep stuff (45+), jump turns is
about all you can do. If it's icy, erm... don't go there? I think
skiers have a huge advantage there with two edges and some poles.

Neil

More
important, can anyone offer suggestions on technique?


All good responses above!

Here is a progressive technique to get comfortable on steeps using jump
turns.

Start my doing exaggerated jump turns the whole way down. Jump turns
get you to come around really quick, so that you gain no speed by coming
around down the fall line, and there is a natural tendency to flex
deeply at the knees as you land the jump with checks your speed further.
Jump turns are easier on steeps than flats, but doing a long steep run
with all jump turns will take some endurance.

When you've got that down, jump less. Don;t jump enough such that the
board leaves the snow. This should take a little less energy, but the
muscle memory from the exaggerated turns will help you get it around
quickly and flex deep at the knees on landing, so you'll still check
your speed effectively.

Progressively jump less and less until you are not really jumping, but
just pushing off the tail into your next turn, whipping it around fast
and then flexing at the knees to continue to check speed.

Starting from the jump turn, as opposed to just riding "normally",
builds muscle memory for what you need to check speed, as well as
developing more confidence that you can tackle steeps and also giving
you a "way out" if you get in trouble later.

On packed powder or corn, I can descend pretty much anything at a
crawling pace just by pushing off the tail into each turn. On ice, I
need to throw in a hard jump turn every few turns still.

Remember, this is a means to an end and not an end into itself. Once
you've got more steeps mileage you'll just do them without thinking
about it... here's a way to get mileage without hurting yourself!

Mike T

I agree. Sharp edges are of course key, and definitely check to make
sure your heel and/or the heel cup of your binding is not hanging over
your heel edge. Personally I tend to get overobsessed with reducing
my toe drag sometimes to the point where I give myself heel drag
instead, which is equally annoying. So just try to make sure your
foot is as centered as possible. If you have a narrow board and big
feet you can also try angling the bindings a bit.

Chris Stringer
RDCShop.com Online Board Shop
Bend Ski and Board Sport
1009 NW Galveston
Bend, OR 97701
Email:
Web: http://www.rdcshop.com
Toll Free Phone: 1.877.BEND.SKI

"Mike T" wrote in message .. .

On packed powder or corn, I can descend pretty much anything at a
crawling pace just by pushing off the tail into each turn. On ice, I
need to throw in a hard jump turn every few turns still.


Mike...what is your board angle like at the apex of each turn? Guess
i'm asking how far you get away from the fall line to control your
speed so well. ("...crawling pace...")

Like msegal, I also run into problems controlling my speed on really
steep slopes. If it is too long to straight line, and too narrow for
wide S turns, I'll sometimes sideslip more than I want to in order to
control speed. Deep powder of course is no problem...no fear.

-todd

Mike...what is your board angle like at the apex of each turn? Guess
i'm asking how far you get away from the fall line to control your
speed so well. ("...crawling pace...")

I don't stray very far from the fall line... but I do make turns as
quickly as I can. At least that's what I do in softies.

I'm having to go through this learning process all over again when I'm
on plates! I've been doing a lot of freeriding off the groomed runs on
my Axis 172 and hard boots, and it wants to run downhill a lot sooner
and faster than my softie gear. It's practice, practice, practice!

Mike T

"Mike T" wrote in message .. .
Start my doing exaggerated jump turns the whole way down.

Excellent advice Mike. I would stress the "exaggerated" part.
Same can be applied to learning several other things such as
air rotation (exaggerating throwing of upper body), and bumps
(exaggerating bending knees). Once the technique is down,
the exaggerated movement can be tuned down to just whatever is
necessary.

Mike T wrote:

I don't stray very far from the fall line... but I do make turns as
quickly as I can. At least that's what I do in softies.

Just a couple of things to add/emphasise.
1) As Mike and others say: keep making the turns. If you start side
slipping heelside it can be very difficult to stop slipping - the best
thing is to make a turn (and then another). Making the turn drives the
new edge into the snow.

2) Another way to reach a similar end point to Mike's smaller jump turns
progression (but from the opposite direction) is this. When you make
your turn, focus on 2 things: weighting the front of the board on the
new edge and getting low. To do this you'll need to sink down over your
front foot, bending/flexing your front knee and hip, and rotating your
hips in the direction of the turn to engage the new edge. Practice it
slowly on gentle and then steeper slopes. When you really commit to the
front of the new edge you'll be amazed at how quickly and smoothly you
turn with minimum effort.
Interestingly it can be tougher to initiate toeside turns than heelside
in this way because for the toeside you need to push your weight forward
down the mountain and then turn your back on the drop - difficult if
you're scared of the drop - you'd rather keep it in view and hug the
mountain. I used to have a real barrier with this. It's rewarding when
you can do it though - a feeling of great control.
Once you've got it, speed it all up and you'll be doing something simlar
to Mike's suggestion!

--
IainD at ukme dot me dot uk